40K Online

The Armies of 40k => Orks => Topic started by: Trokair on March 16, 2014, 05:28:30 PM

Title: Ork as Allies for a Shooting army, 300p-520p
Post by: Trokair on March 16, 2014, 05:28:30 PM
Hello Boyz
I have been thinking about adding some Ork allies to my Shooting armies as some CC cover. And also collect a few Orks without committing to a hoard of new models. However I have never played Orks in the past, and as such need some advice. A read through of the codex has let me come up with this potential ally list. Warboss and trukk plus either of the two troop choices.

My main lists have sufficient Anti-Air/Tank/Infantry Shooting, so all I am looking for is a CC unit to intercept the enemy, or just as a distraction.

Warboss – Power Klaw, Skorcha KW, Attack Squig, Cybork Boddy, ‘eavy armour

Option one:
10 Nobz –  1 Painboy, 1 Nob with Waaagh! Banner, 2 Nobz with Power Klaw, 2 Nobz with Big Choper and  Skorcha KW, 4 Nobz. All Nobz have ‘eavy armour

Option two:
11 ‘Ard Boyz – 1 Nob with Power Klaw, 1 Big Shoota, 9 Boyz

Trukk – Red Paint Job

Option one: 520p
Option two: 300p
Title: Re: Ork as Allies for a Shooting army, 300p-520p
Post by: OD from TV on March 16, 2014, 09:24:47 PM
I'm glad that the allies system is bringing you one step closer to the green side Trokair.

So my first question back is what are these going to be potential allies to, which does affect what options are the best for you to go with.  Even though that is the case, I'll gladly give some honest Orky opinions on your post.

Firstly every Ork unit really need a Bosspole.  Let me reiterate as it is truthfully the most important thing for Orks, they NEED a Bosspole, especially when operating in units under 20.  Without one, they will retreat from the field before they can truly maximize their full potential, and when such an important piece of kit costs so little, there is very rarely a time that you can't find a way to fit it in.

Warboss isn't bad, however in 6th I would typically recommend a Big Choppa for a Warboss over the Pk.  Yes you loose some strength, but by picking the Big Choppa you can utilize the Warboss's Initiative value, which is the highest among Da Greenskins.  I personally am not an advocate for Kombi skorchas, but I typically am not a fan of any Kombi/Combi weapon in the game itself.

Option 1, the Nobz.
A lot of Ork players that use Nobz are big on Cybork Bodies.  From a modeling aspect it's fun, and Cyborks always look dynamic on the table, and from a gaming perspective that Invul save is going to be used a lot more than you think, particularly when the Armor Save in question can and often will be negated by enemy AP.  I'm not saying ditch the Armor, but I am saying to consider the extra points for Cyborking.  Grot Orderlies are also really nice, and generally I'd take a couple over the Kombi-Skorcha Nobz, but as I said before I'm not really a fan of Kombi.

With Option 1 (and the Boss attached) Challenges will be an issue.  For some reason Nobz in the squad do not have the Character rule, but the Painboy will, meaning you will have to choose between your Boss or the Painboy when Challenged (or issuing them if you'd want to do that I suppose).  It's a tough one because you never want to loose an HQ option, but my advice is to try your best to keep the Painboy alive, he really helps keep that highly expensive unit operating.

Lastly with Option 1 I have to bring up the Footslogging nature.  While I mostly play Footslogging Orks these days, I don't bring Nob Squads because they cost a lot of points, become giant bulletmagnets with less survivability than expected, and frequently I've found that many player overestimate their killing potential.  Now were a slightly smaller unit of Nobz mounted on Warbikes, I'd be singing a different tune. 

The Bikes are speedy, have the Exhaust Save (which personally I think was the origin of Jink), twinlinked goodness, and of course that Toughness Bonus.  When the current codex was released people everywhere were complaining with screams of "overpowered" and while many still consider Nob Bikers an overpowered Deathstar, I think that there effectiveness is really dependent on keeping the numbers between 5-7, utilizing your movement, and remembering that has bulletmagnets they will be supporting the rest of your force by being something that your opponent will focus on.

Option 2, The Trukkboyz
While I am a fan of Eavy Armor on Nobz leading Boyz squads (even moreso in 6th Edition), I don't advice units of Ardboyz.  Yes I'm personally not over the injustice of making them a 0-1 choice, but more than that they are overcosted, particularly when much of the weapons in the game have an AP that will bypass that armor.

An old adage of the army that as proven true multiple times over is "The best Upgrade for Orks is More Orkz", and frankly I feel that very true of Trukkboyz.  Unlike the larger squads of Boyz, these small squads are going to get killed.  It's not even in the realm of possibility in my mind that a single unit of Trukkboyz will survive.  Two units maybe, but even with just one you have to consider it already a casualty, that if your lucky will draw a decent amount of fire away from your army's core and cause some CC disasters for an enemy unit that would rather be shooting.

I personally would never put a Warboss in a Trukk, in my personal experience it's a poor choice and a waste.  But that has just been my experience, yours may very well differ, and I know for a fact that Skeetergod will likely sing the praises of Trukkboyz when he sees your post.

Further ideas...
I really hope that I haven't given you the wrong idea, Orkz are an excellent add-on to an existing army, it's all a matter of knowing what you need and the Orks can provide it.  In truth I think they can generally provide a lot more than most armies, as I have found the Orks to have such a wide variety of possible builds, which in itself makes them great Allies for just about any force.  (No wonder Ork BloodAxe Mercenaries have survived in the Fluff all these years!)

Like I said in the beginning, knowing what your going to Ally these Orks with can actually be important and influential as to which choices to make.  For example if you need an ally that can fast respond to issues, or can just keep up, there is the option to take Wazzdakka (who moves Bikers to Troop Choices) backed by 2 Biker units, and possibly a group of Warbuggies or Koptas for some additional fast Anti-Tank.

Or if you know your own Troop choices are going to mostly be dedicated to attacking the enemy, but not great at holding Objectives you could grab Mad Dok Grotsnik allowing you to Cybork every Ork choice, and get a bunch of Cybergrots to hunkerdown on an objective.  Or if you know your opponents have difficulty knocking out 2+saves you can grab a Warboss + 1 unit of Troop Meganobz and a unit of Elite Meganobz.

You can even grab a Big Mek to provide a KFF over a couple large mobz to screen the rest of your forces, or even take the Big Mek to get an extra Orky Dreadnought.  Like I said, there's lots of Options that the Orks can bring to the table as allies, its just best to know exactly what you need/want.

Title: Re: Ork as Allies for a Shooting army, 300p-520p
Post by: Trokair on March 18, 2014, 05:50:33 AM
Thank you for your detailed reply.

My main army right now is Necrons, with 20 Warriors, 10 immortals, 5 Destroyers, a O or D lord and trimmings to fill out the points (Wraiths, Scarabs, Spyders, more Warriors, Lychguard). The Lychguard and Wraiths can make ok Combat units, but they are better dealing with small units that make it to my lines then going out to confront the enemy.

Depending what the new IG codex brings next month I might get my old force out. Armoured Fist x 2, Infantry platoon, Command Platoon, heavy weapon platoon, Russ, Hellhound, Basilisk. They could also take the Orks as allies, and could do with some combat units. Yes I know marines would be better in this case.

I also have a old tau army that I have been meaning to update. They are from when the tau first came out, so lots of Firewarriors, some 7 suits ( I think), 4 old style stealths, some kroot, devilvish and two Hammerhenads. So they could also use some combat allies, until I have gotten round to all the new toys from the last decade.

Bosspole, noted, will add one, or two. I take it one on the Warboss, what about one on a Nob in the Ardboys and Nobz unit?

The one concern I have about the Big Choppa is the lack of an AP value, hence why I went for the klaw.

I might not have made it clear enough, but both options have the trukk in them, so no footslogging Nobz. As for Cybork bodies, I did consider and liked the idea, but another 50 points for the unit seemed like a lot. Is it worth it?

I had not considered Nob bikers, how are they as a combat unit?
How does this look?

Warboss – Power Klaw, Attack Squig, Cybork Boddy, warbike, bosspole

7 Bike Nobz – Bikes, 1 Painboy, 1 Nob with Waaagh! Banner, 2 Nobz with Power Klaw, 3 Nobz.

Thanks again.

Title: Re: Ork as Allies for a Shooting army, 300p-520p
Post by: SKEETERGOD on March 19, 2014, 02:25:07 PM
Well then, we seem to be having a budding speed freak.


Orks are addictive, and you will never look at armies the same ever again. STEP AWAY FROM THE ORKS AND GO BACK TO PLAYING WITH NECRONS (you have been warned!!!)

Now, with that little disclaimer over with, lets get on with getting you hooked on orks.

For a 500 point allied force I would highly recommend your third choice of biker boss and seven nob bikers. I would drop one of the PK and use the points to give the rest big choppas. Why you ask? For starters the +2 strength allows them to chop their way through a lot of armor, most vehicles these days have a rear armor of 11 or less and S6 will get lots of pens. For the occasional higher AV then that is what you have the boss and one nob with PK for.

One thing about the nob bikers is their shooting, twin link dakka is such ork goodness you may soon find yourself with a whole army of ork bikers. But, beware, you may kill too many of the enemy putting you out of charge range, so choose your targets carefully.

Of course there is the green torpedo tactic, where the boss stays with the squad a turn or two to have the nobs absorb some incoming fire, then spits off to take out some AV14 thingy.

Use the speed of the bikers to get in close, then get into combat where it is safe, so that pesky S10 ordinance won't be killing off the nobs. However avoid getting into fights with death company dreads and assault terminators. Other than that there is not much out there that can withstand the charge of the biker nobs.

Now, when you are ready to grow your ork army, let me know, and I will help you with your truck boy loadouts and effective tactics.

My two teef
Title: Re: Ork as Allies for a Shooting army, 300p-520p
Post by: Trokair on March 19, 2014, 05:28:25 PM
Thanks for the replies. I guess nob bikers it is, if I can make the budget work.

Regarding Big Choppas, doesn’t the lack of AP compared to PK mean they actually kill fewer enemies?
Title: Re: Ork as Allies for a Shooting army, 300p-520p
Post by: SKEETERGOD on March 20, 2014, 11:35:53 AM
As for your big choppa question, let us look at what you get with the nob on the charge with Waagh banna. You get +1 WS so most things you are hitting on 3s, then with the strength bonus of the big choppa you are wounding on 2s. The +1 attack on the charge means you are getting 4 attacks with a 90% probability of wounding. A seven nob squad should average 17 wounds. That is a lot of saves. Not to mention that the "I" will be either simo with most things or just slightly better than others.

While the PK swings at I1. Allowing the majority of your attacks to be wasted as the nobs will die before they get to attack.

 The nobs are also really good at taking out dreads of most sorts (except death company dreads) the big choppa gives you the strength to glance it to death. Since they are fast you can catch skimmers and other fast transports too. It is a hoot to take out baal preds before they can flame your army to ashes  ;D

So, try it, you'll like it.