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Author Topic: Does Fantsy exist in 40k?  (Read 14340 times)

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Offline Adamant

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Does Fantsy exist in 40k?
« on: July 17, 2005, 12:52:26 AM »
Hi everyone

I was wondering if the world where warhammer fantasy takes place on exists in the 40k universe.

If that isnt true then my theory is that one of the races in fantasy conquered that world after space travel was invented and the rest of the races fled the planet after that.  For example if the humans united and won the rest of the races fled the planet in rudimentary spaceships and founded new homes.



Offline Irandrura

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Re: Does Fantsy exist in 40k?
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2005, 01:42:13 AM »
There are some theories about that, some good, some not so good.

One of the strongest pieces of evidence is the treasure from Albion, which was clearly a bunch of 40k weapons. A Power Fist, a Flamer, Power Armour, a few others.
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Offline Hoomberdang

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Re: Does Fantsy exist in 40k?
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2005, 03:36:22 AM »
There are some theories that say that the fantasy world is Terra in the future, I don't think that that is very believable though. Personally I don't think that there is a link between the two.

Offline Wurzelmaniac

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Re: Does Fantsy exist in 40k?
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2005, 08:32:21 AM »
Originally FB was on a world in the EoT which could make Sigmar and Be'lakor the missing Primarchs.

Now there's nothing official so they are meant to be seperate. The discovery of Power Armour, Hand Flamer, Conversion Field, Auspex, Force rod, Powerfist, Lightning Claw and a few other bitz along with a quote in the rulebook about the wider galaxy are pretty good hints though.
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Offline rax

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Re: Does Fantsy exist in 40k?
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2005, 09:57:36 AM »
The discovery of Power Armour, Hand Flamer, Conversion Field, Auspex, Force rod, Powerfist, Lightning Claw and a few other bitz...

I see this stuff used often here on the boards to 'prove' that the WFB world exists in the 40k universe (note: I'm not accusing you of doing so, Wurzelmaniac). Is there any particular reason this couldn't just be the campaign designers having a bit of fun? The items above aren't actually called by their 40k names in any materials I've read, so perhaps the designers were just using 40k items as a source of inspiration?

Personally I don't see any point in trying to connect the two. The WFB world came first, after all, and 40k was just GW's attempt to use their established system and armies in a sci-fi setting. They don't need to be connected, they just happen to be two similar game systems incorporating the same armies to maximise fun for players and profit for GW.


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Offline Necromortis

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Re: Does Fantsy exist in 40k?
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2005, 03:56:10 PM »
Actually, my theory is that Fantasy is the world after 40k, after eveyone has decimated eachother, and a whole bunch of technology is lost.  Either that, or the Fantasy world is a world in the Eye of Terror (I think it used to be), which would make sense.

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Offline Wurzelmaniac

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Re: Does Fantsy exist in 40k?
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2005, 05:54:31 PM »
I'm merely saying that the hints are pretty damn big. Of course there's some pretty impressive Fimir and Fishmen references lying around too (fimir in WD in the big Skaven aricle from recently, Fishmen in the Lizzie book) so it's probably just GW screwing around.
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Offline twilight_reaver

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Re: Does Fantsy exist in 40k?
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2005, 01:44:12 AM »
I'd say that fantasy is somewhere in 40k, but they'll never seriously interact, and there's no way to prove anything.

If I recall I read somewhere that in the chaotica libera nurgle that some fantasy sorceror saw visions of nurgle space marines and went on to rant that he would never fear the chaos on the fantasy world again after the terror of thinking someday chaos space marines would decend upon them.

Just imagine if 40k did invade though...


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Offline Adamant

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Re: Does Fantsy exist in 40k?
« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2005, 03:28:08 AM »
that would be hilarious

the dwarfs would slaughter all the marines (Chaos and Space)  so noone would be annoyed by them anymore

Also i was reading the fluff section of the new rulebook and i saw a drawing of a "Slanni"  what looked like an athletic Slann Mage.

Whats up with that?  ???
« Last Edit: July 18, 2005, 03:31:00 AM by Adamant »


Offline johhny-turbo

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Re: Does Fantsy exist in 40k?
« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2005, 04:15:41 AM »
I'd say that fantasy is somewhere in 40k, but they'll never seriously interact, and there's no way to prove anything.

If I recall I read somewhere that in the chaotica libera nurgle that some fantasy sorceror saw visions of nurgle space marines and went on to rant that he would never fear the chaos on the fantasy world again after the terror of thinking someday chaos space marines would decend upon them.

Just imagine if 40k did invade though...


I've seen people actualy modify the rules for each game and then play WFB and 40k agaisnt each other,

WHB is allowed to have twice the number of points as 40k since 40ks shooting emphasis gives it a big advantage (basicly 40k in a 40k vs. WHB battle is like the DA)
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Offline rax

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Re: Does Fantsy exist in 40k?
« Reply #10 on: July 18, 2005, 07:44:55 AM »
Also i was reading the fluff section of the new rulebook and i saw a drawing of a "Slanni"  what looked like an athletic Slann Mage.

Whats up with that?  ???

Alright, bear with me...

"Once upon a time, in the grim dark days of the 1980s, there was a game called Warhammer Fantasy Battle. This game was based upon the premise that armies of various common fantasy races, all inhabiting a fictitious game universe known as 'the Old World', would line up and do battle against one another. One of these races was the Slann, the weakened descendants of the Old Ones, a catch-all predecessor race with great power in the game universe.

The Slann were a race of toad-like beings with clear Aztec/Incan references. As armies go, however, they were poorly supported with models and fluff, and indeed, their fluff mutated over time. Thus, in the course of the '80s and '90s, they went from an army of fighting frogs with drugged human slaves to fat, sometimes mummified, ultra-mages served by hordes of lizardmen. And they were no longer actual descendants of the Old Ones, more like a servitor race (IIRC).

Moving back to the 1980s, game designer Rick Priestley had an inspirational moment and came up with a radical new idea: "Hey guys," he said to his mates at GW, "Why not take all these cool fantasy armies and put them in a sci-fi setting? We could give them guns and call the game something cool, like...like 'Warhammer 40,000 - Rogue Trader'. Wouldn't that be totally nifty?"

So it was that in 1987, Warhammer 40,000 - Rogue Trader, a skirmish game using the same races as in WFB saw the light of day. Of course, some of these races had changed slightly to make the game less like its predecessor, having gained different background stories and cultural outlooks. Thus, Orcs were no longer Orcs, but Orks; Dwarves were human mutants called Squats; Elves became the Eldar and instead of being noble good guys, were psychotic mercenaries and pirates, notorious for turning on their employers at the drop of a hat.

Naturally, the Slann were also transferred into this setting, complete with their Aztec-style society. They fought in random warbands as a means of broadening their minds (apparently just travel isn't enough in 40k! ;D), and were clearly identical to the Old Ones of the Old World. Hence, athletic fighting frogs with guns, instead of spears, but still with feathered headdresses.

Time marches ever onward, however, and the Slann were once again poorly supported by fluff and models, only this time in 40k. The common origins of the race-armies in WFB and WH40k were lost in the murky recesses of GWs staff writers' minds, and so the Slann in WFB evolved into the fat froggies we know and love today, while the Slann in 40k were essentially forgotten, with only the occasional mention of the Old Ones to remind those in the know of the faded glories of the 40k Slann."

And that's what you're seeing in the new rulebook - a 40k Slann as they looked in 1987. Here endeth the lesson.


Cheers - Rax
« Last Edit: July 18, 2005, 07:48:24 AM by rax »
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Offline Bob the hungry hobo

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Re: Does Fantsy exist in 40k?
« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2005, 09:00:24 AM »
I think Necro has the right idea. Races seem to be connected in each game.

Empire/Bretonnians - Imperials
Orcs.
High/Wood elves - Eldar. (mention of Khaine in both games)
Dark Elves - Dark Eldar.
Chaos.
Dwarfs - Stunties.
Lizardmen - Old Ones (enemies of the C'Tan)
I also think there were Space Skaven or something similar as well.

Just a theory I believe!

Offline johhny-turbo

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Re: Does Fantsy exist in 40k?
« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2005, 04:25:02 PM »
I think Necro has the right idea. Races seem to be connected in each game.

Empire/Bretonnians - Imperials
Orcs.
High/Wood elves - Eldar. (mention of Khaine in both games)
Dark Elves - Dark Eldar.
Chaos.
Dwarfs - Stunties.
Lizardmen - Old Ones (enemies of the C'Tan)
I also think there were Space Skaven or something similar as well.
Just a theory I believe!


Their called the Hrud, though they look like rats and enjoy burrowing underground they are much different from the Skaven, they dont want to spread diesese or anything but are apprently rather friendly and are shrewd merchents
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Offline twilight_reaver

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Re: Does Fantsy exist in 40k?
« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2005, 06:49:13 PM »
Skaven could have been Hrud that were horribly mutilated by chaos.  Maybe.


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Offline Battle Armour

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Re: Does Fantsy exist in 40k?
« Reply #14 on: July 20, 2005, 08:25:45 PM »
Could the world be some forgotten world in the 40k universe?
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Offline Gladewalker

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Re: Does Fantsy exist in 40k?
« Reply #15 on: July 21, 2005, 09:14:16 AM »
We've done scenarios (mini campaigns) where WHFB and 40K fought. It was actually really fun! It's not all that hard to take the 40K equipment and use skirmish rules from Fantasy. The other way works too I suppose in a limited way (fantasy troops are like Cultists and Conscripts, etc) However, I think WHFB has a better overall rules system, especially considering armor saves and shooting.

That'd make a neat campaign if anyone was up for it. Not sure how we'd run it but it'd be something different that's for sure! Maybe use the new rules for GW's campaign in WD on Lustria? There are valid reasons for any 40K race to BE there.
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Offline Zzarchov

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Re: Does Fantsy exist in 40k?
« Reply #16 on: July 31, 2005, 06:57:17 PM »
I always thought  WFB world might just be a planet in W40K cut off by a warpstorm.  There used to be some fluff where there was a group of Eldar who resettled planets and lived a primitive existence (Exodites).   All the races in WFB could just be other races who got stranded on the planet.

  Or they could just be non-related but similar as an inside joke or a way to share models.

Offline twilight_reaver

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Re: Does Fantsy exist in 40k?
« Reply #17 on: July 31, 2005, 11:09:19 PM »
We've done scenarios (mini campaigns) where WHFB and 40K fought. It was actually really fun! It's not all that hard to take the 40K equipment and use skirmish rules from Fantasy. The other way works too I suppose in a limited way (fantasy troops are like Cultists and Conscripts, etc) However, I think WHFB has a better overall rules system, especially considering armor saves and shooting.

That'd make a neat campaign if anyone was up for it. Not sure how we'd run it but it'd be something different that's for sure! Maybe use the new rules for GW's campaign in WD on Lustria? There are valid reasons for any 40K race to BE there.


Urgh I've tried to design a fully integratable rule set but magic and CC make it really hard.


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Offline Rasmus

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Re: Does Fantsy exist in 40k?
« Reply #18 on: August 1, 2005, 02:57:58 AM »
Since this comes up every so often I thought it warranted a sticky.

Now, for some of the older fluff.
Fantasy and 40k used to have a common rulebase in teh old Warhammer siege-books, allowing you to intermix the two sets of rules. "How many fireballs can a dreadnoguht withstand?" "How does bolters affect magical armour?" and so on. This is not separated, but as said previously; the treasures of Albion point that there is still a link of a kind. What is clear, however, is that Fantasy Battles happens after 40k. As far as I can make out, the timeline for the games are as such.

  • BFG - a few years before the end of the M41
  • 40k, Epic, Necromunda, Gorkamorka - end of M41. This era ends in a cataclysmic battle the Eldar call Rhana Dandra where order is pitted against Chaos and most things die. The outcome is unknown.
  • Fantasy battles, Manowar, Mordheim, Warmaster - on some remote planet the things start over. Surviving Old Ones (or possibly Harlequins impersonating them) teach out some basic magic (psychic skills) and then leave the world after som disaster. This era ends in some climactic "final battle" as well.
  • Dark future - out of this battle rises a civilisation much like that of earth, which then crumbles and falls. This game is long gone now.
  • Bloodbowl - if you read the intro in the 1st edition of the game it is fairly clear that the people rediscover civilisation in the ruins of the old one, and this has to be the ruins of Dark Future.
There the timeline ends.

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Offline Zzarchov

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Re: Does Fantsy exist in 40k?
« Reply #19 on: August 1, 2005, 11:42:50 PM »
Bloodbowl can never be considered serious though,  the joke about "nuffle" (NFL) is just a football jokes,  the whole concept of Bloodbowl is just a big gag to justify the fun of the game (Which i own, its hilarious)

 


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