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Author Topic: 1st Turn Ogryn Charge... with a Twist ;)  (Read 5201 times)

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Offline MRC

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1st Turn Ogryn Charge... with a Twist ;)
« on: July 10, 2009, 10:04:54 PM »
I have an idea which might surprise a few IG opponents. Must have the first turn/enemy must not sieze the initiative for this to work.

First, take Creed an HQ. Second, get 6 Ogryn with a Chimera transport and deploy them inside the Chimera. Chimera should me deployed right up against the 12" deployment line WITH THE REAR HATCH FACING THE ENEMY.

Now, grant the Chimera a Scout move using Creed's Tactical Genius rule.... move the Chimera 12" toward the enemy so that is just over 12" away (back hatch still facing the enemy). Scout move over. Now Turn 1 begins. Disembark Ogryn so they are 2" away from the Chimera's access point, making them just over 10" away from the enemy deployment zone. Next, do their normal 6" move, taking them to within just over 4" of the enemy deployment zone.

Finally, have them charge any enemy vehicle/unit that is deployed along the enemy deployment zone. That is 25 S6 attacks. Against a vehicle, it will hit the rear armor (usually AV 10) and all 25 attacks will hit, since the vehicle has not moved yet.... high chance of destroying the vehicle. Against enemy infantry, you can shoot first (18 BS3 S5 shots can at least inflict a few wounds) and then charge with the 25 S6 attacks. This is especially effective against powerful enemy units that you want to tie up for a couple of turns so they cannot move toward your gun line (i.e. Ork Nob Bikerz, Seer Councils, Nid Warriors, Necron Immortals, Harlequins, Bezerkers, etc.)

Perhaps most important is the psychological impact. What player expects to be charged on turn 1 by Imperial Guard? Much less by Ogryn! ;) Can kind of throw their plans in disarray and give your gunline time to sit tight and blow everything away from long-distance in true "Hammer of the Emperor" style

Offline Black Hawk

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Re: 1st Turn Ogryn Charge... with a Twist ;)
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2009, 10:22:47 PM »
Actually I think you misunderstood the Scout rule. Scouting means that the unit that has the special rule can outflank unless stated otherwise as a special rule for that kind of scout move.

Offline MRC

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Re: 1st Turn Ogryn Charge... with a Twist ;)
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2009, 10:31:48 PM »
Or make a free "regular" move prior to Turn 1 starting (i.e. page 76 of the BRB).

Offline Black Hawk

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Re: 1st Turn Ogryn Charge... with a Twist ;)
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2009, 10:45:45 PM »
Or make a free "regular" move prior to Turn 1 starting (i.e. page 76 of the BRB).

Now I see. Then I think the strategy is pretty good, but if this happens and the Ogryns aren't supported, they'd die the following turn and they can be very expensive and I don't know if they'd make up their points in such a daring move.

Offline Bitter Old Man

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Re: 1st Turn Ogryn Charge... with a Twist ;)
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2009, 11:00:04 PM »
That sir is a brilliant display of douchebaggery with the Ogryns. It would work just as well with demo vets, or a similarly tooled squad if you want them to be dedicated to vehicles only. Against infantry it's pretty much just going to work with the ogryn however, but it's a brilliant idea that I may just to retool tomorow's list to do.

Hmm...
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Offline Wonko the Sane

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Re: 1st Turn Ogryn Charge... with a Twist ;)
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2009, 11:08:24 PM »
Definitely something to come back against power builds that we have trouble with... expensive, but who says it has to be ogryns after all. Very cool find there, even if I dont get around to using it ever, I'll always know I can run up and smoke those crisis suits or whatever...someday.
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Offline shaten

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Re: 1st Turn Ogryn Charge... with a Twist ;)
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2009, 11:09:38 PM »
Chimera should me deployed right up against the 12" deployment line WITH THE REAR HATCH FACING THE ENEMY.


No reason to do this as you get a free pivot at the end of the scout move,

for real evilness though deploy it with it's side up against the deployment line and then when you turn to make your scout move you gain an extra 2" of movement.

edit:I forgot to mention you can also pop smoke after the scout move just in case you lose turn 1
« Last Edit: July 10, 2009, 11:10:41 PM by shaten »
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Offline Sly Marbo

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Re: 1st Turn Ogryn Charge... with a Twist ;)
« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2009, 05:44:45 AM »
i would be careful with the ogryn shooting in this example - the smart player will tactically remove models to limit or stop the charge

Offline Goyder

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Re: 1st Turn Ogryn Charge... with a Twist ;)
« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2009, 06:25:13 AM »
Interesting idea,

But if your opponent steals the initiative, you'll be up amphetamine parrot creek with nary a paddle. You'll have a chimera with its AV10 ass at your opponent, and when that explodes, you'll then start to lose Ogryns pretty quickly.

It would work 5/6 of the time, but that 1 time is going to be a killer, and a lot of points down the tube.
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Offline sniperjolly

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Re: 1st Turn Ogryn Charge... with a Twist ;)
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2009, 11:37:26 AM »
still... grey knight terminators with a preist and grandmaster, and you have creed around, right? For Cadia! 21 Str 7 attacks 1st turn.
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Offline Count von cordova

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Re: 1st Turn Ogryn Charge... with a Twist ;)
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2009, 10:00:14 PM »
so your saying that orders work on grey knights??

Offline Heretek

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Re: 1st Turn Ogryn Charge... with a Twist ;)
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2009, 10:06:54 PM »
I don't see why you couldn't, the rules for orders simply refers to friendly infantry units, does it not?

Offline jarredmcgee

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Re: 1st Turn Ogryn Charge... with a Twist ;)
« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2009, 10:43:38 PM »
yes it says any non vehicle freindly
so rules wise it seems to work
however to be prefectly honest
what sort of grey knight would take orders from a guard commander
they aren't widely known
and would certainly not be sent anywhere that wasn't imminently or currently
under choas attack
which brings me to another issue i've got
i see a lot of guard lists using imperials
as allies
sm inquisition etc
this doesn't make sense any way i cut it
because fluff wise
sm may work alonside ig but never for them
they are completly seperate entities and will just as often engage each other in combat as help each other
the inquisition sure will bring in ig troops but under their command
never the other way around

i feel that unless the allies meet their own foc they shouldn't be on the table.

this may be off topic


Offline Heretek

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Re: 1st Turn Ogryn Charge... with a Twist ;)
« Reply #13 on: July 13, 2009, 10:47:33 PM »
Why are you using the 'enter' key instead of punctuation? It's a little hard to follow your post.

I agree that it makes little sense, but that's not for me to argue. All I'm saying is that, RAW, it's perfectly legal. As an aside, I don't see the allies rule as them working for the Guard, I see it as representing them fighting alongside their brothers in arms.

Offline Black Hawk

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Re: 1st Turn Ogryn Charge... with a Twist ;)
« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2009, 11:01:00 PM »
so your saying that orders work on grey knights??

It says friendly units so I would say yes, but I believe an FAQ may change this.

Offline Grand Duke Jerot

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Re: 1st Turn Ogryn Charge... with a Twist ;)
« Reply #15 on: July 13, 2009, 11:16:52 PM »
 :o

This is quite possibly the coolest tactic i've seen in a while. You, my friend, are the ultimate Spike (If you're familiar with MTG player archetypes)
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Offline Bert_the_Turtle

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Re: 1st Turn Ogryn Charge... with a Twist ;)
« Reply #16 on: July 14, 2009, 12:40:30 AM »
Does that mean if you were playing a team game, that if you had, say, Straken on the field, that your allies' units would gain the benefit of his Cold Steel and Courage rule?

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Offline Count von cordova

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Re: 1st Turn Ogryn Charge... with a Twist ;)
« Reply #17 on: July 14, 2009, 12:55:30 AM »
well yeah straken says FRIENDLY units

Offline wfcxleatherneck

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Re: 1st Turn Ogryn Charge... with a Twist ;)
« Reply #18 on: July 14, 2009, 03:30:48 AM »
Sounds fun... I got afew points to spend on my list for tommorrow Ill see what I can squeze in.

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Offline Major. Witham

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Re: 1st Turn Ogryn Charge... with a Twist ;)
« Reply #19 on: July 14, 2009, 06:39:13 AM »
Its a similar principle to the Valkyrie first turn scout move tactic thats been doing the rounds for a while now, although obviously Ogryns cant take Valks so its an interesting way to get them into combat.

What I would say however is that if youre looking to bust a tank them a squad of Vets with 3 x melta will probably do the job just aswell for a hell of alot less points and their meltas are also capible of dealing with things like Landraiders which Ogryns cant destroy.

The other thing to consider is that if the Ogryns charge a tank then they will most likely destroy it which will leave them swinging in the wind and facing the amassed firepower of your opponants entire army. Frankly theyre gonna die because no opponant is stupid enough to leave them alive so they can charge again on the second turn, so if youre looking for a good sacrificial unit then its better to have one that doesnt cost nearly 300pts.

If I were to use Ogryns in this manner I would actually use them to engage a large mob of enemy troops that they might not break on turn 1. This will block your opponants firing lanes, prevent them from targetting the Ogryns with shooting attacks and give the rest of your army a bit of time to manouver.
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