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Offline Ibushi

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GT list to think on
« on: July 28, 2015, 06:01:21 PM »
Toying with list ideas for a big GT event I'm going to in about a month, thoughts on this one?:

CAD

Farseer - jetbike, spirit stone
3 Scatbikes
3 Scatbikes
3 Jetbikes + 1 Warlock

Wraithknight - 2 D cannons, 1 starcannon

Void Shield Generator - 3x shields

Avenger Host
10 Dire Avengers
Wave Serpent - BL
10 Dire Avengers
Wave Serpent - BL
5 Dire Avengers

Aspect Host
8 Warp Spiders + Exarch
5 Swooping Hawks + Exarch
5 Fire Dragons + Exarch
Wave Serpent - BL

> Concept is that the aspect warriors in serpents line up along the edge of the void shields, with the bikes behind.
> courtesy to DCannon4Life for the "BLs for tanks, guardians as a blender" idea, but instead using dire avengers.
> 30 BS5 bladestorm shots at 18" with a battle focus run away makes for a really horrible alpha-beta-gamma-whenever strike against pretty much any target except vehicles.
> Farseer hangs with the jetbikes+warlock jumping up, casting powers, and turbo-boosting away.
> Warlock is mostly for his Reveal power against Nurgle daemons or anyone else with shrouding (tyranids, be'lakor, etc.), but sometimes his other power is useful too.
> Swooping Hawks are a backfield distraction unit that can also threaten land raiders, basilisks, fortifications, etc. While the warp spiders target key enemy units, like command squads, riptides, etc. and zip around being annoying.

One thing I really like about the new eldar is the BS5 aspects -- they really do their job, and they don't need any psychic support really. Plus BS5 on the wave serpents for when they blow their serpent shield is really nasty. Last game I rolled 8/8 and 6/7 hits for those.

For an army name, I would be tempted to call this the "Croneworld Blender", or maybe the "Mon-Keigh Juicer"

Thanks for looking!
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Offline Lyonic

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Re: GT list to think on
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2015, 07:44:16 PM »
How are you getting bs 5 on serpents? I feel if u are taking void u should be protecting something stationary and this is quite mobile. I do like the mix of aspects it will give you loads of utility. Consider 6 hawks for the big template. Not sure i like the warlock with the rubbish unit of bikes

Offline Ibushi

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Re: GT list to think on
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2015, 07:58:26 PM »
Cheers, thanks for the feedback.

Void shield is mostly to help prevent the army being crippled by first turn shooting, especially if there isn't enough terrain to hide behind.. Am still on the fence about this one, but it seems really useful for the points.

Swooping hawks on the other hand, I used to always play with 6, but honestly the big blast never helped in any of my games.

With the jetbikes, my plan is to attach the warlord farseer, move them forwards 12", cast psychic powers, then turbo-boost them behind cover pretty much every turn. Good luck getting Slay the Warlord. Then late game they can split up for objectives etc.


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Offline Lyonic

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Re: GT list to think on
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2015, 09:57:08 PM »
Ah right, yeah that sounds like a good idea with the bikes. A 2 up jink with 3 spare wounds should keep your psychic going.

i noticed you didn't stick an exarch in the avengers. Formation says u need 1 i think :s

you have alot of nice shooting in this list but you do lack any cqc models. Might you be tempted to grab a glaive? I use wraithguard with 36" threat bubble in my list so ive always found the 2 d shots underwhelming considering standard wraithguard have the same weapon.

you don't really have any anti air but if you come across some armour 10 and u can, throw a doom on it and the avengers with guide should down it. That 1 turn assault 3 is handy! What points are you playing btw?

Offline Ibushi

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Re: GT list to think on
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2015, 03:00:12 PM »
Avenger formation says "only 1 may be upgraded to Exarch", not required like the aspect host. Good one to look out for, as DA exarchs are not very useful.

Really tempted to go with the glaive on the WK, but my thinking and experience is this:

a) if WK can beat your army with wraithstomps, i dont need the glaive anyway
b) if you have enough CC elements for me to want a glaive, you will probably kill my WK either way, so better to shoot you up some more
c) WK hangs out midfield to control objectives and create huge area denial most of the time, so he may as well be shooting. Don't fancy the suncannon, so its the D.

Ideally I would have the 2x D and 2x SL, but didnt have the points for the full kit, yet had 5 left over so i picked up the starcannon for a bit of AP2.

Mostly I've found the WK is most effective is turns 4-7 at tearing up the enemy in combat, but I like to keep mine back in cover to absorb shooting and influence my opponent's movement etc. during turns 1-3.

How do you play your WK?
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Offline Lyonic

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Re: GT list to think on
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2015, 03:20:00 PM »
In my list he is there to support my hq unit. When i throw 3 units on 5 wguard into the enemy deployment line, the first thing they usually try todo is charge it something i didn't kill. This suits  me fine because turn 1 my knight moves 18", then turn 2 another 12" to get i to posisiton to bail out my hq unit. After that it pretty much becomes a rampaging unit that hammers into anything i want. Its sucha good unit and if you do the math, its wasted so much at the back. 300pts for 2 d shots ... Is .. Cant believe in saying this... Rubbish. His power is in combat, 1 hammer of wrath, 5 attacks on the charge all re-rolling because of the spirit seer  he causes fear, blind and can stomp.

its not even a contest. It also puts something in my enemies face which is awsome because it takes fire away from squishy units like the other 2 wguard or the wlord

Offline Ibushi

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Re: GT list to think on
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2015, 05:14:10 PM »
That makes sense with your WK, he would be a real beatstick in such an aggressive list.

Partly why it works is the same idea: you shoot some key stuff to death first, then send in the WK as a 2nd wave and cleanup.

In the above list, you'll notice that the first wave is not as aggressive or as T1-2 heavy, otherwise the tactic is the same.

Likewise, you're not paying 300pts for 2 D shots, you're buying a beat stick unit that can do all kinds of things, with or without a glaive.
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Offline Lyonic

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Re: GT list to think on
« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2015, 08:22:09 PM »
I hear you man. I do play very aggressively with my list but only because i have to. If i don't kill stuff turn 1 or 2 its gg. My list relies tabling my opponent whereas you seem more passive. Taking opportunities as they present themselves knowing you have utility if you need it. You will need to let me know how you get on :)

Offline Ibushi

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Re: GT list to think on
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2015, 12:48:31 PM »
Quick update for Lyonic and those viewing -- decided not to go with the DA since they are so ineffectual against vehicles.

Final GT list I'm working on:

Farseer w/ jetbike, stones

5 D-guard
Serpent w/ Holo-Fields

10 Guardians
3x3 Scatbikes
2x3 Jetbikes

5 Hawks

Falcon w/ BL

Wraithknight w/ sword + 1x SL

Aspect Host:
8x Warp Spiders + Exarch
5x Fire Dragons + Exarch
4x Dark Reapers + Exarch - starshot


In terms of tactics, it is not as aggressive you might like to play Lyonic, and it certainly would enjoy playing your list.

Took the boys down to another 1850 ITC tournament and tabled 2 opponents then had the 4th concede T4, but got lucky with matchups, playing a Decurion and then 2x Thundercav, which I love. Got to play against some nasty stuff though, namely the Decurion Destroyer Cult (damn, so tough), a Culexus in drop pod (sorry Farseer), and the Skyhammer + Librarius Conclave + Thundercav -- yowzers, the beatstick action.

If there's interest I'll write the reports up, but basically having the classic style MSU + speed Eldar force was both fun and brutally effective, but there's tactics involved. Loved the curbstomp wraithknight too, will be trying him out again.

Cheers
Ibushi
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Offline Cavalier

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Re: GT list to think on
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2015, 08:59:45 AM »
Very interesting list Ibushi. Was the 1st list the one your brought to the tournament? Because I run something similar and I've had a ton of success with it (big squads of DA's always reward me). I am skeptical about the second list though as rolling with small units always seems to punish me, especially in the troops dept. I'm definitely interested in some bat-reps. Cheers on the success! The Destroyer Cult is hard as hell, and I can only imagine how difficult Skyhammer is to deal with as I've not played against it yet. Way to go!
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Offline Ibushi

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Re: GT list to think on
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2015, 12:01:25 PM »
Thanks Cav, I will polish up my notes and get a batrep for ya then! No pictures unfortunately.

Went with the second list, actually for the same reason you mentioned -- too light on the troops dept. Yes the first list has a boatload of Dire Avengers, but in the Aspect Host they don't have obsec which is a big drawback.

If I had a chance to get in more practice games before the GTs then I would definitely try out the shuriken blender list first, but as it is I'm sticking with what is more comfortable and which doesn't require as much painting...

As it was, I hear you that the squads are small and the troops are light, but one of the great powers of the MSU list is its ability to hide and shift like the wind, so getting your hands on your target is tough. Terrain helps a lot, but all the tournaments have at least some BLOS terrain, so I dropped the VSG.

Let's see, Game 1 against Decurion + Destroyers was something like this:

Zahndrek + friends in a 20 warrior blob
Canoptek Harvest
Tomb Blades
Destroyer Cult (3x3 Destroyers, Destroyer Lord w/ Warscythe, Orb)
Orikan the Diviner
Nightscythe + Immortals

Mission was Purge the Alien plus Maelstrom with 3 objs, Vanguard deployment. Necrons take first turn, and deploy centrally in a phalanx, but mostly behind a large BLOS terrain feature centre-board. The table basically has a huge canyon feature smack in the middle, which you need a lot of elevation to see over, but is pretty empty surrounding that.

Eldar deploy in a similar phalanx, serpent up front, WK in middle, jetbikes behind, guardians on the right flank in a crater. Aspect warriors are all out of LOS behind rock outcrops, jetbikes are all out of range, almost on the board edge. One squad of shuriken jetbikes placed in reserve (never again!).

T1 Necrons

Necrons move forward and take a few shots, glancing the D-guard serpent once. Destroyer lord hops on a central objective, and Spyder produces a scarab base. Two destroyer squads start to flank far right and take out a couple of guardians at max range. Third destroyer squad moves up to screen the spyder. Thanks to Decurion Everliving and character bonuses, the Phalanx enjoys a whole range of defensive bonuses in a bubble around the spyder/warriors. That’s going to be a tough nut to crack.
= 2 guardians dead, 1 HP off serpent

T1 Eldar

Fortunately Tanaka brought his nutcracker -- he never leaves home without one anymore! Eldar forces shift a few inches left around the central cliffs, while Warp Spiders making a 13” jump forwards into the teeth of the implacable robots (just a few inches back from the scarabs and destroyers). Release the Nutcracker! When the dust clears, two destroyers are dead, and the exposed Spyder falls to scatbike fire on its last armour save. Warp Spiders then double out all of the scarab bases with their high strength weaponry and jet pack away to the left as bait. Meanwhile shuriken jetbikes boost up to get a Maelstrom objective just in front of the Wraiths, claiming is as we are on the bottom of the Turn, and also acting as charge bait to set up a stompy counter-assault.

= spyder & scarabs destroyed, 2x destroyers killed on left

In the assault phase, one squad of scatbikes makes a low jetbike move and lands in a forest -- they promptly fail a DT, lose one member, fail their LD check, and run 13" to take them right off the board. Free KP to the Crons! Not going to put jetbikes in forests anymore...

 T2 Necrons

The phalanx continues to shift forwards, the Wraiths jumping up to charge some jetbikes, and the two rightmost destroyer squads continuing to flank, now joined by the Tomb Blades. Down the left flank a Night Scythe comes screaming on to target the scatbikes.

Shooting sees gauss blaster and cannon shots cleave through Eldar Holo-Fields like butter, quickly glancing the Wave Serpent to death despite jinking (made a single save), and spilling Wraithguard onto the battlefield. Destroyers now no longer needed to shoot the Serpent are able to open up on the Dark Reapers, leaving only the Exarch standing with 1 wound. On the left, a unit of scatbikes fares much better as only one rider is killed after armour saves.

Wraiths then take some Overwatch but successfully obliterate a unit of jetbikes in close combat, choosing not to multi-charge the Warp Spiders who were also in range.

Quite a successful turn for the Necrons, one wound short of 4 KP…

Turn 2 Eldar

…but the Eldar are still at full fighting force. Fire Dragons leap from the Falcon to shoot at the Night Scythe, causing it to jink but failing to bring the sinister pastry down. Scatbikes and reaper missiles eliminate a Destroyer squad on the right while the warp spiders take out two wraiths with a cloud of monofilament wire. Then the Wraithknight charges in and rips the tentacled nightmares asunder with his massive D weapon.
=Destroyers & Wraiths eliminated, Zahndrek+Warriors, Tomb Blades, Destroyers, Night Scythe & Immortals left.

Turn 3 Necrons

Going for the throat, the Night Scythe teleports a squad of immortals down to target the Eldar Warlord, while Zahndrek also teleports his phalanx across the field with a Veil of Darkness. Shooting is able to bring the Croneworld tyrant down to 1 wound while eliminating his entourage, but the Veil of Darkness mishaps and mysteriously relocates Zahndrek and his followers into a singularity somewhere. It was a fell mistake for the Necrons to visit this Croneworld it seems.

Losing the phalanx and failing to kill the Farseer or damage the Wraithknight pretty much seals the fate of the Necrons, and they end up getting tabled Turn 6.

Lessons learned: Don't put jetbikes in difficult terrain unless really necessary, and definitely don’t do it multiple times per turn by jumping out of and then back into a forest in different phases! Also the wraithknight with D-sword and Prescience is a boss, especially against tough units like Destroyer Lords – managed to KO the cron HQ in one hit.

MVP: Wraithknight for killing 3 units and putting the D in Destroyer Lord. 

Honourable Mention: Warp Spiders for running windsprints between the Eldar and Necron DZs and racking up points, while putting out lots of damage and being a huge distraction. Although the lone survivor did run off the table in the end.

Wooden Hammer: Tie between Swooping Hawks for causing no wounds in 3 rounds of shooting, and only doing one glance to a Night Scythe with 5 haywire attacks, and with the Guardians for putting three rounds of shooting into Destroyers for no wounds.

Opponent in this game was a real gent and handled himself really well, despite such a rough matchup and taking serious losses early on.

On to Game 2!

++

Game 2 vs Thundercav!

Oh what joy, Thundercav has to be one of my favourite matchups as the models are great, the tactics are simple, and the beatdowns are severe (whichever way it goes, there are a lot of bodies!), plus I find that the people who play thundercav are usually just a lot of fun.

Mission is Scouring in Hammer and Anvil Deployment, Space Wolves go first.

Deployment is pretty simple: unit of 5 thunderwolves on the left, unit of 5 thuderwolves + 10 dogs in the middle, unit of Long Fangs in backfield. In reserve: Culexus in a pod, SW Dreadnought with axe in a pod, and 2x 5 bloodclaws who failed to outflank.

Eldar pick up Conqueror of Cities in a ruin-heavy environment, and line up along the DZ line in some ruins. It is also Night Fight, although the Wolves only have the 4 missiles in terms of ranged attacks.

T1 Wolves

6! The Eldar Seize the Iniative!

This game was going to come down to who could inflict the most casualties first, so Eldar went for the Seize and succeeded for once. Everything moves into LOS of the wolves and fangs behind them, then opens up with lasers and missiles. Once the shards of power armour and marine gore settle to the ground, the Long Fangs and several wolves are dead (several little wolves plus 1 rider).  Shuriken jetbikes zip forwards to claim a maelstrom point and tease a long charge from the leftmost wolves, while the WK sits in cover 3” forwards, also asking for a long charge from the wolfstar unit. Guardians and jetbikes in the backfield spread out to screen against drop pods.

Turn 1 Wolves

The culexus comes screaming in and finds a spot right behind the Wraithknight, from whence he can lay the smackdown on the Eldar witch warlord himself.

Wolves come thundering forwards as they do, making me realize their charge range is quite far. Although the Wolf Lord splits off to go backwards and cap a home objective (or to run away from the Wraithknight maybe). On the left they only need 7” to hit the jetbikes, while in the middle the wolfstar needs a 9” with re-roll to hit the WK. In my head that was supposed to be a 10-11”, but hopefully he fails a 9” charge and the wraithmonster will hit them back. Or else they should kill the wraithknight hopefully in one round, and the D-guard will clean up what gets left over.

In the end, the small squad of thunderwolves manage to wipe out the jetbikes, taking one wound from overwatch, while the wolfstar are 1” short even with a re-roll, leaving them high and dry under the Wraithknight’s eyeless gaze.

In the middle, Psyker Assassin puts a number of nasty shots into the Farseer and his jetbike entourage, forcing them to jink and slaying 2 riders, while a psyk-out grenade causes the Eldar warlord to take a wound. Hopefully the guardians can take the Culexus down next turn, or the Warlord is going to be in some trouble.

Turn 2 Eldar

Warp Spiders and scatter lasers make light work of the 4 thunderwolves on the left, while D-scythes, reaper missiles, and a wraithknight charge completely obliterate the central wolfstar in a single bloody shooting phase and two rounds of combat. In the middle, jetbikes, swooping hawks, guardians, and the Farseer himself all pour shuriken and lasers into the Culexus, only putting through a single wound, and then the jetbikes fail a 5” charge. Was hoping to take him out with automatic hits from Hammer of Wrath, but oh well. Looks like the Assassin has some work he can yet do…

Turn 3 Wolves

Dreadnought comes in behind the Eldar and pops smoke.

Bloodclaws walk on from back board edge to sit on objectives, the Wolf Lord himself (who had split off from the Wolfstar to claim an objective earlier) skulks a little further behind cover to deny Slay the Warlord.

Culexus bounds forward, killing a few guardians with his animus speculum, and putting another Perils wound on the Farseer with his grenades. He then charges into the Guardian squad hiding the Farseer, taking a wound from Overwatch, and challenging the foul Eldar warlord to a duel. Never one to step down from a duel, Tanaka the Cannibal launches himself at the Culexus, or at least where he thought the Culexus was, only for everything to suddenly go purple. Enraged by the brazen lack of respect this upstart Mon-Keigh has, not even drawing his sword to face their mighty leader, but slapping him down bare-handed, the Guardians show him their contempt for the Imperium by unleashing their katanas upon the unsuspecting Culexus, horribly disemboweling him and pinning his writhing body to the ground.

Turn 3 Eldar

Filled with battle lust and incensed at the slaying of their leader, the Eldar quickly harvest the flesh of the remaining Astartes, keeping the twitching power-armoured bodies alive just enough to have feeling when they are eaten.

A particular prize is the entombed venerable dreadnought pilot, whose delicate tissue and wizened soul make for a most rewarding prize. Haywire grenades suitably disable the awkward machine so that this succulent treat is undamaged.

On the other side of the battlefield, the Wraithknight and Warp Spiders see the Wolf Lord coaxing his furry steed behind a ruin, with its tail between its legs. Unforgiving in his destruction of the enemy, the Wraithknight again annihilates the Lord’s squad, but has his legs unexpectedly chopped from beneath him in the process.

Displeased with the Wolf Lord’s dispatching of the Wraithknight, Warp Spiders finish the job, bringing the game to a close with the horrible death of this ancient Fenrisian warrior, his body being sliced to pieces much like his forces were under his command. On the right flank, Wraithguard disembark their wave serpent for a second time to eliminate the Blood Claws, leaving not a Wolf alive.

A total bloodbath of a game, with great cinematic moments. After that 6 to Seize, and with the initiative wholly and completely in the grasp of the Eldar, the Space Wolves simply couldn't catch a break.

Lesson Learned: with even just one ruin on the table, Conqueror of Cities is probably the best warlord trait for Eldar, as every vehicle and jetbike (or warp spider) can zip around without DT, and get great cover saves without having to jink. Ouch. Also Swooping Hawks did pretty well this game, putting a wound on the Culexus with weight of fire, and then taking out both a dreadnought and drop pod with haywire. I am liking the stock version of this unit more than the 6-man squad with Exarch, where I feel like they need to contribute more to the game to be worth it.  That extra 26 points just pushes me over the edge somehow.

MVP: Tie between the D-guard, Warp Spiders, and Wraithknight for each killing 2+ units. Warp Spiders did get the Warlord and survive the game though, so probably goes to these sneaky gits.

Honourable Mention: Definitely the Guardians for killing a Culexus in close combat!

Wooden Spoon: Farseer for falling on his sword, every single other unit contributed in this game haha.

Normally in tournaments I don't tend to table anyone, let alone two games in a row, but both have been really tough matchups for my opponents, and being forced to come right into my open arms to be greeted with spinny shuriken and rampant D-swords is always going to suck.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2015, 03:16:35 AM by Irisado »
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Re: GT list to think on
« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2015, 03:26:44 AM »
Ibushi: Thanks for the reports.  It's great to read how much you're enjoying playing the game and fielding your Eldar army :).  I had to edit your post a bit for stats, and the double post mod meant I had to split the content, and put it into this post here.  Please copy your content from my post into a new post after mine, and then I will delete it here.  Thank you :).

Quote
Game 3 (for all the marbles!) against Thundercav AGAIN

After hearing of the brutal destruction visited on their Chapter by Tanaka the Cannibal and his detestable cronies, the Space Wolves send out their A-team to try and get rid of Enemy#1 one more time:

Wolf Lord + Rune Priest + Thunderwolves
Grey Hunters in Drop Pod with melta

Librarius Conclave – 1x Bike, 2x jump pack, join the Thundercav

Skyhammer Force 2x10 Devs with las/missile, 2x5 Assault with flamers

Mission: Crusade, Dawn of War deployment, Eldar go first.

This table has tons and tons of ruins, and once again Tanaka brought his Conqueror of Cities trait, so that is looking good. Night Fight is also in effect, and the Eldar have turn 1 to put some laser punishment on the Wolfstar before they go Invisible.

Deployment sees the Eldar castle up in a 4-tiered ruin in the very left corner of the board, while Swooping Hawks sit tight on top of a Bastion with an objective in the centre of the Eldar DZ. Guardians string out between the two ruins, out in the open but a few inches from cover to move into first turn. Their job is to take up spaces where Skyhammer pods otherwise could come down, and to die valiantly as always.

The Wolves form a pack on the other side of a huge central ruin, hiding a servitor behind a bastion on an objective, and generally trying to stay out of LOS as best they can. Skyhammer is declared for T1 deployment.

Eldar Turn 1

Fighting against a Lord of War, the Wolves manage to roll a 5 to Seize, and take the Initiative they do!! This will be a fun game!

The Skyhammer pods come raining down, landing all across the board in a blaze of power armour and scatter dice. One devastator squad comes down opposite the Eldar castle, in the far left SW corner, with an assault squad just in front of them hiding behind a bastion. The other devastator squad comes down right in the middle of the board, landing in a ruin, with another assault squad just in front of them. The Grey Hunters drop down just to the right of the Swooping Hawk bastion, threatening that objective if they can scale the 6” terrain later. But almost every unit scatters 7" backwards, giving the Eldar a lot more breathing room than I was expecting.

In the shooting phase, 4 guardians died (most of them ended up being out of LOS of the devastators  due to ruined walls), and they were pinned by suppressing fire. Marines and Grey Hunters open up on the Hawks, but being so close and with such high battlements, they could only actually see one model (wings don’t count), which died.

Meanwhile the conclave+wolfstar powers up invisibility and bounds forward 15-16” after run moves.

Overall not a very impressive turn really, was expecting more. But against 2+ cover saves all round and given every Drop Pod scattered 7” backwards, it’s not that surprising either.

Eldar Turn 1 actually this time.

Utilizing Move Through Cover to jump-shoot-jump out of the ruins, the scatbikes take out the leftmost devastator squad to a man.  Reapers shoot into the rightmost devastator marines, taking out a few bolter-toters. Warp Spiders make a huge warp jump to slice up some assault marines in front of them, who go to ground and take 2 casualties. Falcon shoots into the rightmost assault marines, who also go to ground, but 1 dies.  Swooping Hawks throw a grenade into the Grey Hunters and actually kill 2, then battle focus backwards on the battlements to get out of LOS again. Likewise the Warp Spiders battle focus and jet pack move into the leftmost bastion to gain elevation and cover from the wolfstar.

Turn 2 Wolves

Grey Hunters move up a little bit, other marines are mostly pinned or shooting heavy weapons. Wolfstar moves up again, casting invisibility and getting into quite a threatening position, then the rune priest splits off to go after a scatbike squad that failed to jump back far enough, while the Wolf Lord goes after a jetbike squad on an objective to the left, and the thundercav hurdle into the Guardians. Devastator shooting forces the jetbikes to jink, and prevents them from firing overwatch due to the Skyhammer suppressing fusillade rules. Shooting is pretty ineffective, but assault chews up all three Eldar units -- the scatbikes, jetbikes, and guardians are all destroyed.

Turn 2 Eldar

Faced with three separate thunderwolf entities now, the Wraithknight is spoiled for choice – he decides to go straight for the Wolf Lord, and jumps over the Thunderwolves and intervening ruins, to land a tidy 6” away from the furry beatstick. D-guard deploy to get satisfying template hits on the invisible Thunderwolf unit (ITC rules that you hit Inivisble units with BS1, so templates are a go!), while scatbikes and aspect warriors reposition to shoot the rune priest and skyhammer marines. Warp Spiders again get an unholy jump, covering 17” with their warp jump alone, zig-zagging back past the Guardians to just beside the Hawks. The amount of table these guys can cover is absurd.

Shooting sees the Rune Priest laid low, more Grey Hunters taken down with plasma grenades, flashlights, and monofilament wire, and a wound or two put through on the Wolf Lord with shuriken catapults. After getting 15 hits with D-scythes the Wraithguard then surprisingly only manage to slay 2 thunderwolves after some exceptional 3++ rolling from the Wolf player.

In assault, the Wraithknight collects another head for his collection. Well, what is left of the Lord’s head is smeared between his fingers anyway.

Turn 3 Wolves

The Librarius Conclave splits up -- one jump pack librarian goes backwards to join the Devastators and cast Shriek on the Hawks, the bike librarian separates to set up a sacrificial charge into the Wraithguard, while the 3rd librarian stays with the wolves. Rolling on a 3+ now, the Conclave still is able to cast Invisibility with no threat of being Denied. Shriek rolls well from two different Librarians, one killing a wraithguard, and one killing all 4 Hawks. Drop Pod shooting manages to kill a shuriken jetbike on the far left, but they pass morale. The bike Librarian then declares a charge on the menacing wraith-constructs and is slain by Overwatch, while the big dogs make it in un-scythed and kill 3 d-guard for no casualties.

Turn 3 Eldar

At this point the Wolves have no hope of securing any objectives, as Aspect Warriors are able to clean up all the remaining skyhammer marines & grey hunters, while jetbikes can claim all of the objectives. Fire Dragons start popping Drop Pods, and the Wraithknight charges in to tie up the remaining Thunderwolves.

We call the game at this point and pack up our models as time is tight – a really rough matchup for the wolves with a ton of terrain granting the Eldar crazy cover save bonuses, while barely any blocked line of sight to his marines. A super opponent to play, with a beautiful army to boot, it was a lot of fun with several beers being flung about, but there was not much he could do other than hope for super hot dice.

If we played to the bitter end, there was no question of clearing out all the remaining models for a 3rd tabling, so full points to Eldar again.

Lesson Learned: ITC-invisibility is 100% vulnerable to D-scythes! The Skyhammer also isn’t as scary as it sounds at first. Bringing down 4 deep striking units really crowds the field, and they can easily get horrible scatter dice. If they all came in accurately, with aggressive placement and against exposed troops, you would be in for a bad time. But that is always the case in any deep strike situation.  Another thing I learned is that if the Devastators shoot bikes, you are pinned on a failed Ld test, but you can’t be pinned, so nothing happens. If you PASS the Ld check (on 3D6) then they can’t shoot Overwatch. In this game the bikes just happened to pass their Ld check at the wrong moment (as usual), otherwise they would have been able to overwatch the rune priest. Also I thought that this suppressing fusillade ability was only on the turn the Devastators arrive, but this is not true!! Every time they shoot, even as a single snap-shotting lascannon, you have to take those awful 3D6 tests -- so watch out for that!

MVP: Wraithknight for ganking the enemy warlord and being a menace, but also the Warp Spiders for zig-zagging all over the table and taking out 3 units of marines in 4 turns. If I had to choose another MVP aside from either of these two units, because they always get the award, it would be the scatbikes this time around, for putting ruinous amounts of wounds on marines.

Honourable Mention: Swooping Hawks for blasting half a Grey Hunters squad over 3 turns and being a pain until they were wiped by a nasty Shriek. 

Wooden Spoon: D-guard for only causing 3 wounds out of 15 hits, and then dying like chumps in combat for no wounds caused.

++
 
Overall, great tournament with a nice array of nasty lists and beautiful armies, captained by very friendly Portland (mostly) locals – was particularly great with the lovely brews downstairs on tap!

Reflections on the units taken this time around:

#1 Falcon:
Was great, loved him. Not quite as durable as a Wave Serpent, but much more killy (stats removed) is a really nice addition, especially with Guide for a consistent three hits if it's important. Putting him in a Ruin with Stealth and MtC was clutch, then dropping out the Dragons or picking up Guardians as needed was super useful. Will be keeping him for next time.

#2 Hawks:
Actually performed really well (for their bargain basement stock price). Previously it was a 6-man squad with Exarch and sun rifle, and that just was not worth the extra points. Would take these 5 birdmen over another squad of scatbikes for sure. Skyleap to Deep Strike for Table Quarters, Maelstrom, Linebreaker, whatever, is a nice trick, and mostly I just hold them back behind cover for jumping out and ganking vehicles or Flyers in mid-game, then keeping them hidden for objective grabbing late game. Seems the right strategy as their armour is pretty weak. Of course, jumping them forward to do something sacrificial like screen the WK from a nasty charge or bubble wrap an objective is always an option given their huge movement, so I'll keep them along for next time and hope this versatility pays off, because their shooting damage output is generally pitiful.

#3 Dark Reapers:
Hit or miss last tournament, this time I found the extra high strength shots were really useful, and actually used Starswarm a fair few times to good effect too. Being able to hide them first turn then pop out to shoot is great for resilience and they managed to survive 2/3 games so far. Will keep them in for now, and still at 4 man, not 3 like I had been experimenting with.

#4 Guardians:
Took them to Wet Coast GT, but was not totally sold on their role – truly this tournament was the Guardian Cup though, these guys were so useful!! In all three games they tanked damage that would have crippled jetbikes, and then ran around adding a wound here or there, but most importantly just taking up space. After playing against drop pods and seeing so many drop pod/deep strike lists, I will never underestimate the importance of simply taking up space on the table ever again. Having these guys instead of another unit of scats is completely fantastic, and when they do cause some damage or play an important role, it is that much better haha.

#5 Wraithknight with Sword:
Have been experimenting with the wraithcannons versus ghostglaive, and I am definitely a convert to the sword and board WK after this tournament. Practice games had him being pretty hit or miss, but combined with the principle of just “taking up space” as above, this guy is the perfect complement – he takes up tons of space, does not need to stress about shooting or getting LOS, can just hang out around objectives to threaten them, and against low-I enemies he can even Blind them. If there is a beatstick character around, show them the D and watch them run away crying. If there isn’t, well who cares? He will win you games without even killing anything, if you play him right.  With the wraithcannon version I’m always worried about getting the most out of the 2x D shots, casting Prescience and lining up clear LOS on tanks etc., but it very rarely was worth it in hindsight. Lastly, I did try him out with 2x SL, but the extra points are better spent elsewhere. 1x SL is enough for him to have some kind of impact and not just feel stupid, but not enough that you're worried about who to shoot at or trying to get shots off. Was very happy with 1x SL or maybe even 1x Starcannon.

++

That about sums it up for now – am super happy with how the list performed, and look forward to some more challenges with the Croneworld pointy ears soon.  Daemonkin sound like a fun matchup, as do Skitarii or the War Convocation. Battle Company could go either way, just with sheer volume of bodies, and would be a total bloodbath of course. These are all matchups I look forward to! Hopefully get to try these guys out against the Tau Firebase too, see if the Eldar shenanigans can stand up to raw weight of dice firepower.

Things I would change if I had the points:

+ take Holo-Fields on the Falcon to improve resilience, but can't quite bring myself to drop Farseer Spirit Stones to take it.
+ or could take 1 more Hawk for the large blast, but again I don't think it's worth dropping Spirit Stones off the Farseer really.

Edited for excessive stats in accordance with forum rule 1 - Iris.
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Offline Cavalier

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Re: GT list to think on
« Reply #12 on: August 14, 2015, 07:16:56 AM »
Nice bat-rep Ibushi. Congrats on a great run, and really knowing your force well. Your bat-rep is tempting me to magnetize the sword arm for my Wraithknight and give it a whirl. Especially against Necrons those D attacks at initiative are super helpful. Loved the incorporation of Reapers into your list as well, with the new Dark Angels book they are more important than ever.

Surprised you hadn't had more success with the Hawks. I run 6 with Exarch (barebones) and they are freaking machines. They wiped out almost 20 models with their grenade blast alone last game I played against Tau- it was insane! Against the Crons they've been aces as well using grenade blast, and las fire and then battle focusing beyond 24" (and hopefully out of LOS). Mine have also brought down 3 flyers in the last 5 games on top of that.

Also liked how you included some fluff flavor into your bat-rep, and noted how much was left on the board for your opponent I'm gonna do that in my bat-reps as well.

Anyway great stuff, and keep us posted with your lists and game results, fascinating stuff!
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Offline Ibushi

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Re: GT list to think on
« Reply #13 on: August 14, 2015, 12:59:34 PM »
Cheers Cav, glad you enjoyed them!

Yeah I played with the sword once or twice and was not a fan, but changed my attitude and totally love him now. But this is using the modified D table under ITC, so if I played somewhere that allows full strength wraithcannons, i *might* reconsider. Not sure.

Same with the reapers, I was on the fence about them for a bit, but when I take 4 or more, they consistently do work against every opponent now that they can take starshot missiles, so I kept them in, and they were great!

With the Hawks I am still working them out I think. Do you start them off-table or skyleap turn 1? I am willing to keep them around for haywire attacks alone, but the plasma grenades have so much potential, its true.

Moving forward, I'm looking to take these boys to a big 5 game tournament next weekend, we'll see how they do!
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Re: GT list to think on
« Reply #14 on: August 14, 2015, 04:24:53 PM »
Thank you for the reports!

I play in an area that doesn't subscribe to nerfing ranged-D (actually a pretty rough and tumble area--lots of things are 'in' that are 'out' elsewhere). Even so, the Glaive Knight is the way to go. And I have indeed, numerous times, Blinded my enemies--sometimes during their shooting phase BEFORE they assault (blinding them on the way in). I even caught Draigo looking once when he rolled a '6'.

I have a youtube channel, and hope you don't mind my posting a link here. You can see the lists I use and what I play against: dcannon4life - YouTube

Offline Ibushi

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Re: GT list to think on
« Reply #15 on: August 16, 2015, 12:23:38 PM »
Cheers Mr D, I am a fan of your youtube channel! My only feedback would be that even though a lot of the games seem to be from tournaments, I have no idea how the whole tournament goes or where you end up placing etc. Sometimes you do mention it, but not consistently I feel.

Anyway, your D-sword wraithknights continue to an inspiration for my own. I will be sure to post reports after the event I'm going to next weekend -- hopefully he claims a few more warlords with his blade, heh.

In the meantime, I keep thinking about ways to keep up the classic Eldar flavour from years and codices past. A couple of my favourite lists ever were:

#1 Ulthwe Strike Force

Seer Council + Wraithgate (3x Farseer, 8x Warlock)
Spear of Khaine (Avatar + 2x Warlock)

6 Fire Dragons
10 Storm Guardians - 2x fusion + haywire
+Warlock - destructor, witchblade
10 Storm Guardians - 2x fusion + haywire
+Warlock - destructor, witchblade
10 Guardians - EML
5 Rangers

Vyper - BL
2 War Walkers - starcannons
2 War Walkers - starcannons

Looking at this list I struggle to imagine how it won games, and although it never quite won a tournament, it trounced many a hard list in its day.

Sad times that the USF is no longer an entity to be reckoned with...

#2 Great Court of the Young King

Farseer
Avatar
Scorpions +Exarch + infiltrate
Banshees + Exarch + Wave Serpent
Foot Dragons + Exarch

Dire Avengers + Wave Serpent
2x Guardians + BL

Shining Spears + Exarch + Bright Lance -- yes the Exarch could take a bright lance!

War Walkers - starcannons (back when they were 3 shots)
1x D-cannon
Wraithlord - BL

This list, and its later 4th ed cousin the Eldravatar Footdar with Harlies, were terrors of the tabletop, but so much flavour.

Although neither of these lists have my favourite old-time unit: banshees.

Anyway, been thinking a lot about to keep that flavour going and still keep it on the top tables.

Cheers
Ibushi
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Offline Ibushi

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Re: GT list to think on
« Reply #16 on: August 19, 2015, 03:39:26 PM »
So Mr. D, in light of your recent batrep, I am curious to continue discussing some list options for flavourful but powerful Eldar lists.

One thing that stands out is you decided not to go with D-cannons because opponents just avoid them, so it is a bit of a points sick for 3 of them.
In light of nastiness such as drop pod armies, that need to get right in your face, would you go back to 3x Ds, or middle out with 2 and see how it goes?

Back in the day I used to take just one D-cannon for the same reasons, and found it was enough for people to want to avoid it, but they would risk getting close sometimes since it was just one template, and that cost many a warlord his existence. These days with easier cover saves etc., I would scale up to two most likely.

Aside from that specific discussion, my thinking is that a top tier army needs to be able to deal with the likes of:

#1 skyhammer style armies -- drop in really close and pound you with guns, have assault elements. Also Ad Mech in BA pods.
#2 firebase style armies -- static QOF army that has tons of twin-linked, interceptor, skyfire, and ignores cover. Jeez.
#3 flying circus -- daemons or nids, multiple FMCs with powerful shooting and very powerful assault, crazy mobility all around.
#4 scatpack spam -- anything up to 30 scatbikes with a wraithknight in tow. Also venomspam, but that seems less common now.
#5 decurion harvest -- very resilient mid-range shooting and CC power.
#6 daemonkin -- maulerfiends plus D-thirster supported by summons and dogs.
#7 Battle Company style armies -- horde of vehicles + bodies, could also be Astra Militarum or Orks.
#8 Adamantine Lance -- any quantity of knights really.
#9 Airforce style armies -- do people actually take airforce armies to GTs? I've seen them but never faced one.
#10 Biker armies -- Ravenwing, White Scars or even Iron Hands, and Thundercav counts for this style too.

Of these, the one I have the biggest doubts about facing are Flying Circus style armies, especially daemons with invisible FMCs, as I just have no idea how to kill them. Flyrants I know how to kill, but bringing down 5 of them in any decisive manner would be really hard. Then there is The Unusual -- things we are unfamiliar with. Probably the most scary.

What are some ways that Eldar as we play them (i.e. TAC with Guardians style) respond to this kind of flying onslaught?

Food for thought as we put together 7th Ed lists for competitive play. Hopefully the Eldar codex isn't going to be redone again for at least 5 years, so we have some leeway with experimentation.

So far, I have found wraithguard with D-scythes in a wave serpent to be the major foil to many of these more aggressive lists, but personally I quite loathe the buggers and would rather have something else in my list. From a fluff perspective that does make sense though, as Eldar would never use such weapons and so give them to their undead warriors instead. I can only imagine the Farseer leading an army with wraithguard toting D-scythes would also be filled with loathing, but satisfied with their performance in eliminating the cornerstone unit of the enemy's army. I digress. It is hard to imagine how to replace the quadrumvirate of potency that is ignoring cover, ignoring saves, denying FNP, and causing D3 wounds per hit, but if there is a way to rock the Eldar without deploying the D, I will do it.

While D-guard do counter ground-based deathstars and cover- or FNP-reliant armies, they are useless against flying creatures. This is where the rest of the army comes in, and I'm just not convinced that Eldar has the staying power or ROF required to counter FMCs without a skyfire nexus. Is it worth squeezing in a Nightwing just to keep flyers honest? Would a Nightwing make the difference between victory and defeat, or just flap around making a scene? These are interesting questions to my fevered mind. Actually I think the single best counter Eldar has to FMC trolling is putting a Wraithcannon-toting WK on a skyfire nexus, and plinking them out of the sky with guided D slaps. Wouldn't work against an invis-thirster, but d-guard could handle him.

Anyway, don't have a ton of time before TSHFT this weekend, which I am really looking forward to -- who knows what matchups the pointy-ears will face? I will be sure to post batreps. List for right now, Coming to t Croneworld Near YOU, aka hoping not to face a flying circus:

Farseer Warlord - jetbike, spirit stone

5x D-guard
Wave Serpent - shuriken cannons + HF

10x Guardians
3x 3 Scatbikes
2x 3 Jetbikes

5x Hawks
Falcon - BL
Wraithknight - sword, laser

Aspect Host
4x Dark Reapers + Exarch
5x Fire Dragons + Exarch
8x Warp Spiders + Exarch

Alternatively, I could bump up the Hawks to 6 + Exarch, drop the Fire Dragons and one jetbike squad, and squeeze in a Nightwing. But I think the loss of an obsec unit and the FDs would be too much of a hit for very moderate return.

Cheers
Ibushi

Cheers
Ibushi





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Offline DCannon ForLife

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Re: GT list to think on
« Reply #17 on: August 19, 2015, 11:23:09 PM »
Those lists you've identified only 'auto' win in the hands of a tournament player.

Skyhammer is an absolutely egregious violation of the core rules (and of the general Drop Pod Assault rules). I think AN answer to that, as odd as it may seem, is to deploy everything. The truth is that a reasonably equipped Skyhammer is in the neighborhood of 600 points. It won't automatically get its points back. Having everything of yours on the table means you can answer with whatever is left. And frankly, Eldar have more than their fair share of 'answers'.

In general: The missions and terrain that are 'standard' in the tournaments you attend (and whatever nerfs have been imposed on your codex) has as much to do with the relative strength of your list as how TaC it is on paper.

I will make room for a full unit of Distortion Cannons in my 1850 lists and will either start my Autarch or my Farseer (I may take one of each) with them for the better leadership. At 1500, the Distortion Cannons are likely to stay home (overkill).

There is an answer in the codex that addresses more than half of the lists. It's not exactly a secret, but I prefer to not broadcast it. It is the direction I'm going though.

As for your upcoming tournament--I wouldn't add a Nightwing this late unless I could get 5+ games in. HOWEVER, I would take the Scatter Laser off of the Wraith Knight and (I'm betting you have 1 more point available) add a Swooping Hawk back in that way.

Cheers and good luck!

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Re: GT list to think on
« Reply #18 on: August 20, 2015, 02:54:40 PM »
Agreed regarding the counter to skyhammer, and a lot of armies I've found, but you do need to have decent terrain to set up in.

A single large BLOS terrain feature will royally screw over some alpha armies, or master of ambush strategies.

Anyway, am definitely playing with the idea of bringing in the D-cannons again, now that ITC is going back to D3 and 3 wounds per hit. Can think of some nice strategies and just raw power of course.

There are some obvious Eldar solutions to the above, like d-scythes, WKs, and warp spiders. Curious to hear how you would deal with flying circus builds and how those fit together. If it involves cloudstrike or crimson death, fair enough, but i woud do something else personally.

You are right -- I totally have 1 extra point and can squeeze in that 6th hawk! I don't know why I didn't think of dropping the SL, it's mostly symbolic anyway... Will do that and see how it goes. Getting up to 6 seems more important than forking for the Exarch.

Last codex I played with the Nightwing a fair few times, and though I found its damage output to be somewhat wanting, it literally never died, and could soak up a good deal of firepower. Mostly it just helps to keep the other player honest, forcing flyers to jink, and getting the occasional side or rear AV on vehicles in the backfield. Not going to squeeze it in this tournament, but maybe next time.

On the autarch + farseer thing, I took one of each back at the last big GT and found them useful, but would still prefer a Farseer just for Guide, Prescience and Shriek over an autarch. A barebones autarch for the reserves is good, but pricey for what you get in my opinion, plus an easy warlord kill.

Cheers
Ibushi

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Offline DCannon ForLife

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Re: GT list to think on
« Reply #19 on: August 20, 2015, 03:00:11 PM »
Remember that ANY character can be your Warlord, and you will still get to roll on the Warlord Trait table. If you're throwing your Autarch into the fray, perhaps nominate an Exarch.

 


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