Author Topic: Harlequin Revision - EO! (Read 149812 times)

Roy · « **Reply #520 on:** May 15, 2005, 07:23:01 AM »

*lol*

Heavy Choppas. I thought we agreed on Khorne Chain Axes? What gives?

It looks good. I haven't been able to get ahold of all the different codices for my traits idea yet, but I am working on it.

Rasmus · « **Reply #521 on:** May 15, 2005, 07:25:26 AM »

I thought a bit about that too. The simplest way to do is to scrap much of this Revision and start from scratch, making it possible to add in Masques and Psychic powers as traits, as well as make Mime-Masques (remove Mimes as troupes, and using this trait all the Harlequins get infiltrate) and so on. It will be hard to do with this current list.

Roy · « **Reply #522 on:** May 15, 2005, 07:28:58 AM »

We could always experiment, making a new revision based on the traits system, and then compare the two. The Traits system seems to be the way GW are moving at, and it's proven very popular with players. Using the different traits that already exist, and combining those with something of our own we should be able to make a viable traits list. It would mean dropping the current masks, but the trait system could be called masques I suppose.

Rasmus · « **Reply #523 on:** May 15, 2005, 07:31:38 AM »

So the un-trait-list would not include Mimes and Spiritwalker, Looted vehicles or Masques. Traits could include the use of the webway, Mimes (see Troll-list for how they just switched Harlequins to mimes) as well as inclusion of heavier units, and so on.

What about drawbacks?

Roy · « **Reply #524 on:** May 15, 2005, 07:36:39 AM »

Well, as for drawback, I imagine something along the lines of a newly created force. A harlequin force that has just recently been assembled due to a harlequins reaching the stage of a Great Harlequin, and has to start his own force. (IE less recourses, few elites and experianced troops)

Harlequins that strike through very small webways, and cannot take any vehicles or mostrous creatures.

Harlequins that has had an encounter with a particularly nasty enemy and is reduced in some other state, with restrictions to the FOC, stuff like that.

I'll get back to you with more. Got a game in 30 minutes, and I plan on introducing the club to the squat lists, and see what feedback I get

Rasmus · « **Reply #525 on:** May 15, 2005, 07:54:07 AM »

Update posted.

Warlock group has been dismantled into a assiangable retinue, like the craftworlders, and now have an enhancing power. What do you think?

eatep3 · « **Reply #526 on:** May 15, 2005, 09:25:52 AM »

About that warlock power, does it give the whole squad +1 attack?

Rasmus · « **Reply #527 on:** May 15, 2005, 09:27:09 AM »

Welcome to 40konline eatep!

Yes, that is the general idea. Is the wording somehow unclear?

Bonuses in WS or I seemed to be somewhat superfluous, and BS out of character. And I had to make them useful somehow.

InfinityCircuit · « **Reply #528 on:** May 15, 2005, 10:34:06 AM »

I'm glad you finally removed the Warlocks, they were IMHO the most overpowered unit in the army. The new incarnation looks good.

On the one hand, I'm opposed to traits. On the other, they seem like a good idea.

Here are some drawbacks, I don't know if they are in character:

-As mentioned, limited choices on force chart (i.e. 2 elites, etc.)
-Opponents can choose to take an extra turn in game
-Opponents can choose to be attacker or defender
-Limits on units, like Jetbikes
-Can't take allied Eldar or Dark Eldar

On the other hand it could be more similar to the doctrines system, with no drawbacks but a lot of restrictions.

Rasmus · « **Reply #529 on:** May 15, 2005, 10:47:29 AM »

I think that is better than handing over complexity to the opponent. It is just simpler to have the traits reflected within the armylist, as the SM-ones are.

eatep3 · « **Reply #530 on:** May 15, 2005, 11:41:09 AM »

Quote from: Rasmus on May 15, 2005, 09:27:09 AM

Welcome to 40konline eatep!

Yes, that is the general idea. Is the wording somehow unclear?

Bonuses in WS or I seemed to be somewhat superfluous, and BS out of character. And I had to make them useful somehow.

yes, I agree compleatly about how ws would be useless and bs out of character, I just think that a squad with this perticular power up may be slightly distructive.

Rasmus · « **Reply #531 on:** May 15, 2005, 11:59:47 AM »

Well, paying 40 points for it was appropriate, as you only get it for basic troupers, not for joined ICs with all those nasty weapons. Is the cost off? If so, what should it be, and how do you calculate it?

eatep3 · « **Reply #532 on:** May 15, 2005, 12:26:06 PM »

Im not sure as I havn't played a game with the new EO codex. It seems perfectly fair for a squad of 5-7 but a 10 man squad with 4 attacks on the charge could lay waste to just about anything. Other then that I think the list looks great.

Rasmus · « **Reply #533 on:** May 15, 2005, 12:36:11 PM »

That 10-man squad along with the Harlequin Warlock would run to 350 points or something... It is supposed to waste most things.

InfinityCircuit · « **Reply #534 on:** May 15, 2005, 02:08:44 PM »

The thing about Harlequins currently, as I see it, is as follows:

The Harlequins are DESIGNED to be shot up, but are deliberately overpowered to compensate. I think this is fundamentally flawed. Why? Because there are missions, etc. were this strategy doesn't work--like missions that involve teleportation. However, I don't see how we can fix this. Otherwise we could create a race more like SM than Harlequins.

Sorry I just had to get that out, I don't know if it's relevant.

With regard to the revision: I like End-hand. It's a good name.

Rasmus I don't get what you mean by, "handing over complexity to your opponent."

Manny-Kun · « **Reply #535 on:** May 15, 2005, 06:33:22 PM »

I am reading this and i am impressed. how do you decide the amount of points certain equipment and units are worth?

also, i am thinking of using your revision for the 4th edition with other casual players at local game stores. in order to make things fair would it be wise for me to show them the revised first or so? or is the idea a bad idea?

i think i said it wrong... $:-\$

InfinityCircuit · « **Reply #536 on:** May 15, 2005, 06:48:45 PM »

Rasmus is just magical, I guess, when it comes to point costs.

Actually, it was painstaking playtesting I believe.

I think I understand your point. You must show them the revision first. Try to get them interested, so they can spread word to their other firends. Please post any comments you have after palying with this list!

Manny-Kun · « **Reply #537 on:** May 15, 2005, 08:31:13 PM »

Quote from: InfinityCircuit on May 15, 2005, 06:48:45 PM

Rasmus is just magical, I guess, when it comes to point costs. Actually, it was painstaking playtesting I believe.

I think I understand your point. You must show them the revision first. Try to get them interested, so they can spread word to their other firends. Please post any comments you have after palying with this list!

weeee! glad you understood :3 play i shall! ...with proxys... hehe ^^

Manny-Kun · « **Reply #538 on:** May 15, 2005, 09:59:15 PM »

I'm sorry, im sure this was answered earlyer but is the venom now a deticated transport option or so? i am looking at it in the 4th edition codex and i cant seem to understand it enough. sorry.

InfinityCircuit · « **Reply #539 on:** May 15, 2005, 11:35:42 PM »

Try to edit your posts using the "Modify" button in the future.

The Venom is both a dedicated transport and a Fast Attack choice, sort of like the SoB Immolator. I believe

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Author Topic: Harlequin Revision - EO! (Read 149812 times)