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Offline Calamity

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Some IG Infantry Ideas
« on: February 4, 2016, 04:10:06 PM »
With the tremendous level of feedback and debate I got from the IG tank thread, I thought I'd try the same with the Infantry.  Fingers crossed!  ;D

It's clear that Veteran squads are the preferred choice of troops for the IG.  They're pretty close to perfect as they are, so there's little I would suggest for them, beyond adjusting Harker to make him like the old days of 5th.

Platoons, abhumans and Scions on the other hand don't get much love at all.  And I know it's because they're too expense and not effective enough.  So I'm going to try and fix that.

For platoons, I have a few minor suggestions before the big change:

Increase the wound characteristic of the commander to 2.  In other armies a character in this position would be an independent one and have multiple wounds, so let's bring them into line with that.

Change platoon standards to "friendly units from Codex:AM within 12 inches of the standard may reroll failed fear, morale and pinning tests", and change regimental standards to the same, but the units also receive +1 Attack.  Yes, just like marine standards.  And why not?  They're literally the same thing, and can mean the same for both armies.  I'm sure regimental standards invoke memories and pride of their homeworld etc.

Let all units (even conscripts) in an IG platoon purchase Camo Gear at +1pt per model.  It's a small, easy way to let you make the first and only, and would help your troops advance into the open.

Let conscripts take vox casters.  I can't understand why they can't at present.  Write it as one for every ten models in the unit.

Those are just little tweaks though.  Here are my big suggestions to fundamentally fix platoons:

Let's do something about the infantry squad tax.  I don't know if it should be reduced to 1 squad, or if it should be changed to two units in general (so a platoon of 1 PCS, 1 heavy weapon squad and 1 conscript squad would be perfectly legal), but it would help with the issue of platoons being expensive because you have to buy multiple units.

And this is going to be very controversial, but what if the three senior officer only orders...were no longer senior officer only?  What if all models with the Voice Of Command rule could issue these orders?  Platoon commanders (both infantry and scion) would become massively more useful.  Maybe useful enough to make platoons a competitive choice in comparison to vets?

Finally, I think heavy weapon squads should be able to combine together.

What do you guys think?


Offline Exarch Thomo

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Re: Some IG Infantry Ideas
« Reply #1 on: February 5, 2016, 03:04:07 AM »
It wasn't an issue in the old codex because vets weren't a troop choice. If Vets went back to elite, and platoons got access to camo/carapace again I would be happy with that. I think that's the bigger issue, the lack of choice. If you want to play a recon force or heavy infantry then you have to use vets.

With the conscripts I think it's not so much that they shouldn't get a vox but more that they lack the discipline and training to act on the orders properly. conscripts aren't trained soldiers. They've been given rudimentary training and that's it.

I don't have an issue, either, with your idea with the orders, but to differentiate between platoon and company commanders, perhaps the company commander gains a bonus to the test, or a re-roll.

I don't like the idea of combining the heavy weapon squads though. The footprint for that would be huge and unwieldy and they are still quite squishy.


Offline khaine

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Re: Some IG Infantry Ideas
« Reply #2 on: February 5, 2016, 01:09:35 PM »
Increase the wound characteristic of the commander to 2.  In other armies a character in this position would be an independent one and have multiple wounds, so let's bring them into line with that.

And this is going to be very controversial, but what if the three senior officer only orders...were no longer senior officer only?  What if all models with the Voice Of Command rule could issue these orders?  Platoon commanders (both infantry and scion) would become massively more useful.

How about an upgrade option for the Platoon Commander that gave him both? That way you could still go cheap swarm platoon or look to upgrade to a more elite verion.

Change platoon standards to "friendly units from Codex:AM within 12 inches of the standard may reroll failed fear, morale and pinning tests", and change regimental standards to the same, but the units also receive +1 Attack.  Yes, just like marine standards.  And why not?  They're literally the same thing, and can mean the same for both armies.  I'm sure regimental standards invoke memories and pride of their homeworld etc.

I agree that standards need something done to them, I'm not sure making them the same as the Marine versions is the way to go. Some unique Regimental standards that provide a bonus based on different types of regiments would be intresting, but would be more of an extra set of rules rather than a small tweak.


Let all units (even conscripts) in an IG platoon purchase Camo Gear at +1pt per model.  It's a small, easy way to let you make the first and only, and would help your troops advance into the open.

The problem with this would be the moment you start comboing it with defence lines and/or shrouded and stealth. I like the idea, could be open to abuse.


Let conscripts take vox casters.  I can't understand why they can't at present.  Write it as one for every ten models in the unit.

Meh... No reason why not, but at the same time no real reason to give them voxs.



Let's do something about the infantry squad tax.  I don't know if it should be reduced to 1 squad, or if it should be changed to two units in general (so a platoon of 1 PCS, 1 heavy weapon squad and 1 conscript squad would be perfectly legal), but it would help with the issue of platoons being expensive because you have to buy multiple units.

Again mixed feelings. For the sake of saveing 50pts on a Platoons cost I don't see a real reason to make the change, I could however see the return of the Heavy Weapons platoon as a heavy support option (Command with 2 heavy weapon and no special weapon slots+ 2-5 Heavy Weapon squads)

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Offline Calamity

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Re: Some IG Infantry Ideas
« Reply #3 on: February 5, 2016, 02:42:53 PM »
It wasn't an issue in the old codex because vets weren't a troop choice. If Vets went back to elite, and platoons got access to camo/carapace again I would be happy with that. I think that's the bigger issue, the lack of choice. If you want to play a recon force or heavy infantry then you have to use vets.

Since they're still ordinary guardsmen (to a degree), I don't think Vets should be moved back to the elite section.  Besides, if they were put there, the other elites would suffer even more.  They're underused as it is already.  ;)

With the conscripts I think it's not so much that they shouldn't get a vox but more that they lack the discipline and training to act on the orders properly. conscripts aren't trained soldiers. They've been given rudimentary training and that's it.

Of course, but this is easily represented by their poor Leadership value.

I don't have an issue, either, with your idea with the orders, but to differentiate between platoon and company commanders, perhaps the company commander gains a bonus to the test, or a re-roll.

Company Commanders would still have the Senior Officer rule, so there is that I guess.  I was tempted to increase the range of their orders but I'm trying to keep things simple and under control.

I don't like the idea of combining the heavy weapon squads though. The footprint for that would be huge and unwieldy and they are still quite squishy.

Fair points I guess. 

For a while, I was looking at allowing Heavy Weapon Squads to combine with Infantry Squads but that probably wouldn't work.

How about an upgrade option for the Platoon Commander that gave him both? That way you could still go cheap swarm platoon or look to upgrade to a more elite verion.

That's a viable option.

I agree that standards need something done to them, I'm not sure making them the same as the Marine versions is the way to go. Some unique Regimental standards that provide a bonus based on different types of regiments would be intresting, but would be more of an extra set of rules rather than a small tweak.

I will admit that it is terribly unoriginal.  :P  But since they're basically the same thing I thought that it only makes sense that they have the same effects.  Unique regimental standards are best left to supplements in my opinion though.  Unless it was a crusade banner or something.

The problem with this would be the moment you start comboing it with defence lines and/or shrouded and stealth. I like the idea, could be open to abuse.

I see your point, but I'm not sure what safeguards could be put in.

Meh... No reason why not, but at the same time no real reason to give them voxs.

It's only a little change.  Besides, some might like to order them to FRFSRF, and this would help with that.

Again mixed feelings. For the sake of saveing 50pts on a Platoons cost I don't see a real reason to make the change, I could however see the return of the Heavy Weapons platoon as a heavy support option (Command with 2 heavy weapon and no special weapon slots+ 2-5 Heavy Weapon squads)

I forgot about that platoon type.

Also, the dedicated transport options for platoons bother me.  Should Heavy and Special Weapon squads get their own transports?

Offline Spectral Arbor

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Re: Some IG Infantry Ideas
« Reply #4 on: February 5, 2016, 06:48:32 PM »
I agree that Vets are pretty good as they are, with the exception that Harker is useless. Makes me mad, since I made a custom Harker model. Grr. But then I also made a custom Captain Al, and a custom Marbo... I hate this codex.

Fixes for the Platoons?

An extra wound on the Commander would be a nice touch, but that's not so much a problem as a failure to recognize the general chain of things. Higher up the command chain, you get extra wounds. :)

What I find to be difficult these days is that attrition doesn't win. We aren't able to soak a round of fire, or two, while we then retaliate. I find we're being all-but deleted, even 20-strong units, in one round. I haven't had a 20-man unit survive more than two rounds of shooting with all upgrade weapons remaining. Usually they're outright destroyed. Since they're slow, my opponents are striking first [per normal] but I generally only get one round of retaliation fire at full upgrade-pop, meaning I can no longer engage in multi-turn wound exchanges... that I used to come out on top of. Biggest reason is need to advance out of cover, and even when in cover, Ig-Co has become a major concern outside of the typical flamers.

So I'm running Carapace on everything. Because then I can somewhat engage in those age-old casualty exchanges. Plus, I can more easily play the modern game of wipe-a-mole so you can't be retaliated against. Extra Special Weapons are key. Heavy Weapons are taken... but mostly just in case I actually get to my objective, I can then benefit from the extra firepower.

Platoon Infantry could benefit from taking a second special weapon, if they don't take a Heavy. That could help. Mostly, if they could take Carapace I'd take them again, but the second Special option would increase their effective use as a cheaper screen that can still output hurt.
« Last Edit: February 5, 2016, 06:49:41 PM by Spectral Arbor »

Offline Exarch Thomo

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Re: Some IG Infantry Ideas
« Reply #5 on: February 5, 2016, 11:28:36 PM »

Since they're still ordinary guardsmen (to a degree), I don't think Vets should be moved back to the elite section.  Besides, if they were put there, the other elites would suffer even more.  They're underused as it is already.  ;)

Totally agree the other elites are under-utilised, but this, I think is more a problem with them than the Vets (I'm looking at you, Ogryns).

Another idea I just had though - what if vets were incorporated into a platoon (kind of like an extra special weapon squad)? So an infantry platoon must contain a PCS and a minimum of 2 other units which can consist of 1-5 Infantry squads, 0-1 Conscripts, 0-1 vets etc. 

Gives a reason to use platoons, can tie in with formations easily, differentiates between the tempestus squads easily (and keeps them as the elite), The vets then would be able to benefit from any PCS orders as well...

With the conscripts I think it's not so much that they shouldn't get a vox but more that they lack the discipline and training to act on the orders properly. conscripts aren't trained soldiers. They've been given rudimentary training and that's it.

Of course, but this is easily represented by their poor Leadership value.

Again, I still don't understand the need for conscripts to get access to orders. The low LD is representative of their poor discipline, but doesn't reflect their lack of training. Not being able to use orders does. These guys have literally just been given a lasgun and herded out the door. They might be able to, maybe, march together and if they're lucky, not shoot themselves when they fire. Coordination with other, full-time military units? Not so much. They're cannon fodder. They may not know it, but the rest of the army does.

As for transport options for the specialist squads, can't see why not.

And I do miss the dedicated Heavy Weapons platoons.

I also wouldn't mind seeing basic guard units get the choice between a heavy weapon or additional special weapon.

Offline Calamity

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Re: Some IG Infantry Ideas
« Reply #6 on: February 6, 2016, 07:55:11 AM »
@ Spectral Arbor

My issue with letting them take carapace armor is that everyone would take it all the time, and then the image of a guardsman in flak armor wouldn't exist anymore.  Plus, I'm overly fond of the idea of Carapace armor being limited to Officers (more on this in a moment) and specialized grenadier or combat engineer squads.

But you're absolutely right when it comes to their survive ability.  So how about this idea; let Infantry Squads, Conscript Squads (and Veteran and ordinary Scion Squads) buy Medi Packs.  It's a simple way to let flak armored troopers actually get an armor save against most shooting weapons, and it's fluffy.  It bothers me that the only medics in the army are limited to the command squads.  Actually, GW has a problem with medics in general.  Apothecaries for example, in my opinion, should be independent characters like Tech priests, going were they are needed, and Tau should have Medical Drones for their squads.  But, I digress...

@ Exarch Thomo

I always imagined that Conscripts were simply put through basic training (a few weeks-months) then given basic equipment before being sent out, as opposed to full Guardsmen who have a few years experience under their belt in their respective PDFs before joining the Astra Militarum.  Either way, Conscripts should be able to use Orders.  All IG infantry should be able to, even Ogyrns.  I think the names of the Orders are just for our sake, and in reality the Officer is actively guiding the troops.  When confronted by a tank for example, he doesn't just shout Bring It Down.  Because 'how?!!', his troops might wonder.  Instead, he says to aim for the tracks/engine pods etc. Or if the officer doesn't order this, to Sgt leading the squad certainly does.  Which conscripts might struggle to do with their poor Ballistic and Leadership Skills and lack of squad leader.

Anyway, I am definitely open to the idea of Veterans being taken as part of an Infantry Platoon.  In fact, if we do this, I think Special Weapon Squads could be phased out then, because Veterans just do it so much better in every way.  ;)

But do we still allow them to be fielded as an independent squads?  One thing that bugs me about the guard at present is, if you field a veteran heavy unit, you have the Sergeants and then the company commander and that's it.  There's no Platoon Commanders, no secondary officers.  None.  :P

And if vets were in Platoons, might this mean then that the Platoon Command Squad needs to be upgraded to Veteran level?

Offline Spectral Arbor

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Re: Some IG Infantry Ideas
« Reply #7 on: February 6, 2016, 10:06:39 AM »
I'm completely down with Medics, but if you're worried about a 100% auto-include item... that would be it. :)

It's hard for me to make too many hard suggestions for 40k at the moment because I'm hoping the core rules will change sometime soon, to allow a wider selection of strategies back into the game. I wouldn't know if they'd change FNP in the future, and if they did, would it be stronger or weaker?

I genuinely have no problems with Medics, because they'd be even more awesome with Carapace Vets. I'm kind of sick of the push to make moar models the answer to Guard's issues. I'd like to have some survivable units, even if they're more expensive points wise. It may not be fluffy, but IG's fluffy way of playing is no more. *shrug*

Before folding Vets into the Platoon Structure, we already have a tough time with the numbers that are needed to be fielded in a small game. One of the Benefits of Vets is that your minimum troops cost goes to 120 pts + gear, where the same minimum for two platoons is 260 pts + gear.

Offline Calamity

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Re: Some IG Infantry Ideas
« Reply #8 on: February 6, 2016, 12:37:13 PM »
Yes it's true, 'Line' medics would be an auto-include, despite the costs.  But, it's one that I can live with because it fits the fluff well.  With medics, the poor bloody infantry are still going down in pain.  And now we have the medics frantically scrambling to get to them and save them, to get them back on their feet.  It's all very Saving Private Ryan. 

But if we allowed ordinary guardsmen to take carapace armor, they could suddenly wade into enemy fire with more confidence, and the image of the flak armored guardsman hiding in cover would disappear off the board completely, and that would be a shame imo.  Restricting Carapace also makes the Stormtrooper/Grenadier/Combat Engineer units seem more elite and therefore, cool.  8)


Offline Spectral Arbor

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Re: Some IG Infantry Ideas
« Reply #9 on: February 6, 2016, 01:31:42 PM »
Fair points, but who's using Flak+Cover now? And assuming that the ideas you have are part of the Platoon structure... which they might not be, but assuming they are... who's going to do that when Vets can do it all without the tax?

Rule of cool still needs to be good on the tabletop, unless you want to force platoons into the Decurion as the "tax". If Vets can take Carapace + FNP, why take Platoons without that Carapace? Cover has become unreliable in 7th, where it was practically assured in 5th and mostly in 6th. The game has changed in so many subtle ways.

Offline Calamity

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Re: Some IG Infantry Ideas
« Reply #10 on: February 7, 2016, 11:17:44 AM »
Yes, the ideas I have would be for the platoon structure.

It is difficult to find the balance I know.  Vets currently do it better than platoons for cheaper.  I just don't think that giving platoons access to carapace armor is the way to go.  Everyone would go for it all the time and it would change the image of the guard way too much.  They would lose a lot of their character if they could just slap on Carapace Armor and shrug off boltgun fire.

But I'm determined to find a way around it.  What about a points decrease?  Reduce the PCS to 20pts, infantry squads to 40pts, and heavy weapon squads to 30pts (special weapon squads and conscript squads can remain the same).  If we were to leave the platoon structure alone, a basic platoon consisting of a PCS and two infantry squads would now come in at a handy 100pts. 

Lets kit this platoon out with some typical gear, including the new options we discussed.  Each infantry squad gets an autocannon, plasma gun, and camo gear, and one gets a medi-pack and vox caster.   That's 170pts.  Then the Command Squad gets two plasma guns, a vox caster, camo gear and a standard (because they're useful now).  That's 75pts.  Altogether, that's 245pts for 25 men with two heavy weapons and four special weapons with a vox caster network, a morale boosting banner and camo gear to make the most of cover.  65pts more expensive than a veteran squad with twin plasma guns, the grenadier doctrine and a medi-pack in a chimera. 

For those extra points, you'll get more than double the model count, much more firepower, re-rolls for morale based tests and access to orders.  And lets face it, that is a platoon with a lot of bling.  If you took the camo gear, medi-pack and banner out of it, it would only come to 195pts, 15pts more expensive than the vets.  For the benefits, I think it's worth it.
« Last Edit: February 7, 2016, 11:32:12 AM by Captain Calamity »

Offline Spectral Arbor

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Re: Some IG Infantry Ideas
« Reply #11 on: February 7, 2016, 11:43:10 AM »
That's apples and oranges, Tangi.

We could go 2x Vets with [total] 4x Plasma, 2x AC with Carapace, 2x Vox and 2x Medic [15 pts per medic?] for 210.

Those guys a touch less expensive, and if they need to move out of cover, are MUCH more survivable. If we want to make dedicated cover huggers [not so great in my metagame] then we still have the same number of big guns, better BS and less susceptibility to having a special duder sniped by good placement or a precision shot. Not that that's a big concern of mine, but there is something to be said for redundancy. If we sub down to Camo, we're looking at 200 points, compared to 245. The Plasma in the CCS is super vulnerable. You have one "spare" wound there. One chump, and after that you're either losing your source of orders, the guy that lets you reroll, or a Plasmagun. Command squads make poor Special Weapon squads due to, well, not being survivable, and having expensive points per casualty rates.

If we then decide to take a CCS whose purpose is to hide out of LOS and give orders to the Vets, then we'd be comparing 265, after the Vox. So for 25 more points we've got higher BS and better orders. Admittedly, you can't blob Vets, but if you blob Platoons you "need" to buy a Character to boost Ld.

I'd still run Vets in that scenario. :(

The problem isn't with Platoons. The problem is with the win conditions of 7th making "immobile" units take points away from your win condition units. Platoons would need a cheap "mass transit" option to make them viable. Something armed to root enemies out of cover, so that the Platoon could move in and take over. Something like the Super-Heavy that lets you carry large numbers. Or maybe like that floating Tau Shield-wall? I don't know much about it, but something along that line would certainly help.

Heavy weapons don't mesh well with moving, where Platoons used to be a reasonable balance of firepower and durability, they now lack critical mobility. Is what it is.
« Last Edit: February 7, 2016, 11:51:32 AM by Spectral Arbor »

Offline Calamity

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Re: Some IG Infantry Ideas
« Reply #12 on: February 7, 2016, 01:15:53 PM »
It's true, we need a mass transit option.  We have two super heavies that can perform this role but they are expensive and huge.  Bullgyrns can form a literal shield wall but they too are currently very expensive.  But I think that they deserve a points decrease too, so that's something I guess.

About abhumans; both Ogyrn units need a points decrease, and Ratlings could do with some unit options to get the best out of them.

For ordinary Ogyrn squads, let's try lowering the base cost to 100pts, with extra Ogyrns costing 30pts each.  Bullgyrns can be dropped to 130pts, with

For Ratlings, let's try raising their base cost to 35pts, and including a Ratling Sergeant type unit (with increased Attacks and Leadership) as part of the standard unit.  My wip title for this model is a Fixer, using the existing lore.  Then, give them the option to take a vox caster, medi-pack, camo gear and snare mines.  The first two are perfectly fine for them imo, as they are smart and trained enough to use them, and now they'll enact orders much better now too.  For the other two, I'm surprised they don't already have them, when I imagine that Ratlings would teach vets how to use these things.  Either way, they allow you to improve on their strengths for a small cost.

For platoons, I don't know what else to do about them.

Offline Spectral Arbor

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Re: Some IG Infantry Ideas
« Reply #13 on: February 7, 2016, 03:01:12 PM »
Well, I'm afraid I don't have much to offer you short of rescind options for Vets, which doesn't seem like a good idea at all.

For what it's worth! We're not going to agree on ways to fix the Dex. We're approaching it from different angles, with different end goals. My view is to create a sort of mono-build that contains all of the required components. I'm not interested in getting "seldom used" units to be better. I'm interested in filling roles so that the combined battlefield "competence" is sufficient to compete in 7th's ruleset.

For example, Ratlings are pretty good at what they do, but they aren't necessary for a game winning strategy, so they don't get used. In my view. Ogryns need to be better in their role, to make them outshine allied Dreads, at this point. In the elite slot, Scions need to be better than Vets, and Vets are already better than Platoon infantry... so if you make Scions better than Vets, you'll be making Platoon squads really... obsolete? Not sure the exact word to use. Psykers have a pretty solid formation now. What they need is, no surprise, a way to survive and still cast spells. You can only use [crappy] witchfire powers when embarked in a transport.

Taking my "needs to work towards a winning strategy in 7th" approach, Rattlings would need to fill a role like SM Scouts, by making them troops. Then you've got Troop units with faux-mobility in their Infiltration ability.

I also have no issue with "Why don't XXX troop have this cool gear or ability?" Because I'm more concerned with a functional tabletop army, regardless of other armies' abilities or gear.

So I'd be fine with making Scions have an Assault 2, S4, 18", AP3 gun. I don't even think it should get hot. Give them Infiltrate and / or Deep strike. Make them worth more than a Marine. That's fine. It's a game. I don't care that a regular human can do something that Superhumans don't do in the game.

So yeah, we're not going to agree on how to rework the codex, because we come at it from two different perspectives with two different objectives.

Offline Calamity

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Re: Some IG Infantry Ideas
« Reply #14 on: February 9, 2016, 12:26:29 PM »
So yeah, we're not going to agree on how to rework the codex, because we come at it from two different perspectives with two different objectives.

Don't be so sure.  ;)

You actually gave me a great idea with the Ratlings, and by extension, the Ogyrns/Bulgyrns.  What if they were removed from the Elites section and instead placed within an Infantry Platoon? I'm fine with getting rid of Special Weapon Squads to allow them to fit in, because Vets really put those units to shame.  So the Platoon Structure would look like this:

1 PCS
2-5 Infantry Squads (we might still need to do something about the tax.  Reduce to one squad?)
0-5 Heavy Weapon Squads
0-1 Conscript Squad
0-1 Ogyrn Squad
0-1 Bullgyrn Squad
0-1 Ratling Squad

Throw in a points decrease for the two Ogyrn units, and all those extra options for Ratling Squads, and in one fell swoop the abhumans become more useful (objective secured) and Platoons become a bit more important, as the only way to get abhuman support.

I can easily see abhuman units being attached at the platoon level.  This idea would really reinforce the idea of a platoon being an army within an army that GW seem to be going for.  And it's also a bit Roman Army too.

It is very controversial though.  And it leaves us with only Scions and Pyskers in the elites section. 

Offline Spectral Arbor

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Re: Some IG Infantry Ideas
« Reply #15 on: February 9, 2016, 09:17:36 PM »
You don't need to worry about Psykers... taking them outside the Psykana Division is wasted points. :)

So you've only really got Scions left, and GW made a whole codex for them.

As to the abhumans... 0-3 might work better. A single unit of Ratlings is like a single unit of Scouts. Dead. But 3, infiltrated to objectives? That's getting tastier. But you've still got the whole need to take the rest of the Platoon.

You'd need a gold-standard unit in there, to make taking a Platoon-tax worthwhile. You still have to make the whole better than taking a similar points worth of Vets.

I think this is a good track here. Don't get me wrong. But if PCS + 2x ISq is not the equal of Vets, then the "post-tax" units need to be better than Vets to make them worthwhile.

Consider, that I can take a Techmarine + 5x Camo Sniper Scouts for 120 points [Giving me a Cover Boost and an Infiltrating non-ObSec unit] and I can then start taking 1-6 Drop Pods at 35 points a pop. The Scouts are a decent value, slightly more than half, and the TM can be attached to a unit to boost Ld, give ATSKNF, and be a bullet sponge if need be with his Artificer Armour. So while there's a "tax" its a pretty decent value... and now your Vets have Pods for deployment.

So the Platoon Tax + Abhumans needs to be better than Blood Angel Tax [decent value for most Guard armies] + Pod-Vets.

Again, if you're looking to try to balance the in-game value of the two troop choices. Which may not be your objective, and I'm not trying to be down on a different way of doing things.


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Re: Some IG Infantry Ideas
« Reply #16 on: February 14, 2016, 04:34:33 PM »
Sorry for the late reply.  I've been really busy.

I still don't know how to make a platoon the equal of a squad of vets.  My mind is just drawing a blank.  Well, I've got some ideas but they're probably crazy.  Free transports etc.  Crazy.

But do know this; Ogyrns are severely overpriced.  And I mean severely.  I've run some numbers and honestly, they aren't even great assault troops, nor are they that tough either.  In high enough numbers, boltguns will still drop them as easily as Guardsmen.  And high strength Tau weaponry or poisoned Dark Eldar weaponry?  Forget about it.  Bullgyrns are marginally better due to the Carapace Armour, but are still not that great.  To finish matters off, they have poor Initiative, which is never great for assault troops.  And, they have no effective delivery systems without allies.  They need a massive discount.  And if they were moved to being part of an infantry platoon they could possibly be even cheaper due to the squad tax.

I get the feeling though that 15pts for regular Ogyrns and 20 for a Bonehead (making a total of 50pts for a mimimum sized squad) is too cheap? :P

 


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