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Offline Swarmish

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Re: 6th edition
« Reply #120 on: July 1, 2012, 01:16:40 PM »
Well if that's true and as I gathered the units that are not in base to base or 2" from a base to base contact cannot die this is the trick everyone will try to pull

I think you might be confusing "who is allowed to fight" with how models are allocated wounds in close combat. ALL models in your opponent's unit can have wounds allocated to them, you simply keep proceeding with the closest model, next closest, etc. In fact the rulebook explicitly states that if you run out of targets in base contact to allocate wounds to you just keep going. So in your example the conga line would have no effect whatsoever as wounds would just keep getting allocated to further Orks, even those in the mass behind the conga line.

Well, that's a bit of a relief.

This is why it is now more important to keep your exarch, sarge, champion, etc. out of the initial fray (unless you knew he was going to be stomp face) as he would be the first to go if that model was the closest.  I really like this rule change.  5th edition allowed from some sloppy movement, and this makes it a bit more "tactical".

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Re: choosing power weapons
« Reply #121 on: July 1, 2012, 06:40:55 PM »
The way the model is constructed and the bits used to do so determine what kind of power weapon it has, the full rules and the answer to your question about their cost are located in the 6th Edition rulebook.  ;)

Scrounging around for the preferred bits to attach to your power weapon wielding model is an issue, something of a throwback to the first and second editions of the game.  Take  heart, however, since the power fist is still the best option above all (with the exception of things like Howling Banshees).
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Offline Lachdonin

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Re: choosing power weapons
« Reply #122 on: July 1, 2012, 06:48:19 PM »
Take  heart, however, since the power fist is still the best option above all (with the exception of things like Howling Banshees).

Unless you're in Terminator Armour, in which case Banshees are like mewling kittens now. Like being mauled by strippers while inside an Abrams...

In all seriousness though, i do like the inclusion of specific types of wargear, rather than generic 'Power Weapons'. I tend to feel that it is a more "Space Marine centric' change, however, as most armies don't have that type of aesthetic variation.
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Offline Chuckles, The Space Marine Clown

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Re: 6th edition
« Reply #123 on: July 2, 2012, 05:36:53 AM »
Fortunately for me, Terminators are absolutely no harder to kill for Tyranids. However, as I am conscious that there are people out there who play other armies I do have to ask: was it really necessary to make Terminators harder to kill?
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Offline Reepy

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Re: 6th edition
« Reply #124 on: July 2, 2012, 05:52:16 AM »
Fortunately for me, Terminators are absolutely no harder to kill for Tyranids. However, as I am conscious that there are people out there who play other armies I do have to ask: was it really necessary to make Terminators harder to kill?

For you maybe. I use Warriors with Swords.

Offline Chuckles, The Space Marine Clown

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Re: 6th edition
« Reply #125 on: July 2, 2012, 05:54:07 AM »
So do I, Boneswords are completely unchanged in 6th edition. No armour saves for anybody.
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Offline Reepy

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Re: 6th edition
« Reply #126 on: July 2, 2012, 05:55:53 AM »
So do I, Boneswords are completely unchanged in 6th edition. No armour saves for anybody.

Hah... you're right. Woe is me for not trusting the hive mind.

Offline Ghostofman

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Re: 6th edition
« Reply #127 on: July 2, 2012, 08:04:02 AM »
Fortunately for me, Terminators are absolutely no harder to kill for Tyranids. However, as I am conscious that there are people out there who play other armies I do have to ask: was it really necessary to make Terminators harder to kill?

I think our pals above make a point. The imperium and a couple others now find terminators tougher to kill. a lot of xenos aren't really effected since they have weapons that "ignore armor saves" and not "power weapons"

That said I do think that terminators are going to see a boost in use, as they are rough, tough, relentless, and can deep strike. Sounds like everything you need to take advantage of the new wound rules and drop them in in the back to neuter heavy weapons teams.

Offline Guildmage Arcas

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Re: 6th edition
« Reply #128 on: July 2, 2012, 08:10:40 AM »
Tactical Terminators and Mega Armoured nobs were rarely seen due to how easy they are to kill. This change may help with that. I'm not sure that they'll turn into the be all and end all as their toughness against shooting has hardly changed... or even reduced with people firing plasmaguns on the move.
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Offline Spirit of Kurnous

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Re: 6th edition
« Reply #129 on: July 2, 2012, 03:03:43 PM »
I've just been glancing through the book, but one thing that I think will be a HUGE change to tactics is the fact that now you have to roll your charge distance. This is a brilliant change to the rules if you ask me!

cant believe they brought one of the worst rules from WHFB into 40k, along with everything else I am hearing (like pre measuring, stand and shoot, worse power weapons) this edition of 40k sounds even worse than any previous.
hardly played 5th ed as was getting worse and more kiddified with each edition and was hoping for some goodness in 6th, like maybe bringing back actual movement stats, to hit mods and armour mods. but seems it was a wasted opportunity and my eldar will continue to gather dust until we see what 7th is like in a few years.
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Offline enlg

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Re: 6th edition
« Reply #130 on: July 2, 2012, 03:06:04 PM »
Spirit of Kurnous, consider the fact that shooting armies are now much more powerful. Random charge distances won't come into play as much if you work a strong gunline.

Offline Grand Master Lomandalis

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Re: 6th edition
« Reply #131 on: July 2, 2012, 04:22:59 PM »
cant believe they brought one of the worst rules from WHFB into 40k, along with everything else I am hearing
It stopped the Mexican Stand-offs at the edge of charge distance in fantasy, and it will do the same in 40k.

pre measuring,
You would be surprised how many games permit pre-measuring.  I actually think 40k was one of the few that don't allow it tbh.
hardly played 5th ed as was getting worse and more kiddified with each edition and was hoping for some goodness in 6th, like maybe bringing back actual movement stats, to hit mods and armour mods. but seems it was a wasted opportunity and my eldar will continue to gather dust until we see what 7th is like in a few years.
GW are taking all the tactics out of their (war)games. might as well play space crusade.
So from the sounds of it what you are wanting is... 2nd edition?  I am sure you can find the rules somewhere to go back and play that.
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Offline Reepy

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Re: 6th edition
« Reply #132 on: July 2, 2012, 04:28:31 PM »
I like the new edition very much and personally think it brought more tactics to the game, not less.

Tactical Terminators and Mega Armoured nobs were rarely seen due to how easy they are to kill. This change may help with that. I'm not sure that they'll turn into the be all and end all as their toughness against shooting has hardly changed... or even reduced with people firing plasmaguns on the move.

I totally agree. Except for assault terminators the regular ones were rarely seen and hopefully this will change. And since there won't be that many tanks in 6th there won't be as many AT weapons and thus termies might survive a turn or two :)

Offline premetheus

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Re: 6th edition
« Reply #133 on: July 3, 2012, 07:51:29 AM »

hardly played 5th ed as was getting worse and more kiddified.

This edition defiantly not more kiddified, it has got a lot harder for them to learn. The new wound allocation also adds a whole new level of tactical thinking to movement.

GW for a long time now have aimed to make the game more accessible to a wider audience, 6th edition adds more complexity and to a large extent has readdressed the imbalance.

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Re: 6th edition
« Reply #134 on: July 3, 2012, 08:21:11 AM »
I disagree that 5th edition was at all 'kiddified' it is completely wrong to try and equate simple rules to meaning an easy game. If anyone really thinks that I suggest they go enter the World Chess Championship.
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Re: 6th edition
« Reply #135 on: July 3, 2012, 09:11:28 AM »
I agree with Hymirl - A simple set of rules does not necessarily mean that a game cannot be tactical, interesting, fun or indeed have an inherent level of complexity. War of the Ring, for example is a sublimely simple set of rules but, I think is probably still the best game system that GW currently support in their stores! Similarly - blood bowl is a very simple game... and I don't think anyone dislikes that!

Whilst I think that charge distances affect fantasy quite harshly - for that game it had the effect of re-introducing randomness as the game was reaching a point where battles would be won or lost based on the army that you built and with less regard to the actual play on the board... this is also why the magic was randomised up a lot more. Of course, for a WAAC player, that was horrible, because they couldn't deal with the idea that they might lose a game that uses dice because they could have bad luck! This is why a lot of players ended up moving away from fantasy when the last edition came out - and it is probably why some players will leave 40k now... All the better for the rest of us if you ask me!


Offline Saim-Hann Corsair

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Re: 6th edition
« Reply #136 on: July 3, 2012, 11:02:25 AM »
I also agree. The main point I was going for when I made that comment was that anyone who played this game for anything length of time can easily look down at the table and tell what is six inches. This led to maneuvering for assaults to become a routinely bland thing.

For example, if we set up 18 inches apart from each other and you went first and moved, in turn two, I would have the advantage of assaulting you - and gain the benefits from that.

I feel that this rule change clearly breaks this up and adds a lot to game tactics - like risk. You now have to take a risk to charge, because you are going to get blasted by Overwatch, and then you may fail the charge all together. This makes  you think, and maneuver to be closer to your opponent before committing to a charge. All these things mean that it makes a player use better battlefield tactics, which I personally am all about.

I also feel it adds more realism to game, as there are bullets and missiles and smoke and bombs and debris flying everywhere. So perhaps when the unit goes to charge, a bomb goes off by them causing them to stumble a bit; or another unit is shooting over their heads causing them to crouch and slow their assault etc.

Offline Spirit of Kurnous

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Re: 6th edition
« Reply #137 on: July 3, 2012, 01:41:03 PM »
sorry but random charges takes away from tactics. in days when troops used to charge a general knew the sort of distance he could get a charge from and used it in his tactics.
the same in wargames, you know how far you can charge, you know how far the enemy can charge. this is something you build a tactic on. now its all down to a bit of luck, nothing tactical about that unless you count getting close enough to not fail as tactics, which is actually just playing the dice.
the more dice are involved the less tactics are.
WHFB was mentioned as it being good for, this is also false. in WHFB you manoeuvre around the enemy to your best advantage then charge, but now you can guarantee at least one of those tactical manoeuvres will fail purely on luck, no matter your tactical brilliance in positioning the forces at your disposal.
and never said go back to 2nd ed, but yes 2nd ed was so much better than 3rd onwards as it wasnt about making marines harder every edition (see power weapon changes for this editions attempt). actual move stats for different races, making the decision between charging or walking and shooting, not doing both. actual to hit mods when shots would be more difficult. armour save mods when weapons are more likely to go through armour. you dont have to go back to 2nd to implement these but it would put off alot of the kids because it actually requires thinking about charge distances, simple maths etc which 40k no longer does require. either get the save or not, roll the dice and get the charge or not.
yes simple can be tactical but unless you are a fanboy 40k is nothing about tactics, its about rolling buckets of dice and praying to the gods of luck.
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Offline Chuckles, The Space Marine Clown

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Re: 6th edition
« Reply #138 on: July 3, 2012, 02:19:10 PM »
yes simple can be tactical but unless you are a fanboy 40k is nothing about tactics, its about rolling buckets of dice and praying to the gods of luck.

Correct. What was your objection to random charges again?
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Offline Spirit of Kurnous

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Re: 6th edition
« Reply #139 on: July 3, 2012, 02:20:57 PM »
yes simple can be tactical but unless you are a fanboy 40k is nothing about tactics, its about rolling buckets of dice and praying to the gods of luck.

Correct. What was your objection to random charges again?

that its one more thing to make 40k a less tactical game, which seems you agree with me on that.
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Eldar=12000pts
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Slaanesh=5000pts      
Wood Elves=6000pts
Slaanesh Deamons = 3000pts
High Elves 3000pts

 


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