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The Armies of 40k => Tau Empire => Topic started by: The GrimSqueaker on February 23, 2018, 03:20:27 PM

Title: New Codex in March
Post by: The GrimSqueaker on February 23, 2018, 03:20:27 PM
The 5th Sphere expansion is about to kick off. As expected from what we've already seen, five septs and Farsight's crew to base an army around each with different bonuses.
Title: Re: New Codex in March
Post by: Wyddr on February 23, 2018, 09:31:49 PM
Here's hoping for cheaper/better battlesuits.
Title: Re: New Codex in March
Post by: The GrimSqueaker on February 23, 2018, 10:19:38 PM
How about functioning Shield Drones?
Title: Re: New Codex in March
Post by: Wyddr on February 24, 2018, 09:35:50 AM
How about functioning Shield Drones?

YES! Just let them take their invul saves, dammit! Is that so much to ask?
Title: Re: New Codex in March
Post by: The GrimSqueaker on February 24, 2018, 05:02:38 PM
Be interesting to see the change in fluff as well due to the previous battle books constricting and adjusting prior events. See what's the going standard now.
Title: Re: New Codex in March
Post by: Lord of Winter and War on February 25, 2018, 09:11:16 AM
The faction needs work for sure, especially in points changes on the suits (ie drops). Based on the books out so far, I think Tau players will be very happy. The only 'bad' codex so far, has been Grey Knights, everything else is on the same level.
Title: Re: New Codex in March
Post by: Wyddr on February 25, 2018, 09:42:24 AM
My wishlist is fairly simple:

1) Make the Riptide worth its points.
2) Let shield drones do their jobs.
3) Make all suits cheaper (except Commanders, which should either stay the same or go up, because Commander Spam is stupid).

I'm sure we'll get an array of handy stratagems, the Sept abilities should be interesting, and the relics/Warlord traits could be fun.

Bonus points if they make the Kroot slightly better than they are now (they're nothing but screens these days--they've lost a lot of their character), and who do I have to eat to get new Vespid models with special weapon options (seriously! They should totally have access to flamers!)?
Title: Re: New Codex in March
Post by: Changeyname on February 25, 2018, 09:48:55 AM
From Faeit's Blog (http://natfka.blogspot.co.uk/2018/02/tau-rumors.html) (via Advanced Tau Tactica):
Quote
I'm not going to rate it because that would be too subjective. All I can tell is that I have a massive tournament coming in two months and I'm dropping my Custodes and Thousand Sons list to play T'au instead. Also buy Riptides and a couple Hammerheads (with Ion Cannons) if you don't have them.

Burst-or Iontide...?
Either and both. The firepower of both has skyrocketed while the point cost dropped hard. Plus there's two insane stratagems for them.

The change to Saviour Protocols is something similar to what Crisis Bodyguards do and Shadowsun's rule with Stealths suits.

Sorry, that was a bit confusing. Savior Protocols is the same as before, but happens only on a 2+.
If people are already complaining about T’au, here a few negative things haha.
1 commander per detachment
No changes to the markerlight table
No improvement to BS across the board
Railguns are the same


Don’t get alarmed though, there are far more upsides that we will get to soon-ish. I’m just waiting for GW to officially announce the codex to get more into details.

The upsides will come from massive point drops on base costs and weaponry, and massive buff to weapons characteristics. Sometimes both, which can make for some crazy stuff. Like a Heavy 18 S6 -1 2dmg gun for 35 points
Riptide and Commander spam fixes if we can believe this rumour
Title: Re: New Codex in March
Post by: Wyddr on February 25, 2018, 09:57:26 AM
If the Railhead has "improved" but the railgun stays the same, does that mean the chassis got tougher or something? Or is the submunition now something better than a joke?

If they are still doing mortal wounds to shield drones with Savior Protocols, I will remain peeved.

1 Commander per detachment is fair.

The Markerlight table is lame, but at least my pathfinders will continue to live long and fruitful lives.

No BS improvement is mildly irksome in combo with the markerlight table. Why basic crisis suits can't have BS 3+ is beyond me. Perhaps they'll get themselves a stratagem? I mean, the Tau are supposed to be able to do pinpoint shooting damage, but if you can't realistically boost their BS to *do* that, they're just shooting like guard. 

A massive buff to weapon characteristics sounds very, very nice, though. The gun he's describing there is pretty clearly the Heavy Burst Cannon on the Riptide, though, which isn't exactly new. 
Title: Re: New Codex in March
Post by: The GrimSqueaker on February 25, 2018, 03:16:53 PM
If they are still doing mortal wounds to shield drones with Savior Protocols, I will remain peeved.

That's one of the important ones. Commander per detachment is fine. There shouldn't be a brass heavy group running around the place unless it's Farsight's Eight. Hopefully some support system bonus to BS otherwise it's back to mass dice rolling.
Title: Re: New Codex in March
Post by: The GrimSqueaker on March 5, 2018, 02:41:48 PM
So we begin with the nuts and bolts.
The T?au Sept, Hammerhead Gunships, and Breacher Teams - Warhammer Community (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/03/05/tau-sept-hammerhead-gunships-breacher-teamsgw-homepage-post-3/)
Title: Re: New Codex in March
Post by: Lord of Winter and War on March 5, 2018, 02:57:48 PM
Here are some rumours which are floating in my groups.

Quote
More from xxhikaru123 on Dakka:

Breacher -1
Strike Team -1
Devilfish -21
Riptide -24
Gun Drone +4
MV Shield Drone +2
Broadside -20
Skyray -19
Hammerhead -17

Aunshi +8
Aunva +20

Airburst -2
Burst Cannon -2
Cluster Rocket -36
Fusion Collider -9
HBC - 20
HRR -28
HYMP -16
Ion Accel -42
Ion Cannon -20
SMS -5
Supremacy Rail gun -19

ATS (Ghostkeel , SS, Riptide) 18
ATS (all others ) +4
Counterfire Defense +5
EWO (Ghostkeel, SS, Riptide) 10
EWO (all others) -3
Multi tracker (all) 10
shield gen (ss) 40
shield gen (all others including ghostkeel now) 8

Seeker Missiles S8 -2 D6 dmg
Cyclic Ion Blaster 3 shots instead of D3 . Overcharge mode.
Cyclic Ion Raker 6 shots instead of D6 . Overcharge mode.
HBC (one profile only now ) 36" 12 shots S6 -1 2dmg
High Intensity Plasma Rifle (new) 30" RF1 6 -4 1
Ion Accelerator ( only normal and overcharge )
-72" Heavy D6 S8 -3 d3dmg
-72" Heavy D6 S9 -3 3dmg (self mortal wound on roll of 1)

Ion Cannon D6 instead of D3 perm for overcharged.
Ion Rifle (overcharged) 2dmg instead of 1
Longshot pulse. On a wound roll of 6, additional 1 Mortal Wound dmg.
Pulse Driver Cannon D6 instead of D3

Dawn Blade +3 S
EWO have additional clause of -1 to hit when being used.
Multitracker now only works on units with 5 or more models.

Markerlight table 3 and 4 swap, 3 is now ignore cover.

Nova-charge weapon profile: HBC Heavy 18 and Accelerator Heavy 6
Title: Re: New Codex in March
Post by: Blazinghand on March 5, 2018, 03:38:18 PM
I've encountered those same rumors. Lack of change to Crisis teams seems unfortunate. Also saw some example Sept Tenets, but they seemed to be a bit garbled, like having firewarriors shoot less, which seems bad.
Title: Re: New Codex in March
Post by: Wyddr on March 5, 2018, 04:21:58 PM
Nothing in there jumping out as being all that great. The focus will still probably be on Commanders and infantry. Nothing about what I've seen so far makes Crisis Suits look much more appealing.

The Ion Accelerator *still* costs way too much.
Title: Re: New Codex in March
Post by: The GrimSqueaker on March 5, 2018, 07:40:33 PM
Somewhat concerning though. Restricted commanders *and* no significant decrease in XV8 costs? Seems rather self defeating in the long run. Still, proof in the pudding and all that.
Title: Re: New Codex in March
Post by: Lord of Winter and War on March 5, 2018, 08:27:24 PM
Points changes aren't the be all end all anyway. Changes to rules, and strategems will make a big difference.

The reveals so far on the community site are very cool.
Title: Re: New Codex in March
Post by: The GrimSqueaker on March 5, 2018, 08:29:41 PM
Points changes aren't the be all end all anyway.

The faction needs work for sure, especially in points changes on the suits (ie drops).

Okay man.  ;)

Big fan of the T'au sept overwatch rule. Something that should basically be army standard but take what you can get.

Title: Re: New Codex in March
Post by: Wyddr on March 5, 2018, 10:03:17 PM
Points changes aren't the be all end all anyway. Changes to rules, and strategems will make a big difference.

Fair enough. If they do something to XV8s to make them more useful (give them more firepower, make them more survivable), I'll be willing to give them a shot. But right now they just...aren't good. They are wildly overpriced heavy weapons platforms that are very easy to kill.

Commanders, on the other hand, are better than 2 Crisis Suits each. I'll *totally* bring 3 formations to field three of them. So will everybody else. Which is stupid and I don't like it one bit.

From what I'm seeing so far, Broadsides look interesting, Strike Teams look *amazing* (Bork'an sept = Heavy Bolter Ranges on all my dudes! WHAAAT?!), and Skyrays got way, waaay better.

Suits, overall, appear to remain pretty bad. I might be dragging a team of 3 along just to drop in and cause mischief, but the days of them being a mainstay unit in the codex will be over unless there's a lot more to see than we have already.
Title: Re: New Codex in March
Post by: The GrimSqueaker on March 6, 2018, 10:59:06 AM
Another Sept
T?au Empire Preview: Bork?an Sept - Warhammer Community (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/03/06/tau-preview-borkan-septgw-homepage-post-3/)

Some interesting tweaks for the Riptide.
Title: Re: New Codex in March
Post by: Lord of Winter and War on March 6, 2018, 12:54:02 PM
The riptides guns are freaking amazing now.

The HBC being damage 2 is all that weapon needed. Same with the damage for the ion cannon getting a boost. Those two changes alone make the riptide a much more exciting choice.

Title: Re: New Codex in March
Post by: Wyddr on March 6, 2018, 12:54:34 PM
The Riptide is looking useable, though I hate having to take mortal wounds to have it work.

Very silly to associate Bork'an with the Riptide, though. When was the last time a target was more than 72" away?

Bork'an has always been my Sept of choice, but playing a static gunline doesn't appeal.
Title: Re: New Codex in March
Post by: Lord of Winter and War on March 6, 2018, 01:01:28 PM
I see it being very useful for mobile armies, as you can now rapid fire at 18" with pulse carbines. You can skirt around and kite people, and they won't be able to shoot back.

The riptide has a ton of wounds, and the nova abilities are so powerful, they need some way to make you think about using them.
Title: Re: New Codex in March
Post by: The GrimSqueaker on March 6, 2018, 01:02:50 PM
Especially when you've an option to use two abilities at once.
Title: Re: New Codex in March
Post by: Wyddr on March 6, 2018, 01:54:57 PM
I see it being very useful for mobile armies, as you can now rapid fire at 18" with pulse carbines. You can skirt around and kite people, and they won't be able to shoot back.

True--it does make the rifles work like carbines now without sacrificing their utility. Strike Teams really are looking very good. 

Quote
The riptide has a ton of wounds, and the nova abilities are so powerful, they need some way to make you think about using them.

See, I don't feel like that much thought has to go into it. If you're taking an Ion Accelerator, you are *obviously* nova-overcharging that amphetamine parrot every time you shoot the gun, because it nakedly sucks for what you've paid otherwise. You'll never see a return on your investment in the model if you don't. You're just mentally knocking off those 4-5 wounds right off the top.
Title: Re: New Codex in March
Post by: magenb on March 6, 2018, 02:53:34 PM
I see it being very useful for mobile armies, as you can now rapid fire at 18" with pulse carbines. You can skirt around and kite people, and they won't be able to shoot back.

Not sure how well that will work in this edition, as armies are incredibly now. It should let you get a round of rapid fire shooting off before something smashes into them though, which is really nice. It will be very useful against Necrons though, well until their codex drops lol.


Title: Re: New Codex in March
Post by: Wyddr on March 6, 2018, 06:51:04 PM
Not sure how well that will work in this edition, as armies are incredibly now.

Of note: this sentence is missing a key word. I'm assuming that word is "fast?" That isn't universally true, though.

Anyway, an 18" double tap beats the hell out of a 15" one. The target you're shooting at should die. It's the unit behind that one you want to keep at bay, and that extra 3" definitely helps.
Title: Re: New Codex in March
Post by: The GrimSqueaker on March 7, 2018, 01:38:18 PM
Now some of my favourite people - Farsight Enclave.
T?au Empire Preview: Farsight Enclaves - Warhammer Community (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/03/07/tau-empire-preview-farsight-enclavesgw-homepage-post-3/)
Title: Re: New Codex in March
Post by: Wyddr on March 7, 2018, 03:41:50 PM
Those all look pretty interesting. Nice to see Farsight getting a boost.

I do *not* like the idea of operating within 6" of the enemy under any circumstances (Breacher teams give me the willies), but that could work out to be a very flavorful boost for units that need to do that.

The C&C Node looks great. Not sure if it's worth it wasting a commander slot (and expense) on a dude who just lets your missile pods re-roll wounds, but that relic definitely has potential.

I'm excited to see what other extra gear/suit types commanders can get!
Title: Re: New Codex in March
Post by: The GrimSqueaker on March 7, 2018, 04:52:15 PM
Least the C&C node doesn't take up any space and is a situational option. Be interesting to see if Farsight still has access to that relic that helped with deny the witch rolls.

Now the stealthy lads.
T?au Empire Preview: Dal?yth Sept - Warhammer Community (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/03/08/tau-empire-preview-dalyth-septgw-homepage-post-3/)
Title: Re: New Codex in March
Post by: Wyddr on March 9, 2018, 10:45:43 AM
Da'lyth looks okay. But Vior'la? Holy crap that Hot-blooded stratagem is MONSTROUS!

Also: Yaaay! Customizable Coldstars!
Title: Re: New Codex in March
Post by: The GrimSqueaker on March 9, 2018, 11:53:06 AM
T?au Empire Preview: Vior?la Sept - Warhammer Community (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/03/09/tau-empire-preview-viorla-septgw-homepage-post-3/)

Oh yes, hotblooded sounds interesting. The Coldstar suit features heavily in the Farsight novel. The AI keeps be-atching him out about not following protocol. Same book features gun drones chatting with their controller.
Title: Re: New Codex in March
Post by: faitherun (Fay-ith-er-run) on March 9, 2018, 05:45:28 PM
Am I understanding correctly that Strike Fast trait allows for Rapid fire guns to advance and fire with no penalty, and if they stay still can choose to double tap?

Rapid becomes assault, and no penalty to advance and shoot with assault...

That is, imo, one of the most powerful builds right there. Especially with Hot blooded...
Title: Re: New Codex in March
Post by: Lord of Winter and War on March 9, 2018, 06:21:49 PM
Am I understanding correctly that Strike Fast trait allows for Rapid fire guns to advance and fire with no penalty, and if they stay still can choose to double tap?

Rapid becomes assault, and no penalty to advance and shoot with assault...

That is, imo, one of the most powerful builds right there. Especially with Hot blooded...

Yep, just keep in mind if a gun becomes assault 1, instead of rapid fire 1, it no longer has the rapid fire rule, so you won't be able to double tap in half range.

But, this only kicks in if the unit advances, so as long as you don't advance you're still a rapid-fire gun.
Title: Re: New Codex in March
Post by: Wyddr on March 9, 2018, 09:54:35 PM
All I'm thinking with Vior'la is 10-man Strike Team w/pulse rifles and a Cadre Fireblade:

30 shots once,
+Hot Blooded+
30 shots again!

All at heavy bolter strength. Almost certainly re-rolling 1s.

Ouch.

Title: Re: New Codex in March
Post by: Blazinghand on March 10, 2018, 01:09:21 AM
I wonder if you could take a breacher team in a devilfish and get similar, tastier results at high strength and AP.
Title: Re: New Codex in March
Post by: Wyddr on March 10, 2018, 08:20:13 AM
But then you need to get your whole squad within super-close range.

But yeah, that would work. Just expect to lose the squad next turn.
Title: Re: New Codex in March
Post by: Lord of Winter and War on March 10, 2018, 12:00:47 PM
I'm just glad that the infantry are going to be viable and see table play. I can't remember the last time I saw a Fire Warrior on the table.
Title: Re: New Codex in March
Post by: Grand Master Lomandalis on March 10, 2018, 04:57:45 PM
I'm just glad that the infantry are going to be viable and see table play. I can't remember the last time I saw a Fire Warrior on the table.

Fire... Warrior?  That's a funny way to spell Pathfinder lol
Title: Re: New Codex in March
Post by: Wyddr on March 10, 2018, 07:21:12 PM
I'm just glad that the infantry are going to be viable and see table play. I can't remember the last time I saw a Fire Warrior on the table.

Really? They aren't too bad right now. What do people take? Just commanders and drones?
Title: Re: New Codex in March
Post by: Lord of Winter and War on March 10, 2018, 08:44:06 PM
I'm just glad that the infantry are going to be viable and see table play. I can't remember the last time I saw a Fire Warrior on the table.

Really? They aren't too bad right now. What do people take? Just commanders and drones?

Yes, pretty much. Maybe skyrays for mortal wound spam.
Title: Re: New Codex in March
Post by: Wyddr on March 10, 2018, 09:00:41 PM
Yes, pretty much. Maybe skyrays for mortal wound spam.

Gross. I mean, I can see why (and that's why I haven't been playing Tau this edition), but that is super, super lame.

Also, Skyrays seem like a crappy way to spam moral wounds.
Title: Re: New Codex in March
Post by: Lord of Winter and War on March 10, 2018, 09:21:57 PM
Yes, pretty much. Maybe skyrays for mortal wound spam.

Gross. I mean, I can see why (and that's why I haven't been playing Tau this edition), but that is super, super lame.

Also, Skyrays seem like a crappy way to spam moral wounds.

They have a lot of seeker misses, worked pretty well in the couple of games I played against such armies. Usually they had a few barracudas too, as they are also loaded with seekers.
Title: Re: New Codex in March
Post by: The GrimSqueaker on March 13, 2018, 01:13:14 PM
A little army building discussion to wet the appetite.
T?au Empire Tactica - Part 1: - Warhammer Community (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/03/13/tau-empire-tactica-part-1gw-homepage-post-4/)
Title: Re: New Codex in March
Post by: Wyddr on March 13, 2018, 02:09:22 PM
A little army building discussion to wet the appetite.
T?au Empire Tactica - Part 1: - Warhammer Community (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/03/13/tau-empire-tactica-part-1gw-homepage-post-4/)

Tau Players:
Quote
WTF? Why did you nerf all battlesuits so hard? Why can't we play with our suits, dammit? Fix this! (goes off and plays Commander Spam)

Games Workshop:
Quote
Look guys! A gunline! ISN'T THAT NEATO? Let's all stand still and shoot from the other side of the board, just like guardsmen!

Tau Players:
(https://i.imgur.com/HU1ay8u.gif)
Title: Re: New Codex in March
Post by: magenb on March 13, 2018, 03:44:54 PM
Firewarriors with 42"range and 3 shots at 21"range...  so hope you all have a tone of LOS blocking terrain..
Title: Re: New Codex in March
Post by: Wyddr on March 13, 2018, 05:06:09 PM
Firewarriors with 42"range and 3 shots at 21"range...  so hope you all have a tone of LOS blocking terrain..

Oh yes--that's hella dangerous. But also very, very boring.

Let's see what they have in store for us for Part 2/3 of this article series. I've always played mobile/hybrid Tau with a lot of suits and vehicles. That playstyle was severely downgraded in the index. I'm hoping they do something to make it work again.

I largely doubt it, if only because I've found these tacticas to be usually pretty myopic.
Title: Re: New Codex in March
Post by: The GrimSqueaker on March 16, 2018, 12:30:47 PM
Here's your second dose.
T?au Empire Tactica - Part 2 - Warhammer Community (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/03/16/tau-empire-tactica-part-2gw-homepage-post-4/)
Title: Re: New Codex in March
Post by: Wyddr on March 16, 2018, 01:48:52 PM
Here's your second dose.
T?au Empire Tactica - Part 2 - Warhammer Community (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/03/16/tau-empire-tactica-part-2gw-homepage-post-4/)

T'au being the sept they chose "so you can get Aun'va" is hysterical. Unless Aun'va somehow got *amazing,* he will remain the stupidest, least useful model in the game. Vior'la all the way, guys. Darkstrider just ain't that good. 

Hey, how about Vespids!
They've gotten so much better! And by that we mean they sound as though they've remained exactly the same! Yay?

One thing I will say for 8th edition is that combat has become far less deadly for the Tau. I mean, it's still bad, but whole units evaporating when they were touched by the merest tactical marine is a thing of the past, thank god. The prospect of using your Devilfish to assault your shooting target (thereby making it impossible for that target to assault *you* next turn) is pretty huge.

Overall I'm bullish on the mechanized firewarriors in this edition. Always have been, really. Is it as good as the Bork'an 42" pulse rifle wall? Well...no. Not remotely. But it does look playable, which is important.

As usual, I find the "tactical" insight in these articles to be vague and generally short-sighted.
Title: Re: New Codex in March
Post by: The GrimSqueaker on March 16, 2018, 01:54:55 PM
Notice still no useful talk about battlesuits? They're pushing infantry and mechanised infantry hard but not the XV8 and hammerhead staples.
Title: Re: New Codex in March
Post by: Blazinghand on March 16, 2018, 01:57:58 PM
Maybe there's some big XV8 rules reveal they're holding back to be the finale
Title: Re: New Codex in March
Post by: The GrimSqueaker on March 16, 2018, 02:01:12 PM
Here's hoping. All the same, we'll have everything tomorrow on anyway so my impatience isn't important.
Title: Re: New Codex in March
Post by: Wyddr on March 16, 2018, 05:10:29 PM
Notice still no useful talk about battlesuits? They're pushing infantry and mechanised infantry hard but not the XV8 and hammerhead staples.

Yeah, still pissed about this. The units they *broke* that (almost) every Tau player loves have barely received a mention.

That and Hammerheads are total garbage at the moment, which is really disappointing, and the "improvements" to their weapons, from what I've seen, are nowhere near enough.
Title: Re: New Codex in March
Post by: Blazinghand on March 16, 2018, 07:18:33 PM
I'm sad they didn't change Railgun to be as impressive as it was under the old system. Something to make them uniquely dangerous, like having them deal 2d6 damage, or 1d3 shots at 1d6 damage, or keep the same profile but deal d3 mortal wounds on ANY successful hit, would make it a very scary gun.
Title: Re: New Codex in March
Post by: Wyddr on March 17, 2018, 07:54:59 AM
I'm sad they didn't change Railgun to be as impressive as it was under the old system. Something to make them uniquely dangerous, like having them deal 2d6 damage, or 1d3 shots at 1d6 damage, or keep the same profile but deal d3 mortal wounds on ANY successful hit, would make it a very scary gun.

I know, right? It's just an overpriced lascannon now. And the subminition? Terrible.

Honestly, everything that used to get the pie plate should be shooting 2d6 shots these days. But alas...