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Author Topic: 1,000 points of Radicals!  (Read 1336 times)

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Offline Carniflex

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1,000 points of Radicals!
« on: September 29, 2008, 10:11:23 PM »
Before we begin this army you must understand one key crucial thing that I am not proud of in the slightest. I bought this army (the core of it) whilst drunk. I came into the store in a Hawaiian shirt, I could see the look of worry in the store manager's face as he nervously realised mothers with kids (GW's primary target) were in the store. So not wanting to seem useless, I told him I was going to buy Daemonhunters. WHY? Because nobody else in my store does! (they do. I was drunk and didn't realise it). So I wanted to be anti-conformist, and go radical, literally. I'd had a unit of Karskin lying about that didn't belong in my guard, so I went and bought another three boxes, and enough special weapon blisters to spread plasmas and melta guns around.

Now here's where the booze betrayed me. My mind is still 75% coherent. 25% of my brain is not showing up because of bad reserve rolls, but 75% says 6 squads of deep striking or infiltrating storm troopers with plasma guns, melta guns, and flamers is like Starship Troopers meets Reign of Fire.  But as we all know (now) that Inquisitorial stormtroopers cannot deep strike, cannot infiltrate, cannot be daemonically summoned, cannot use jetbikes, cannot take cavalry, and cannot mount dark eldar raiders (unless being captured and dragged to Commorragh).


Inquisitor Lord Vorgar Rex + Terminator Armour + Psycannon + 2 Sages + 1 Mystic
Daemonhost
Callidus Assassin
10 Storm Troopers + Plasma Gun + Melta Gun x 4
10 Marines + Lascannon + Flamer + Power Weapon

Now the marines are a new addition, if only so I can have 5 of them sit on an objective, pointing a lascannon at people, whilst the other five creep behind 40 charging storm troopers. Other times I'll break a squad into two. Given I'm radical I kind of took the marines as Relictors, and we have this image of them banding with the inquisitor to unlock chaotic artifacts.

In my past battles I won 2, drew 1, lost 1. My first win was a miracle to a guards player who took 2 griffons, and a leman russ, plus numerous chimeras, Back then the inquisitor had a bigger retinue, and I had no space marines, so my longest ranged weapon was a 36 psycannon.

Plasma Guns went through the front of his Chimeras, whilst the daemonhost teleported and the callidus revealed herself as a loader, and they each destroyed a griffon. By the end of the game I had 1 karskin on one objective, 2 karskin on another, and my callidus contesting one of his. A narrow miracle of a victory.

My second game was a draw to a marine army that used scouts to pin me continuously, when he claimed I had to take a pinning check for each casulty, rather than one per squad that caused a casulty. We later clarified this was wrong. Still, I managed to get 2 storm troopers to charge ahead with the callidus, and wipe out the scout squad on his objective in his deployment, whilst his deep strikers and flank marchers captured the objective in my deployment zone.

Third game was a loss to Eldar. Again, marines weren't included, but I went up against a foe who had built his army purely to kill mine. So shining spears, jetbike autach, 2 falcons with the jets that let you shoot off super fast, warp spiders, and every dice roll I made being terrible. This made me buy the lascannon squad rather than rely on a daemonhost teleporting to hit vehicles. Still, fair play I lost, and it was an educational game, so thanks to my opponent.

Fourth game I won, against Tau. By a miracle I'd been reduced to 5 marines, sitting on an objective behind a building, whilst the second objective was lacking any tau troop choices. I won because the game ended on turn 5. Any longer and it would have been a draw.

Awesome games, all of them. Here's some insights:
1 - First two turns of the game a daemonhost will reknit form, especially if nobody hurt him. If surrounded by storm troopers he will terrify, or blast them with blood boil. Daemonhosts resent being bough, painted, and bound to the service of the Emperor.
2 - Callidus Assassin will kill whatever she hits, and then die. She is no more an assassin than a suicide bomber it seems, and in 1,000 points I love her, for she has saved my life, but then again its another 10 storm troopers with a plasma and melta.
3 - Inquisitor Retinues don't do so well in 1,000 point games. They eat up points, and are far too fragile. Maybe the 3 heavy bolters + 2 sages + 3 acolytes with carapace and storm bolter + psycannon work, but I'd feel safer with a marine devestator squad for some reason.
4 - Death Cult Assassins are the power rangers (pink and yellow respectively) in that they will cartwheel and do flying kicks, but are pretty much doomed unless they can summon a 50ft robot dinosaur to bail them out.
5 - Storm Troopers want to be Sisters of Battle! Toughness 3 is toughness 3, and playing this army reminds me of comatose Eldar getting up for work at 4am. 4+ save is only so much, and in close combat we're pretty dire. Sadly, every army I face is shooting, so I've had to trek to them. I want a bolter and power armour!


Insights appreciated, polite advice adored, similar funny tales would be great. (Also, alcohol bad and stupid)

Don't disappoint me, or I'll make you wish you could die.  - GLaDOS, universe's best Cryptek

Offline Wombats

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Re: 1,000 points of Radicals!
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2008, 04:54:17 AM »
Lean heavily towards the Space Marine allies side of things. 

Without Sisters of Battle and to a lesser extent, Grey Knights, you don't have much hope of fielding a strong army from Inquisition circus units. 

Worth picking up the Space Marines codex. 
Thought begets Doubt : Doubt begets Heresy
(Heresy begets you sent to bed with no dinner)

Offline Major. Witham

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Re: 1,000 points of Radicals!
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2008, 05:34:06 PM »
Quote
Inquisitor Lord Vorgar Rex + Terminator Armour + Psycannon + 2 Sages + 1 Mystic
Daemonhost
Callidus Assassin
10 Storm Troopers + Plasma Gun + Melta Gun x 4
10 Marines + Lascannon + Flamer + Power Weapon

Its not cost effective to take two Sages just so your Inquisitor can re-roll a miss on his Psycannon. Only do this if you intend to take gun Servitors and even then its open to debate whether its still a great idea.

A single Daemonhost is unlikely to be of any use - he simply doesnt have enough ability on his own to cause any real damage and is easily isolated and shot down or overcome in close combat. If youre gonna use 'hosts then take a trio of them and gang them up on a single enemy.

Squads of ten Storm Troops arent cost effective. Dont forget that the only Storm Troops likely to cause any damage are those with the special weapons, therefore the other storm troops are simply ablative wounds. With that in mind I recommend squads of eight at the very, very most. I also recommend that you dont mix and match your special weapons - take two plasmas or two meltas, not one of each.

A lascannon and a flamer are perhaps the worst combination of special and heavy weapon you can stick in any squad - one is designed for blasting the enemy from afar whilst the other needs you to be super close to use. If youre using lascannons then a plasma gun is your best special weapon as it best suits the range and power of the lascannon. Being relatively weak assault weapons the flamer suits a mobile squad or at the very least a heavy weapon such as the heavy bolter which is designed for dealing with light troops.

You mentioned that your Callidus took out a Griffen by appearing as a loader - I'm not sure that a Callidus can materialise as any member of a vehicle crew even if it is represented by an actual model - although she can be placed anywhere on the table. How did she destroy it exactly?
"Sir! Looks like were surrounded!"

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Offline Carniflex

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Re: 1,000 points of Radicals!
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2008, 09:29:26 PM »

Its not cost effective to take two Sages just so your Inquisitor can re-roll a miss on his Psycannon. Only do this if you intend to take gun Servitors and even then its open to debate whether its still a great idea.

A single Daemonhost is unlikely to be of any use - he simply doesnt have enough ability on his own to cause any real damage and is easily isolated and shot down or overcome in close combat. If youre gonna use 'hosts then take a trio of them and gang them up on a single enemy.

Squads of ten Storm Troops arent cost effective. Dont forget that the only Storm Troops likely to cause any damage are those with the special weapons, therefore the other storm troops are simply ablative wounds. With that in mind I recommend squads of eight at the very, very most. I also recommend that you dont mix and match your special weapons - take two plasmas or two meltas, not one of each.

A lascannon and a flamer are perhaps the worst combination of special and heavy weapon you can stick in any squad - one is designed for blasting the enemy from afar whilst the other needs you to be super close to use. If youre using lascannons then a plasma gun is your best special weapon as it best suits the range and power of the lascannon. Being relatively weak assault weapons the flamer suits a mobile squad or at the very least a heavy weapon such as the heavy bolter which is designed for dealing with light troops.

You mentioned that your Callidus took out a Griffen by appearing as a loader - I'm not sure that a Callidus can materialise as any member of a vehicle crew even if it is represented by an actual model - although she can be placed anywhere on the table. How did she destroy it exactly?

I split the marine squads into 2 combat squads, so the flamer's with the power weapon and the lascannon's by itself afar taking potshots. Maybe you're right though, and the marine thing isn't working.

I just had another game today, another draw by fluke, this time against a lash sorcerer, a defiler, and a vindicator. Man Lash of Submission is an insult to your opponent, is all I can say.

Right, the callidus as weapon loader was a narrative thing. She blew it up by firing her pistol and stunning it, then assaulting it in the same turn and hitting the rear armour, blowing the weapon off of it. As good as destroyed IMHO.

Right, in 1,000 points you're right, a Daemonhost needs 1 or 2 of his buddies. This game I had terrorise (pinned 2 of his own squads), reknit wounds, reknit wounds, bloodboil, terrorise. Fighting chaos, the terrorise did nothing, and he renkitted wounds everytime he wasn't damaged. Gaaaah, I laughed and cried simultaniously! So yes, you two speak good sense. Anyway, without further ado, here's my second army list.


HQ
Inquisitor Lord + Bolt Pistol + Close Combat Weapon + 3 Mystics (Mandatory, cheap, pointless HQ)
3 Daemonhosts + Callidus Assassin (majority of the killing done by these 4)
5 Storm Troopers + 2 Melta Guns (Objective A)
5 Storm Troopers + 2 Melta Guns (And B)
5 Storm Troopers + 2 Plasma Guns (And C)
5 Storm Troopers + 2 Plasma Guns (Incase A/B/C becomes a bloodbath)
5 Storm Troopers + 2 Grenade Launchers (Annoy some Tau/Orks)
10 Marines + Flamer + Lascannon + Power Weapon (Perhaps the only reliability in my army. Split into 2 combat squads)
2 Rhinos (one cheap from the marine squad, one expensive for a trooper squad. These house the 2 melta troop units)

Hope that kind of leans more to what you were saying guys, and thanks for the input so far. What you've said now seems so painfully obvious, yet it never occured to me.
Don't disappoint me, or I'll make you wish you could die.  - GLaDOS, universe's best Cryptek

Offline Wombats

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Re: 1,000 points of Radicals!
« Reply #4 on: October 1, 2008, 12:54:50 AM »
I wouldn't buy any more Storm Troopers until you've playtested alternatives. 

Space Marine Scouts are a good alternative and have some pretty serious tactical flexibility for their price. 

Check out the Space Marine codex for some cool things - it has plenty of opportunity to do cool stuff. 

Witch/Daemon hunters are a very low power army and won't be seeing an update for 5 years. 

In a few codex releases basic Inquisitorial forces are going to be hard to stomach even for a fluff-centric player. 
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(Heresy begets you sent to bed with no dinner)

Offline Major. Witham

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Re: 1,000 points of Radicals!
« Reply #5 on: October 1, 2008, 05:26:56 AM »
To use scouts you still have to have your two basic troop choices from your own codex plus you are only allowed 0-1 units of Scouts so they are probably not the solution to your problem.

I use Storm Troops myself and whilst they are okay it is true to say that they are too expensive for what you get and there are better units out there. Problem you have is youre restricted by your codex and your theme.

May I suggest that if youre going for a full blown chaosy theme that you use some Storm Troops with inducted Guardsmen. The Guardsman allow you to significantly increase your model count, give you a place to put some long range anti-tank and the plastic models are ideal for customising - there are even chaos Guardsman kits you can buy from Forgeworld to help.

As for your Inquisitor, I love Inquisitors and use them every time but I still have to accept that they are expensive for what you get. My best advice is to either go for a shooty retinue or if you are going to use a close combat retinue make sure that you have some close combat Servitors and a few more bodies in the squad.
"Sir! Looks like were surrounded!"

"Were Drop Troops soldier - Were supposed to be surrounded!"

Offline Wombats

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Re: 1,000 points of Radicals!
« Reply #6 on: October 1, 2008, 08:07:35 AM »
Smurfs with Inqy allies?

Its where I'd be leaning. 

Have to give up on the Callidus, though. 

If you are going to use one though, get something that will make A Word In Your Ear hurt like an Exorcist or something Strength 10 for those dopey Ork characters. 
Thought begets Doubt : Doubt begets Heresy
(Heresy begets you sent to bed with no dinner)

 


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