Topic: help with GT 1800 USF list

[Orin]

ok b4 u read on i was debating over using an strike force or an normal ultheway army. Depending on the replys that i will get(hopefully) ill post an opiniated normal ultheway list, as for the one below it will be the strike force.

       Farseer:Sp, Fortune, WB                                                                              TOTAL: 277pts
       Farseer:Sp, Fortune, WB
       Farseer:Sp, Mind War, WB
       Warlock:Sp, ccw, Enhance
       Warlock:Sp, ccw, Augment, rune of witnessing
       Warlock:Sp, ccw,
       Warlock:Sp, ccw,
       
       Avatar                                                                                                        TOTAL: 206pts
       Warlock: Sp, WB, Enhance
       Warlock: Sp, WB, Destructor
       Warlock: Sp, WB, Destructor
   
       6 S Hawks                                                                                                  TOTAL: 189pts
       Exarch: sustained assault, power weapon
 
       5 jet bikes                                                                                                  TOTAL: 241pts
       Warlock: WB, Enhance

       x2 16 black guardians                                                                                   TOTAL: 372pts
       x2 Wrlock:, Sp, ccw, Conceal * one with wraithgate
                                                                                                                                       
       x2 warwalkers:
           scatter laser starcannon* havent figured to do the weapons in paris or not*    TOTAL: 210pts
 
       3 dark reapers                                                                                             TOTAL: 195pts
       Exarch: fast shot, EML

* Units in the wraithgate:
   Avatars unit
   Jet bikes
   S Hawlks
   2x warwalkers used in seperate units
     
ok i have 1690pts above and 110 pts to spend some where, i own more stuff but im trying to keep a "fast theme" for the army im considering vypers  to fill the points, normally a friend lends me two of them but i sure i wont be able to get ahold of him in time to use them, the reapers dont really fit my style of play b/c of the fast theme also i know that every SM player there will have a speeder and they have ALWAYS  aimed for the reapers so im seeing it as a huge points cost but its nice to have around ya know ?

Tactics: i make my army into a reverse V having my 2 squads of gardians lined up behind some type of cover to where they wont take fire head on, i Fot both units re-rolling the sv's for the one with the wraithgate, ill deploy the wraithgate  when i can get halfway to the enimy so that my hawlks, bikes, avatar can jump into H2H without suffering too much dammage while the Warwalkers provid some fire to weaken srtong enimy units. the reapers are there to weaken up small units, ive seen a recent SM tactic to use the min/with heavy weapon units. In the cases where im vs hord armies ill deploy the gate early and upen up fire then procede to H2H.

Enimies: im expecting imperial guard, Sm, tyrinids, chaos (khorne, maybe iron worriors), SoB and one or two other eldar players, the recent winner of previous turnies is a 13th company army list but since its been toned down from the ussual 2250 im thinking he'll run his normal imperial guard.

Welp the floor is open , all and any ideas are welcome, especialy tactics for new or different uses of exsisting units welcome

[Enigma77]

    Just a quick note, in USF each member of the seer council MUST be given a power, this is different from the craftworld codex.  I only see 1 wraithgate which is ok, but you should give it to your seer council. They are the most durable unit you have so it isn't a bad idea to let them take the heat.  Having them front and center diverts fire away from warwalkers and reapers.  Drop the warlocks, or give them embolden instead, and put them inside the wraithgate.  Without a weapons platform they are wasting time running up to the enemy under fire.  The gate is there to get them as close to the enemy as possible, use this to your advantage.  64 shuriken shots form the gate does a lot of damage. 
    I would also recommend having at least 2 vypers with brightlances and crystal targeting matrixes.  These guys are awesome.  They pop in and out shooting down tanks.  They perform very well unless your dice are cursed. 
    I am not really sure what you want to do with the spear and hawks.  They are your only close combat units.  The council will perform ok in combat but with only 3 wb i wouldnt count on them doing very much besides murdering some hormogaunts.  The Avatar is good but he needs bodies to do well.  Throw in some enhanced storm guardians,  you would be surprised how effective they can be.  Their high initiative and massive attacks on a charge allowed me to wipe out 32 hormogaunts without losing a single guardian!  Plus your opponent will underestimate them as well. 
    Hawks are nice as fillers in other armies but I dont think they deserve the coveted aspect slot in a USF army.  The avatar and maugan ra are close combat monsters, and defenders have better guns than the hawks.  10 scorpions will give the avatar some bodies and will help him deal with hord armies.   

[edible]

you could do alot for the jetbikes as they are a points sink maybe stormies with enhance or some vypers with starcannons or b-lances

[Orin]

ok heres what i went out and did, i went out and tested this particular army with the last 110 pts filled in 2 vypers sacraficing the dark reaper squads to throw in 8 storm guardians + warlock with W/HWG.

 i found out that the bikes and the hawlks works wonders against SM, they tie up firepower from heavy units that would murder anything that would come out behind cover. The hit and run tactics of the bikes  wors surprisingly well 12 shots into a units killing maybe 2 then H2H killing maybe another 1 then losing 1 or two, yes they dont do their points worth but being able to hit and run on ur oponents turn  to unload more shots then assult again gets anyoing. And no they dont themselves earn their points back.

Enigma77 you were right with the S guardians, the SM player totaly ignored them and tied up an dreadnaught b4 blowing it up after losing a total of 2 s guardians and the powers about the warlocks.

giving the warpgate to the farseers unit didnt work out i need that mind war to cut down enimy liberians or heavy weapons.

       Farseer:Sp, Fortune, WB                                                                              TOTAL: 274pts
       Farseer:Sp, Fortune, WB
       Farseer:Sp, Mind War, WB
       Warlock:Sp, ccw, Enhance
       Warlock:Sp, ccw, Augment, rune of witnessing
       Warlock:Sp, ccw, Augment, rune of witnessing

       Avatar                                                                                                        TOTAL: 206pts
       Warlock: Sp, WB, Enhance
       Warlock: Sp, WB, Destructor
       Warlock: Sp, WB, Destructor

       6 S Hawks                                                                                                  TOTAL: 199pts
       Exarch: sustained assault, web of skulls, Sp

        5 jet bikes                                                                                                 TOTAL: 241pts
       Warlock: WB, Enhance

       14 D guardians                                                                                            TOTAL: 145pts
       Warlock: ccw, sp, conceal

       14 D guardians                                                                                            TOTAL: 195pts
       Warlock: ccw, sp, conceal web portal.

       14 D guardians                                                                                            TOTAL: 145pts
       Warlock: ccw, sp, conceal

       x2 warwalkers:
           scatter laser starcannon* havent figured to do the weapons in paris or not*    TOTAL: 210pts

       2 Vyper’s: starcannons, CTM                                                                          TOTAL: 210pts

alright based on the commens previous posted i changed up the army alittle, i still kept the bikes and now i have 50pts to spend somewhere im thinking to scratch the bikes and place units of storm guardians and maybe another warp gate?  More comments needed thx for all who posted.

[Enigma77]

what starts in and out of the gate and how does your army fare against assault orriented armies?  You lack a lot of cc punch but I was wondering if all those shuriken catapult shots made up for it.  Anyways, I like the list, and have thought about using jetbikes myself.  How do jetbikes fare in assault? Looks pretty good though. 

[Orin]

the internet ate my post 

ok the units in the wraitgate are 2 squads of gardians, the jet bikes, hawlks, both warwalkers, and the avatars unit.

the shurken fire provides eugh damage to haord armies like nids, i never played orks b4
also the supporting fire of other units weakens unts enugh b4 the assault.

the bikes work well when used to shoot and assault devy squad killing maybe 3 people and losing 1 in return, then on their turn preforming an hit and run and repeating the process and the WB on the walock provids an superb armor killer for the pesky basilik hiding far from the army. along side the hawlks hey tie up 40% of an armies exsisting shooting  and bc of the avatar ull never tie in h2h bc of inspiring so those SM's with initiative 4 try to get away from my exarch with initiative 6, he makes short work of that.

honestly the bikes work about 50-60% of the time they are a huge points sink, but they come in handy they can getwithin range of the catapuls and make an extra 6" move away from them so that genesteleers will never reach them. but they r easly killed when mobbed in h2h  so its really on how ur style of play i like hitting moving fast and hitting hard and bikes fit.

i have 50pts to spend < (back to the point) i dont know where to go with it even for somethign!, people are hinting  to drop the bikes and use the points somewhere else maybe stormies?

[Leonathion]

If you have 2 warwalkers, dark reapers and 2 snipervypers you should totaly get Guide instead/together with Fortune. The dice are always against you and if you dont even up the odds, these units wont do their work properly during the bad times...

[Orin]

hmm good thought but i used two fortunes to ward off those SM liberians if i wouldnt run into them i would totaly use guide any thoughts for two web way portals?

[Enigma77]

Guardian Jetbikes have the hit and run power?!?!?!  I do not see it in the rulebook or in the codex. Am I missing something?

That and even if space marines try to run, you would need to use your majority initiative, plus space marines automatically regroup when you catch them in a sweeping advance. 

[Orin]

Honestly, I can't find it either...but I swear I read it somewhere....

....I think it was somewhere in the chapter approved...

As for the Space Marine thing...yes I know they won't fall back, but you can always opt not to chase them since they'll be placed near the table edge anyways. Also, if that doesn't occur, if you manage to out number them, they'll have to take wounds (A plus from 4th edition rulebook.)

[Enigma77]

Yeah, its amazing how many times I got my friend's space marines to run from battle, only to have them rougroup and make all their saves after i get my no retreat wounds.  Oh well. Damn space marines (their speeders aren't open topped!!!!!).  I've been thinking about getting a unit of jet bikes because I could really use their speed. If they do have the hit and run special rule I will definately use them.  Can anyone confirm/deny this?

[Dinendal]

i think u should have difficulties to do good with 2 difficults squads : hawks and jet bikes are very difficult to play with... and if theres some termies ... what would u do

[Orin]

Posted by: The_Wolf 
Insert Quote
i think u should have difficulties to do good with 2 difficults squads : hawks and jet bikes are very difficult to play with... and if theres some termies ... what would u do

yes they r tough to kill BUT where im at in sacromento CA if any SM player uses termies they r in squads of 6 with 2 assault cannons, and besides that is what the vypers job is to do on average out of 6 id hit 4 and wound four and hed save one after 2 turns that squad is basickly useless then after i mind war one of the assult cannons. thats how i handle em and if it really comes down to the wire 28 shots from one unit of guardians who pop out of the gate  odds are with the amount of svs on a 2+ sure 1 will have to diie!

also they can save all their wounds like theyd do 98% of the time, but hey no one really plays a solid terminator army or have more than 7 in some cases just out the the sure points cost u can blast the away with star cannons and an supporting mind wars to pic off heavy weapons and maybe ocational shurken fire.