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Author Topic: Improving Warlord Traits  (Read 1733 times)

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Offline Calamity

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Improving Warlord Traits
« on: April 3, 2015, 03:26:45 PM »
What I learnt from this thread is that the Personal Traits could do with some help to make them more competitive in comparison to the other BRB trait tables.  So I'm going to give it a shot.  8)

So, Master of Defense.  As it is it's definitely meh.  And I have a number of suggestions to improve it.  Replace what it is with one of the following:

- if the warlord and their unit is not locked in combat, any charge made against them will be be a disordered charge.
- if the warlord and their unit is not locked in combat, any enemy unit launching an assault against them must reduce their range by d3 inches.
- the warlord and their unit may make an overwatch attack against all units that declare an assault on them, not just one.

Which one is best?  Are these appropriate?  Does anyone else have any suggestions?

Master of Offense.  Change it to, 'your Warlord has the Counter Attack and Furious Charge special rules'.  This still seems meh to me.  What do you think?

Master of Manoeuvre.  Change it to, 'your Warlord has the Acute Senses and Scout' special rules.  Does this seem appropriate?

Legendary Fighter.  I'm actually at a loss to improve this.  A bonus to combat resolution (say, +1?) in addition to it's current effects?  Any suggestions?

For Tenacity, change it to, 'your Warlord has the Feel No Pain and Stubborn special rules'.  Now it feels like a slightly less powerful Immovable Object, which seems appropriate.

And finally there's Immovable Object.  I think that there's no change needed, as this one actually works pretty well in my opinion.

How do these all look?

Offline Spectral Arbor

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Re: Improving Warlord Traits
« Reply #1 on: April 3, 2015, 11:25:59 PM »
Reducing range is a Random-on-top-of-Random thing, which I despise. Overwatch against multiple units doesn't make sense, in my mind, as they'd be cracking off shots at other units while fighting something already. Kind of like being able to fight in CC but also able to shoot at someone in the shooting phase... it just wouldn't work for me.

If you want them to be truly Masterfully Defensive, give them counter-charge and count all charges against them as disordered. Take that, Death Company! In your face! Alternatively, let them buff a piece of terrain, like a Techmarine. That seems like a sensible thing to do, if you're defensively minded.

Counter Assault for Mo Offence doesn't make sense, as it's a defensive ability. I'd rather see Rage, Furious Charge,  Rampage, or combinations thereof.

Legendary Fighter could get Reroll misses and/or Wounds in a challenge. In it's current state, the bonus VP is so powerful that I doubt anyone would accept their challenge, given the option. It impacts the game result, not just the combat.

Tenacity is good, Stubborn wouldn't hurt.

Immovable object seems fine.


For myself, it's not so much that they need buffing, but that there are many things that aren't useful to me. As a BA player, if I get charged, something went wrong. I already get FC. No-one would accept the challenge if they thought they'd lose a VP. My warlord [Sanguinary Priest] already has FNP. So buffing them helps a bit, but still wouldn't draw me to them personally. Get it? Personally? Personal Traits? *Laughs.*
« Last Edit: April 3, 2015, 11:29:55 PM by Spectral Arbor »

Offline Calamity

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Re: Improving Warlord Traits
« Reply #2 on: April 4, 2015, 12:02:17 AM »
Reducing range is a Random-on-top-of-Random thing, which I despise. Overwatch against multiple units doesn't make sense, in my mind, as they'd be cracking off shots at other units while fighting something already. Kind of like being able to fight in CC but also able to shoot at someone in the shooting phase... it just wouldn't work for me.

I think you're right.  Both are too clunky and violate my 'keep it simple' ethos.   :P

If you want them to be truly Masterfully Defensive, give them counter-charge and count all charges against them as disordered. Take that, Death Company! In your face! Alternatively, let them buff a piece of terrain, like a Techmarine. That seems like a sensible thing to do, if you're defensively minded.

The second one, the terrain buff, although a great idea, sounds more like a 'stratgetic' or 'tactical' skill rather than a personal one.  It would be something that's done before the battle and stays in one place rather than following the Warlord around like the others.  But the first one sounds like a great idea!  Something like:

-if the warlord and their unit is not locked in combat, any charge made against them will be be a disordered charge.  In addition, the warlord has the Counter Attack special rule.

That's not too clunky is it?

Counter Assault for Mo Offence doesn't make sense, as it's a defensive ability. I'd rather see Rage, Furious Charge,  Rampage, or combinations thereof.

I was considering Hammer Of Wrath for a while but I changed my mind at the last moment.  How does that sound?  If not that, Rage or Rampage could work too.  I'm in favor of Rampage myself.

Legendary Fighter could get Reroll misses and/or Wounds in a challenge. In it's current state, the bonus VP is so powerful that I doubt anyone would accept their challenge, given the option. It impacts the game result, not just the combat.

Due to a lack of recent gaming experience, I actually forgot how powerful this trait potentially is.  I can see how people would avoid taking up a challenge from this Warlord, so Rerolls do sound good, in addition to the VP bonus.

Tenacity is good, Stubborn wouldn't hurt.

Immovable object seems fine.

Great, I'm glad to read that.  :)

Are the new Master Of Manoeuvre rules OK?

For myself, it's not so much that they need buffing, but that there are many things that aren't useful to me. As a BA player, if I get charged, something went wrong. I already get FC. No-one would accept the challenge if they thought they'd lose a VP. My warlord [Sanguinary Priest] already has FNP. So buffing them helps a bit, but still wouldn't draw me to them personally. Get it? Personally? Personal Traits? *Laughs.*

That's a good one.  ;)

You raise an interesting point though, about how the usefulness depends upon what skills your army already possesses.  Some trait tables will never be useful to a particular army, but that's no problem.  So long as every table is useful to somebody, and remains competitive with the others, then imo it works.

Are there any Codex tables that could do with a reworking?  I hear that the Vanilla Marine one is a bit sub par.
« Last Edit: April 4, 2015, 12:03:32 AM by Tangi »

Offline Spectral Arbor

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Re: Improving Warlord Traits
« Reply #3 on: April 4, 2015, 12:28:01 AM »
I missed Master of Manoeuvre. :)

I'd say that's good. Gives you options between being an "accurate" outflanker, or at least getting a head start on things.

This particular option is one of those things, though, that make the Personal Traits hard to take advantage of. Something like Outflank is only "awesome" if you're outflanking with other things. Otherwise, you're just kind of a target. The reason Captain Al was awesome wasn't that he was allowed to outflank by himself, but his whole platoon showed up with him.

If you can't plan to Outflank, the ability is mediocre to suicidal, depending on opponent. Scout helps some, but again, one unit that moves forward faster just sets itself apart as a target to deal with first.

The whole Personal Traits could be improved by extending the influence of the abilities to all models within 6", representing the Warlord's powerful influence on his immediate followers. Alternatively, make all of the skills effect his unit, though I like the models within 6" better. Given the focus on CC, it encourages him to lead multiple units into CC, not just his own squad. The Command Traits already extend to units within 12", representing the Warlord's issuing orders to nearby squads. Ideally, less powerful buffs spread across more units. Strategic traits influence the entire army, through unusual strategems or experience. Ideally, the weakest buffs spread across the most units.

If your Warlord isn't a Melee Beast, the Personal traits are garbage. The Command Traits are great if your Warlord is part of a handful of units that are moving together... towards Melee. My BA Sanguinary Priest + Sang Guard loves this table, moving along with a bunch of units that get handy buffs to help them get to assault, help to sweep enemies in assault, or increase their damage output. The Strategic Traits are ok, and are the best option if you don't want your Warlord to charge into melee. My IG only roll on this table, because they don't encourage you to charge into assault. Not that the traits are overtly amazing, but the other tables suck if you want to avoid melee.

Offline Calamity

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Re: Improving Warlord Traits
« Reply #4 on: April 4, 2015, 03:20:56 PM »
I missed Master of Manoeuvre. :)

I'd say that's good. Gives you options between being an "accurate" outflanker, or at least getting a head start on things.

This particular option is one of those things, though, that make the Personal Traits hard to take advantage of. Something like Outflank is only "awesome" if you're outflanking with other things. Otherwise, you're just kind of a target. The reason Captain Al was awesome wasn't that he was allowed to outflank by himself, but his whole platoon showed up with him.

If you can't plan to Outflank, the ability is mediocre to suicidal, depending on opponent. Scout helps some, but again, one unit that moves forward faster just sets itself apart as a target to deal with first.

Thanks!  The versatility is what I was hoping for.  You're right about Outflank and Scout though.  They do require forward planning.  But don't forget, with the way Scout is written, the Warlord brings along their unit too, including any dedicated transports they might have.  I'm sure there's a way people could make that useful. 

The whole Personal Traits could be improved by extending the influence of the abilities to all models within 6", representing the Warlord's powerful influence on his immediate followers. Alternatively, make all of the skills effect his unit, though I like the models within 6" better. Given the focus on CC, it encourages him to lead multiple units into CC, not just his own squad. The Command Traits already extend to units within 12", representing the Warlord's issuing orders to nearby squads. Ideally, less powerful buffs spread across more units. Strategic traits influence the entire army, through unusual strategems or experience. Ideally, the weakest buffs spread across the most units.

I see the potential with this bubble effect idea, but what about things like Outflank?  And if it could be made to work, I'd change Command Traits to it effects one unit a turn anywhere on the board.  I fear all this may be becoming too complicated though.  I like things simple me.  ;)

 


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