News: No news is good news...

Login  |  Register

Author Topic: Can there be female Space Marines?  (Read 28112 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Squirrelloid

  • Honor Guard
  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1849
  • Only in darkness, light
Can there be female Space Marines?
« on: October 24, 2007, 12:09:10 PM »
Topic split from this thread.  -Mr.Peanut

Alright, not to be rude, but please, do not turn this into a mudslinging fest.  I have merely stated my position.  Per the fluff, Space Marines are men, can only ever be men, and no women can enter their ranks due to the in ability of the gene-seed to successfully, and without fatal results, join with the female gene.

This still makes no sense.  See my original response to Nihil. The "female gene" is the X chromosome - and all men have one.  Its just having 2 makes you female.  Therefore, no one could become a spacemarine by this logic.

Quote
However, the Sisters of Battle are a seperate army, and that is where the, in faith at least, if not physically, equivalent of Space Marines reside.  While they are not Space Marines, they do have their own order in which they find their skills useful.

Which still doesn't help someone who clearly wants to field a mixed force.  They could go play Eldar... but why limit someone's use of the rules because they want a gender-equal force?

Quote
I am not sexist, far from it.  I support female rights, but, when it comes to, in the WH40k universe, women cannot join the ranks of the Space Marines.  The fluff has been set down so, the "science" of the geneseed has spoken as well.

My "that's offensive" post was specifically directed at the post it quoted - it was the manner in which that post was phrased that was offensive.  Having a discussion on the possibility of female space marines and how binding is the fluff is perfectly reasonable - you have just thus far presented no evidence proving it cannot be done, only that it isn't typically done.  Your "science of the geneseed" argument would only prove no one can become a spacemarine, which is proveably false.

Quote
Again, the Sisters of Battle are where the females of the universe can gather.  And, while they do not get the advantages of Terminator Armour, they do not need it.

The only, fluff-wise, safe way to make a female Terminator is to take a DH Inquisitor and give her Terminator Armour.  She will be weaker than the SMs, but you will get your female.

Fluff is mutable and under player control.  GW has historically been supportive of players writing their own fluff.  So some chapter started taking female recruits at some point - maybe there was a shortage of available men, possibly because they were stranded and out of contact with the rest of the Imperium for awhile, and having suffered heavy casualties and in dangerous territory they were willing to take any steps to restore themselves to full strength.  Perhaps they've just recently regained contact with the Imperium, and the presence of female troops merely evidence of their difficult recent past.  Perhaps the tradition became institutionalized despite long ago having regained contact because of the actions of one or more valorous female marines, making the recruitment of women part of their tradition.  Sure, they probably can't have the Chapter Master be female (or at least not the person represented as chapter master to the imperium) - this is the sort of deviance that gets the inquisition sicced on you after all.  You grab "We Stand Alone" as one of your flaws to compensate for trait choices, and you've already got a great prompt for writing your chapter's fluff.  Doing something different than usual is a great way to get a chapter started on paper, because then you have to explain *why* its different, and how it got to be that way.  Instant fluff.  How can anything which doesn't change the rules at all and creates so much possibility for good detailed fluff be bad?
« Last Edit: October 24, 2007, 03:39:25 PM by Mr.Peanut »
The ignorant shall fall to the squirrels - Chip 4:2

Unusual SM armies

Angband Code:
S WI(x) !Xok ht->ho !C P88 DL:5000' A++ R+++ Sp+ w: mjolnir or wrestling
S(ToME) W H- D+ !c f- PV+ !s d !P M+
C-- S+ I- So- B- ac !GHB SQ RQ++ V- F: multipage inventory

Offline Irandrura

  • Only mildly annoying
  • Ancient
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6835
Re: Can there be female Space Marines?
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2007, 07:37:23 PM »
For me?

Short answer - No. There are no female Space Marines, full stop. However, while female Space Marines have no place in the background, modelling has little to do with that, and so you can model your Space Marines however you like.

There is a longer answer, but it's thrashed back and forth so often I really don't care. As a rule, though, people who argue that female Space Marines are appropriate and plausible in the background tend not to be taken seriously. Cool models, no one has a problem with, but no one believes female Marines are plausible. I am, of course, not a biologist, but I'm afraid it is stated that the process which creates a Marine is male-exclusive.

Quote from: Index Astartes: Rites of Initiation
These considerations mean that only a small proportion of people can become Space Marines. They must be male because zygotes are keyed to male hormones and tissue types, hence the need for tissue compatibility tests and psychological screening. If these tests prove successful, a candidate becomes a neophyte.

Incidentally, I wouldn't consider notions of political correctness to be at all relevant to this discussion. No comment on the other qualities of women or men is intended; merely that only men can become Marines.

Quote
How can anything which doesn't change the rules at all and creates so much possibility for good detailed fluff be bad?

Technically, you could say the same thing about the Hello Kitty Sisters of Battle. Just because something is a fun modelling project does not mean it is supported by the background.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2007, 07:39:38 PM by Irandrura »
The ending of the words is ALMSIVI.

Offline Caerolion

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 386
Re: Can there be female Space Marines?
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2007, 08:32:18 PM »
Actually, the argument that the geneseed cannot join with the female gene is plausible. Why? Because men also have a Y chromosome. If the geneseed needs to join with a Y chromosome in order to work, or the use of testosterone, there cannot be any female marines. You kinda left that out. Its like saying that men can give birth, because we also have an X chromosome, which is required to form the female genitalia, and therefore, if we try hard enough, we should be able to form those, and eventually give birth.
Basically, you're only looking at half of the answer, and building your argument from there, ignoring the part that makes the explanation viable.

Offline evileyevirtue

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 705
  • Tastes like chicken...
Re: Can there be female Space Marines?
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2007, 11:08:28 PM »
Quote
Quote from: Index Astartes: Rites of Initiation
These considerations mean that only a small proportion of people can become Space Marines. They must be male because zygotes are keyed to male hormones and tissue types, hence the need for tissue compatibility tests and psychological screening. If these tests prove successful, a candidate becomes a neophyte.

Incidentally, in the world of human biology, that explains absolutely nothing.  As stated before, both males and females both have testosterone and estrogen naturally.  All of the human tissue is the same, the difference in how it develops.  Before a zygote forms genitalia, they are the same exact thing weather it turns out to be a male or a female.  Now if it said something along the lines that specific hormone levels were required, that would be a different story.  Then again, you could always put a female under hormone treatments to make them able to accept the process.

I think it really comes down to the sect.  The marines are the boys.  The Sisters of Battle (or Sisters of Silence) are the girls.  That's just the way the Imperium is set up.  Since that's the way it's been and what standard doctrine says, why change it?  I would imagine radical 'excommunicated but still loyal to the Emperor' chapters have the possibility of drawing females, due to whatever reason (lack of candidates, disease, etc).
Friends don't let friends play Dark Eldar :)

Visit my BLOG!!!

Offline Bumbles

  • I supported No'Akei and all I got was this silly title
  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2449
  • Country: au
Re: Can there be female Space Marines?
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2007, 11:24:05 PM »
Well maybe one (or both) of the Missing Primarchs were female.
Who know?
So if you want to play a female Marine army there's your explanation - Lost Primarch chapters.

Offline Karynos

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 660
  • Country: 00
    • Independent Political Report
Re: Can there be female Space Marines?
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2007, 11:29:37 PM »
Quote
Seriously though this goes totally against the fluff man how are you gonna figure a way around the whole, "geneseed rejects a woman's body" thing?) :D
This is science fiction.  There are always 50 ways around any obstacle if you exercise the smallest particle of creativity.

Just to show you how easy it is, here's 10 possibilities off the top of my head:

Fabius Bile creating female geneseed
Cursed founding experimentation
Females who are genetically able to accept normal geneseed due to a DNA quirk
Female geneseed from the lost legions, who were female
Radical Inquisitor comissioning the creation of female geneseed
Slaneesh or Tzeench changing male marines to female, altering their geneseed as well
Alternate geneseed created prior to the great crusade
A human group unaffiliated with the rest of humanity since before the great crusade
Nano-machines that reconstruct a female to have all of the extra organs without geneseed.
Drugs or psychic abilities that boost a normal female to the level of a marine. 



[/quote]
If you go to this link I have a made a craftworld-kabal battle system that needs ironing out and testing. If you have any edit suggestions, please PM me or post in the thread.

http://www.40konline.com/community/index.php?topic=184437.0

Offline Perigrine

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 922
Re: Can there be female Space Marines?
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2007, 11:33:47 PM »
Im pretty sure that when refering to the Primarchs they are all considered to be the Emperor's sons not sons and daughters.

Even though you could argue science and biology there is actually an even simpler explanation as to why there are no female marines. You must remember that most Marine chapters recruit from warrior cultures and sad as it is most warrior cultures even in the 40th millenium seem to be male centric. Also please dont start up about the SOB in this as they are recruited by an entirely different means then that of the Astartes.

You can sit here and argue science fact over science fiction but what you must remember is that science fact has no place in the 40k universe.  

Offline Squirrelloid

  • Honor Guard
  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1849
  • Only in darkness, light
Re: Can there be female Space Marines?
« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2007, 11:48:50 PM »
There is a longer answer, but it's thrashed back and forth so often I really don't care. As a rule, though, people who argue that female Space Marines are appropriate and plausible in the background tend not to be taken seriously. Cool models, no one has a problem with, but no one believes female Marines are plausible. I am, of course, not a biologist, but I'm afraid it is stated that the process which creates a Marine is male-exclusive.

Quote from: Index Astartes: Rites of Initiation
These considerations mean that only a small proportion of people can become Space Marines. They must be male because zygotes are keyed to male hormones and tissue types, hence the need for tissue compatibility tests and psychological screening. If these tests prove successful, a candidate becomes a neophyte.

Incidentally, I wouldn't consider notions of political correctness to be at all relevant to this discussion. No comment on the other qualities of women or men is intended; merely that only men can become Marines.

Women have "male hormones", just in smaller quantities.  And there is no difference in tissue types between the genders.  (Even the obvious, the Testes, is the same tissue _type_ as ovaries.  Type is pretty general.)  I should note that I find it pretty unlikely that the geneseed is somehow keyed to the Testes, but transexuals do exist and have the requisite part as well as possibly female physiology - one could certainly look like a woman in a space marine suit.

Psychological compatibility is pretty trivial.  Gender is not the same as sex, and gender is pretty fluid.  Regardless of what 'personality' (hormone balance?) the geneseed requires, there are going to be some women who are matches - possibly just fewer than the total number of male matches.  We're talking about long tails of distributions here with different means, not exclusive sets.

Quote from: Caerolion
Actually, the argument that the geneseed cannot join with the female gene is plausible. Why? Because men also have a Y chromosome. If the geneseed needs to join with a Y chromosome in order to work, or the use of testosterone, there cannot be any female marines. You kinda left that out. Its like saying that men can give birth, because we also have an X chromosome, which is required to form the female genitalia, and therefore, if we try hard enough, we should be able to form those, and eventually give birth.
Basically, you're only looking at half of the answer, and building your argument from there, ignoring the part that makes the explanation viable.

XXY is generally considered "female" (and many are indistinguishable appearance-wise), but has a Y chromosome.

Women have testosterone.

Not all women can give birth.  Having an X chromosome is insufficient for doing so.  In fact, Turner's syndrome (XO, no second sex chromosome) are female but sterile.  So clearly 2 Xs is required for giving birth.  The point was that possession of an X can't disqualify one from something, because men also have an X.  There is no exclusively female chromosome (or even gene), only an exclusively male chromosome (and genes).  And most of that is just a truncated X - there are very few unique genes on it, and virtually all have to do with sex organ differentiation.

You can get women to form a penis and testes by increasing the testosterones levels in their system during development.  Similarly, by increasing estrogen during male development you can stop or arrest the development of the penis and cause the development of breasts and (if early enough) a birth canal et al.  They both have the necessary genes for it - its gene/hormone interactions which cause gender differences, not just genes keyed for it.

Sex and gender are a lot more plastic than people like to think, and there are lots of weird cases in terms of aberrent chromosome numbers (XO, XXY, XYY, XXX) which play havoc with our standard notions of sex and gender.  And the physical biology is the easy part.  I am pretty confident that for any plausible reason you can give why women are incapable of being space marines, I can find a case that is a "woman" by colloquial english usage and gross physiological criteria and would qualify.

Remember also that the Space Marine fluff is written "in character", by which i mean from the perspective of someone in the space marine universe.  It may be what they believe.  A lot of it sounds like gobbledygook and has nothing to do with real biology.  (Male hormones being implied to be exclusive to males?)  It might explain why more chapters don't do it, or it might have been written by someone with an agenda to insure an all-male space marine system.  Since it is written in-character, it means its as fallible as a character in the universe (notably, its unnamed and presumably unknown author), and subject to all the biases its author had.  Similarly, people in reality at one point claimed that light couldn't travel through a vacuum, there had to be some medium through which it traveled.  They were wrong, but it was the accepted wisdom of their day.  Similarly, the Rites of Initiation could be wrong, either unintentionally or trying purposefully to be misleading.  Especially in an age where technology is poorly understood and the words and devices of their forbearers taken as holy gospel, that there is wrong science and explanation embedded in it that goes undetected would not even be remarkable.  (That none of the GW writers are scientists, or even apparently took a basic biology class in college from the looks of that Rites of Initiation quote, makes this a good thing - they don't have to worry about saying something that could actually be possible.)
The ignorant shall fall to the squirrels - Chip 4:2

Unusual SM armies

Angband Code:
S WI(x) !Xok ht->ho !C P88 DL:5000' A++ R+++ Sp+ w: mjolnir or wrestling
S(ToME) W H- D+ !c f- PV+ !s d !P M+
C-- S+ I- So- B- ac !GHB SQ RQ++ V- F: multipage inventory

Offline Irandrura

  • Only mildly annoying
  • Ancient
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6835
Re: Can there be female Space Marines?
« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2007, 12:03:59 AM »
Incidentally, in the world of human biology, that explains absolutely nothing.  As stated before, both males and females both have testosterone and estrogen naturally.  All of the human tissue is the same, the difference in how it develops.  Before a zygote forms genitalia, they are the same exact thing weather it turns out to be a male or a female.  Now if it said something along the lines that specific hormone levels were required, that would be a different story.  Then again, you could always put a female under hormone treatments to make them able to accept the process.

I'm under no illusions that everything GW writes makes sense. On the contrary, I'm sure it's all nonsense from a scientific perspective. The point was merely that there's a canon source saying only men can become Space Marines, and nothing has ever been published to contradict it. This is one of the few points on which GW canon is consistent!

How you interpret the science is up to you. Why not say that the passage means that specific hormonal levels are necessary? It also happens that testosterone is not the only androgen. All the IA actually says is that many of the zygotes are keyed to male hormones, which could easily be read as saying that they require a certain level of that androgen to be present in order to develop. I don't know. I'm not a scientist. The intent of the quote, though, seems clear to me.
The ending of the words is ALMSIVI.

Offline Jehan-Reznor

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1767
    • The Dude in Japan
Re: Can there be female Space Marines?
« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2007, 12:08:16 AM »
i think the reason is socially and not technology. the whole imperial system is like a regression in culture, like the middle ages. where male and female were strongly separated in their roles.
it is like space marine are like fighting monks and sisters of battle are fighting nuns. in old there was a lot written about the danger of the female "creature" so they would not want to give females more power.

on another note.
the sisters of battle emerged well after establishing the space marines, and the knowledge how to create a space marine from scratch has been lost. so i do not think they would like to waste geneseed on experiments that may have unknown results.

anyway there is a female chapter called the fighting tigers of Veda?

Maybe one of the lost primarchs was a transsexual? (transvestite from transsexual Transylvania aha :p) a space legion in drag  ;D
« Last Edit: October 25, 2007, 12:13:12 AM by Jehan-Reznor »
"this can't be happening, Man!"
my projects;
http://www.40konline.com/community/index.php?topic=169427.0 budhhist space marines
http://www.40konline.com/community/index.php?topic=163611.0 Doombringer my space marine chapter
http://www.40konline.com/community/index.php?topic=150109.0 Hello Kitty Space Marine Army

Offline Irandrura

  • Only mildly annoying
  • Ancient
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6835
Re: Can there be female Space Marines?
« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2007, 12:14:11 AM »
anyway there is a female chapter called the fighting tigers of Veda?

They're a well known fan Chapter. And it didn't make any sense when they did it either. Squirelloid's argument, while I disagree with it, is logical and well set out. Kilgore's defense isn't even that, in my opinion.
The ending of the words is ALMSIVI.

Offline Jehan-Reznor

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1767
    • The Dude in Japan
Re: Can there be female Space Marines?
« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2007, 12:56:58 AM »
i like the well thought up fan projects even if they clash with GW fluff.

but back to the topic.
anyway if think like that why are they no female nazgul? it does not matter, if it is your own chapter you can do what you want but expect officialize it is somewhat to much, but who knows maybe in the next edition there will be the female fluffy rabbit chapter with marines with combable hair and several outfits to get young girls into the game, you never know ;)
« Last Edit: October 25, 2007, 12:58:28 AM by Jehan-Reznor »
"this can't be happening, Man!"
my projects;
http://www.40konline.com/community/index.php?topic=169427.0 budhhist space marines
http://www.40konline.com/community/index.php?topic=163611.0 Doombringer my space marine chapter
http://www.40konline.com/community/index.php?topic=150109.0 Hello Kitty Space Marine Army

Offline evileyevirtue

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 705
  • Tastes like chicken...
Re: Can there be female Space Marines?
« Reply #12 on: October 25, 2007, 02:14:57 AM »
Oh oh oh...I got an idea!

You could always base a chapter off the whole theory about the Emperor having children.  If he supposedly had half human half Emperor children...they could possibly be equivilent to a Primarch.  Now say a extremist chapter out there finds one of these kiddos (I forgot what they were called) and uses the gene seed or genetic coding or whatnot to create a recruiting process for females?  With the extremist chapters, just about anything is possible (they could have been excommunicated for experimenting with the gene seed of the chapter in the first place).

The Emperor's DNA?  It's in there!
Friends don't let friends play Dark Eldar :)

Visit my BLOG!!!

Offline TDB

  • Lap Dancing Teasers
  • Lazerous Penguin
  • Senior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2534
  • Country: au
Re: Can there be female Space Marines?
« Reply #13 on: October 25, 2007, 02:45:15 AM »
Quote
I am pretty confident that for any plausible reason you can give why women are incapable of being space marines, I can find a case that is a "woman" by colloquial english usage and gross physiological criteria and would qualify.

Unless the process was made to specifically stop females (most anyway) from becoming Space Marines, that's the only reason i can see why it wouldn't be possible to use the same methods as are used on males.  I'm trying to think of genetic or physical reasons but i can't think of any.
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" Arthur C. Clarke
Is fhearr an t-olc a chluinntinn na fhaicinn (better to hear the evil than see it)

Offline Squirrelloid

  • Honor Guard
  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1849
  • Only in darkness, light
Re: Can there be female Space Marines?
« Reply #14 on: October 25, 2007, 03:59:05 AM »
but back to the topic.
anyway if think like that why are they no female nazgul? it does not matter, if it is your own chapter you can do what you want but expect officialize it is somewhat to much, but who knows maybe in the next edition there will be the female fluffy rabbit chapter with marines with combable hair and several outfits to get young girls into the game, you never know ;)

Off topic, but amusing to note: there is a female Nazgul.  Adunaphel* specifically, if my memory serves me.

*The 9 nazgul have all been named, though most of them are pseudo-canon.  That is, there are well-known unique names for each of them, but I don't believe they go back to Tolkien.  (With the exception of Khamul the Easterling, who I'm pretty sure is specifically named by Tolkien).  However, I haven't finished reading the War of the Rings collection of his writings by his son, so the pseudo-canon names may actually be canon, or at least some may be canon.  The names are: Murazor the Witch King, Khamul the Easterling, Dwar of Waw, Ji Indur Dawndeath, Akhorail, Hoarmurath of Dur, Adunaphel the Quiet, Uvatha the Horseman, and Ren the Unclean.  A quick internet check has one site thinking the names are from the ICE middle-earth RPG originally, but i think they appeared earlier in other media (notably Angband and related games) - I could be wrong however.
The ignorant shall fall to the squirrels - Chip 4:2

Unusual SM armies

Angband Code:
S WI(x) !Xok ht->ho !C P88 DL:5000' A++ R+++ Sp+ w: mjolnir or wrestling
S(ToME) W H- D+ !c f- PV+ !s d !P M+
C-- S+ I- So- B- ac !GHB SQ RQ++ V- F: multipage inventory

Offline malicant

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1031
  • Country: ie
  • "It is not blood that binds us..."
Re: Can there be female Space Marines?
« Reply #15 on: October 25, 2007, 05:34:45 AM »
In the index astartes, it states that applicants MUST be male as the zygotes are linked to male hormones.  So in short, no females can't be marines.

http://uk.games-workshop.com/spacemarines/initiation/3/

It's at the end of that page, under "RECRUITMENT AND INITIATION"

Offline Baharistrill

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 202
Re: Can there be female Space Marines?
« Reply #16 on: October 25, 2007, 06:41:35 AM »
Any 'science' arguments in 40k are going to have to deal with the fact that the laws of reality there aren't the same as in the real world. I'm sure I could come up with a convincing argument for why psychic powers don't work, but I very much doubt any of you would accept it. The 'no female marines' fluff isn't quite at that level, of course, but it is there.

As for the biological arguments, it's worth remembering that many men can't become Marines either. While it's true that there is a gray area, we're not talking about the average man here, nor what differences there are between males and females at pre-birth stages. Marines are created from fully developed adults, and specifically from males of exceptional physical and mental ability.

People born with abnormal chromosomes almost always have problems because of it, putting them outside the peak physical perfection required to become a Marine. Similarly, abnormal levels of male and female hormones tends to cause psychological issues. Prospective Marines have their mental and emotional strength tested severely already, anyone who is already under stress is going to crack.

If someone really wants to do something it's their choice, no matter how badly it strains the fluff, but that doesn't mean that the fluff should change to accommodate them.

As I see it, the fluff is internally consistent, doesn't strain real science too badly, and isn't particularly objectionable in and of itself. What more can you ask?
Quote from: Locarno
"Mighty Tzeench, why did you do this thing, which hath turned so many of our plans to ash?"

"I was bored. Besides, you'll understand in about six thousand years. Some time in early April, if everything keeps on schedule...."

A new RPG forum Come and join!

Offline CheeseThief

  • Major
  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1305
Re: Can there be female Space Marines?
« Reply #17 on: October 25, 2007, 07:04:18 AM »
To quote Wikipedia on Testosterone:
Quote
Advanced postnatal effects
# Completion of bone maturation and termination of growth. This occurs indirectly via estradiol metabolites and hence more gradually in men than women.

Being a natural steroid, Testosterone is probably the most manipulated Hormone by the Biscopea (3rd Implant). An early maturing, growth stunted Space Marine, sounds pointless and sub-par to their male equivalents.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2007, 07:05:39 AM by CheeseThief »

Offline Irandrura

  • Only mildly annoying
  • Ancient
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6835
Re: Can there be female Space Marines?
« Reply #18 on: October 25, 2007, 07:29:25 AM »
You could always base a chapter off the whole theory about the Emperor having children.  If he supposedly had half human half Emperor children...they could possibly be equivilent to a Primarch.  Now say a extremist chapter out there finds one of these kiddos (I forgot what they were called) and uses the gene seed or genetic coding or whatnot to create a recruiting process for females?  With the extremist chapters, just about anything is possible (they could have been excommunicated for experimenting with the gene seed of the chapter in the first place).

The Sensei don't quite work like that... I'd recommend staying away from them altogether.

Quote from: Squirrelloid
Off topic, but amusing to note: there is a female Nazgul.  Adunaphel* specifically, if my memory serves me.

Nope. Those names aren't canon Tolkien. Canonically, only one of the Nazgûl was named - Khamûl, second in command to the Witch King, also called the Black Easterling.

The other eight you give are from the Iron Crown Enterprises role playing and trading card games. They're original creations not supported by the writings of Tolkien himself. Incidentally, I'd be pretty sure that none of the Nazgûl are female, as they're repeatedly referred to as nine kings of men.
The ending of the words is ALMSIVI.

Offline IainC

  • Mad prophet of the Whalepocalypse
  • Lazerous Penguin
  • Senior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1684
  • Country: de
  • Not Safe For Work
    • Antipwn
  • Armies: Grey Knights
Re: Can there be female Space Marines?
« Reply #19 on: October 25, 2007, 07:54:52 AM »
anyway there is a female chapter called the fighting tigers of Veda?

They're a well known fan Chapter. And it didn't make any sense when they did it either. Squirelloid's argument, while I disagree with it, is logical and well set out. Kilgore's defense isn't even that, in my opinion.
At one point Kenton had the rejection letter I sent him up on his website.
World's first ever Dark Eldar player... Don't be hatin' now.

My wargaming and painting blog

My games industry blog

 


Powered by EzPortal