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Offline AceKng1

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1,850pt Grey Knights List
« on: November 29, 2006, 06:12:05 PM »
I'm just starting Grey Knights and want to know what you think of this list.

HQ

Grandmaster with Psycannon and Holocaust    195pts

retinue
4 Grey Knight Terminators with psycannon    209pts

Troops

Justicar with targeter, teleport homer, and frag grenades and 5 Grey Knights, 1 with psycannon    212pts

Justicar with targeter, teleport homer, and frag grenades and 5 Grey Knights, 1 with psycannon    212pts

Fast Attack

Justicar with targeter, frag grenades, and melta bombs and 5 Grey Knights, 2 with psycannons    232pts

Justicar with targeter, frag grenades, and melta bombs and 5 Grey Knights, 2 with psycannons    232pts

Heavy Support

Grey Knights Dreadnought with twin-linked lascannon, missile launcher, extra armor, searchlights, and smoke   149pts

Grey Knights Dreadnought with twin-linked lascannon, missile launcher, extra armor, searchlights, and smoke   149pts

Grey Knights Land Raider Crusader with smoke and searchlight   259pts

Total:  1,849pts

EDIT:  Updated my list
« Last Edit: November 30, 2006, 11:43:05 PM by acekng1 »
Grandmaster of the Caerleon Crusades Grey Knight Company who in times of need are supported by the Vulkarian 41st Heavy Drop Company.<br /><br />"We may be outnumbered and out gunned,<br />But our weapons are ready, our grav-chutes are charged, and we have the element of surprise."<br />-Slogan of the Vulkarian 41st Heavy Drop Company<br /><br />Farseer of the Naran-ju Craftworld<br /><br />"Fear us, for we are the Eldar.  We bring your doom."<br />-Warchant of the Naran-ju Craftworld Eldar

Offline Master Bio-Titan BT

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Re: 1,850pt Grey Knights List
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2006, 10:46:20 AM »
That is actually a really great list!

Sometimes it is better to take the Land Raider instead of the Crusader, Sometimes you need the extra anti-tank firepower.

You need a psych power for your GM, I prefer Holocaust just incase of hoarde armies.

Your GK squads should be in even numbers.  6 models in a Fast Attack is a great number, foot slogging troops would do better in sizes of 8 or 10, just remember to keep them even numbered.  Meltabombs on your Justicars would be great just in case of whatever.  Teleport homers on your Troop GKs' would help keep your Fast attack GKs' safely on the board.

You should be able to do all this at 2000pts, so just raise your limit! ;)

Great start!  Have fun spending all your money!


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Offline Black Sword

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Re: 1,850pt Grey Knights List
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2006, 02:25:05 PM »
Great start!  Have fun spending all your money!
You're so mean...  :D

I like the list, and agree with most of GM-BT's thoughts. 

I use the Brother Captain rather than the Grand Master, so that I can do some of the things he listed. 

The psycannons are terrific, and are even servicable light-anti-tank.  Just remember that you're giving up two S6 attacks in close-combat, and for the points, that's another Knight (so actually four S6 attacks).

I have rarely had MB on a justicar help me, but it is nice insurance.

Be careful, and remember to have units support each other.  This is a difficult army to do well with, if leave units out on their own and expect them to be self-sustaining.

HAVE FUN!!

(and yeah, get a second job  ;) )
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Offline AceKng1

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Re: 1,850pt Grey Knights List
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2006, 06:54:24 PM »
Great start!  Have fun spending all your money!

Lol ya, luckily I almost have this entire army with what I have already bought and with christmas coming up.  Just need a couple more knights with psycannons. 

I took the Crusader because with it transporting the termies its going to have to close with the enemy rather than sit back and be a fire platform.  Once close the crusader has pretty good anti-tank potential and can fire all its weapons at the crews balistic skill rather than being forced to use the machine spirit for the other lascannon which a reagular landraider would be forced to do while it closed with the enemy. 

Thanks for the even numbers suggestion.  I added the 7th man to the 2 footslogging squads because I had the points but I had forgotten about the psychic powers.  So if I drop a guy from each squad then it will still have to have 4 killed to get below half strength and I can use the extra points for holocaust on the grandmaster, melta bombs on each of the justicars of the deepstriking squads, and teleport homers on each of the justicars of the footsloggers. 

My main reason for including 2 psycannons in each of the deepstriking squads was to pop the rear armor of tanks.

I also want to keep the Grandmaster instead of downgrading to a brother captain because he has already pulled me out of several sticky situations with his force weapon.  Though if I did drop him I could add in two regular grey knights to bring the total of the footslogging squads to 8 each and still have points for holocaust.

The reason I am choosing 1,850 points is for a tournament in Florida that my friend and I go to.  I will be expanding my army to atleast 2,000 points, I just need an 1,850 point list for the tournament.  Thanks for all the help!
Grandmaster of the Caerleon Crusades Grey Knight Company who in times of need are supported by the Vulkarian 41st Heavy Drop Company.<br /><br />"We may be outnumbered and out gunned,<br />But our weapons are ready, our grav-chutes are charged, and we have the element of surprise."<br />-Slogan of the Vulkarian 41st Heavy Drop Company<br /><br />Farseer of the Naran-ju Craftworld<br /><br />"Fear us, for we are the Eldar.  We bring your doom."<br />-Warchant of the Naran-ju Craftworld Eldar

Offline BlueAnubis

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Re: 1,850pt Grey Knights List
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2006, 09:12:33 PM »
I'm just starting Grey Knights and want to know what you think of this list.

HQ

Grandmaster with Psycannon and Holocaust and Master Crafted Force Weapon  210pts

retinue
4 Grey Knight Terminators with psycannon    209pts
You can only have two of the terminators with psycannons, and your points are off because that would be 234pt. I would suggest not using holocaust because it hits your guys to, and if any of the terminators fail the save there goes a lot of point.

You should drop all the psycannons on your terminators because you are wasting points if they shoot them enough to make them worth while. Terminators should be in close combat. Also your terminators lose truegrit if they have psycannons. Before anyone argues they don’t have truegrit it says in the Grey Knight terminators entry that they have all of the Grey Knight rules on page8. The truegrit rule on page8 is replaced by the one in the BMG, and the BMG says nothing about Grey Knight terminators not being able to use truegrit.
Quote
Troops

Justicar with targeter and frag grenades and 5 Grey Knights, 1 with psycannon    202pts

Justicar with targeter and frag grenades and 5 Grey Knights, 1 with psycannon    202
I would put the two psycannons here.
Quote
Fast Attack

Justicar with targeter and melta bombs and 5 Grey Knights, 2 with psycannons    232pts

Justicar with targeter and melta bombs and 5 Grey Knights, 2 with psycannons    232pts
This may or may not work. I would try it a few times first see if you like it before you invest in the models. I like plain ten man squads here my self but it is a style & preferences thing. I would say try different setups here till you find the one that works for you.
Quote

Heavy Support

Grey Knights Dreadnought with twin-linked lascannon, missile launcher, extra armor, and smoke   148pts

Grey Knights Dreadnought with twin-linked lascannon, missile launcher, extra armor, and smoke   148pts

Grey Knights Land Raider Crusader with smoke and searchlight   259pts

Total:  1,850pts

EDIT:  Updated my list
I like the heavy because it makes your Crusader not be the only armor to shoot at. I see your overall idea with this list and I think it will work for you once you get it down.
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Offline AceKng1

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Re: 1,850pt Grey Knights List
« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2006, 11:32:08 PM »
I'm just starting Grey Knights and want to know what you think of this list.

HQ

Grandmaster with Psycannon and Holocaust and Master Crafted Force Weapon  210pts

retinue
4 Grey Knight Terminators with psycannon    209pts
You can only have two of the terminators with psycannons, and your points are off because that would be 234pt. I would suggest not using holocaust because it hits your guys to, and if any of the terminators fail the save there goes a lot of point.

You should drop all the psycannons on your terminators because you are wasting points if they shoot them enough to make them worth while. Terminators should be in close combat. Also your terminators lose truegrit if they have psycannons. Before anyone argues they don’t have truegrit it says in the Grey Knight terminators entry that they have all of the Grey Knight rules on page8. The truegrit rule on page8 is replaced by the one in the BMG, and the BMG says nothing about Grey Knight terminators not being able to use truegrit.

The retinue only has one psycannon, not four, and terminators can only take one psycannon per squad, not two.  Check the unit entry.  Sorry I didn't make it clear that I only had one in the squad.

Also if I am smart about unit positioning then holocaust will not hit my own troops.  I still think true grit does not apply to terminators so I am not overly worried about losing it with the psycannon.

The 2 psycannons in the deepstriking squads is to land behind enemy armor and pop the rear armor.  If I try this several times and this doesn't work then I will take your suggestion and move them to the footsloggers, though the footsloggers are all about anti troop meaning I want the nemesis force weapons. 

Thanks for the advice!
« Last Edit: November 30, 2006, 11:33:35 PM by acekng1 »
Grandmaster of the Caerleon Crusades Grey Knight Company who in times of need are supported by the Vulkarian 41st Heavy Drop Company.<br /><br />"We may be outnumbered and out gunned,<br />But our weapons are ready, our grav-chutes are charged, and we have the element of surprise."<br />-Slogan of the Vulkarian 41st Heavy Drop Company<br /><br />Farseer of the Naran-ju Craftworld<br /><br />"Fear us, for we are the Eldar.  We bring your doom."<br />-Warchant of the Naran-ju Craftworld Eldar

Offline Kjata

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Re: 1,850pt Grey Knights List
« Reply #6 on: December 1, 2006, 12:14:16 AM »
No, if you mess up your Perils of the Warp, it kills them ALL...
And I personnally like bigger squads of GKs, thats just me tho.

Offline BlueAnubis

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Re: 1,850pt Grey Knights List
« Reply #7 on: December 1, 2006, 01:12:31 AM »
Never noticed that they could only take one, I don't use any of the weapon options on my terminators. They do have truegrit. You do not use the truegrit rules written in the codex. You use the rules as written in the BMG. The power armour restriction does not exist in 4th ed.
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Offline Master Bio-Titan BT

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Re: 1,850pt Grey Knights List
« Reply #8 on: December 1, 2006, 02:06:34 AM »
The retinue only has one psycannon, not four, and terminators can only take one psycannon per squad, not two.  Check the unit entry.  Sorry I didn't make it clear that I only had one in the squad.

Also if I am smart about unit positioning then holocaust will not hit my own troops.  I still think true grit does not apply to terminators so I am not overly worried about losing it with the psycannon.

Exactly correct!!  Blue Anubis is incorrect!

Never noticed that they could only take one, I don't use any of the weapon options on my terminators. They do have truegrit. You do not use the truegrit rules written in the codex. You use the rules as written in the BMG. The power armour restriction does not exist in 4th ed.

GKT do not get True Grit!  The conflict is with the Codex stating, "Models in Power Armour" benefit from True Grit.  So you are wrong, its okay, a rookie mistake.  Defend if you like but I am not going to argue with you about it as it happens in the threads every month.


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Offline BlueAnubis

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Re: 1,850pt Grey Knights List
« Reply #9 on: December 1, 2006, 03:39:43 AM »
The retinue only has one psycannon, not four, and terminators can only take one psycannon per squad, not two.  Check the unit entry.  Sorry I didn't make it clear that I only had one in the squad.

Also if I am smart about unit positioning then holocaust will not hit my own troops.  I still think true grit does not apply to terminators so I am not overly worried about losing it with the psycannon.

Exactly correct!!  Blue Anubis is incorrect!
There is no way you can place the units so they can not get hit by it if you are maintaining unit coherency. The only time this power may be worth taking is when your GM is going solo. Still 20 points is way overpriced for a dismal power. It is definitely not worth the peril of the warp test.

Never noticed that they could only take one, I don't use any of the weapon options on my terminators. They do have truegrit. You do not use the truegrit rules written in the codex. You use the rules as written in the BMG. The power armour restriction does not exist in 4th ed.
Quote
GKT do not get True Grit!  The conflict is with the Codex stating, "Models in Power Armour" benefit from True Grit.  So you are wrong, its okay, a rookie mistake.  Defend if you like but I am not going to argue with you about it as it happens in the threads every month.
The only noob here is you since you obviously have never read page 74 of the BMG, and you still think the 3rd ed daemon hunters teleport homers work in 4th ed. Acekng1 do not listen to this nonsense.
It is real simple Grey Knight terminators & heroes both have the special rule Grey Knights which says they are subject to the rules on page8. This means they have truegrit. Under 3rd ed the rules they could not use it because said it only units in power armour could, but in 4th ed as of page 74 which states “The following unit special rules are definitive versions, and replace special rules of rules of the same name printed in full in codexes.” This means you do not use anything written under truegrit as written in the codex. Use the rule as written on page76 of the BMG. There is no restriction to units only in power armour.
It is ok BT I know it is hard for some people to read big words like definitive.
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Offline Master Bio-Titan BT

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Re: 1,850pt Grey Knights List
« Reply #10 on: December 1, 2006, 05:03:17 AM »
Okay, reread the Holocaust rules.  The GM is an IC so only he would be effected by a PoW attack and not the retinue.  If it is used by a BC in an Elites squad then the whole squad would be effected.

It is ok BT I know it is hard for some people to read big words like definitive.

Dude, don't even try to insult my intelligence.  I have a masters in Nursing and am one of the top recognized nurses in the busiest Trauma Hospital in Virginias Emergency departments!  I know where I stand!

Like I said, I am not going to argue with you.


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Offline Martin Chaen

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Re: 1,850pt Grey Knights List
« Reply #11 on: December 1, 2006, 11:15:52 AM »
Terminator Armor already grants you +1 attack which I've always taken to mean that you cannot get another +1 attack for being armed with two close combat weapons (as per the rules on p40 of the BGB under "Attacks"). I don't know anyone who plays GK Terminators getting 3 attacks each round. They follow the standard "shoot assault weaponry (or heavy since they're Terminators), charge with +1A, then use profile # of attacks for next round" routine.

Moving slightly more on-topic: If I were to change your list in any way, I'd say keep the GM with retinue, Crusader and the two dreadnoughts. Increase the size of your two mandatory squads to make them more durable and keep the psycannons there, then merge the two fast attack choices into one squad, using Incinerators instead of psycannons. However, the list is perfectly playable as it is, and the changes are more due to my own personal playing style than anything else. I'll explain why just in case you might want to know ;-)

First off, I always felt the Incinerator to be a perfect Deep Strike weapon, but if you're kitting them out for light anti-tank, stay with the Psycannon. Personally I equip my fast attack squad with one or two incinerators, a complement of 10 men, and kick them next to some juicy heavy weapon squads where their massed Storm Bolter and Incinerator fire can really do some serious damage. In my experience this has been highly effective, whereas by targeting tanks you will waste a lot of those precious Storm Bolter shots. I say let the Dreadnoughts and Crusader deal with the armor, that's what they're there for. Keeping two squads in reserve and waiting for them to deep strike can also wreak havoc with your game plan, whereas one squad will usually be able to do some good SOMEWHERE on the playing field.

That being said, I also prefer the Grand Master over the Brother-Captain. That force weapon is just too good to give up. I still remember the time he took out two Hive Tyrants single handedly and then charged a bunch of termagants... *sighs* Aaaah, those where the days.
On the other hand, he DOES cost a lot of points, you DO lose the ability to use Holocaust every assault round (as the force weapon is the only psychic power you're allowed if you use it) and a Brother-Captain will usually be more than enough to lead the rest of your Terminators to victory. But, if you regularly face off against armies containing nasty beasties (Hive Tyrants and Wraithlords spring to mind), I'd stay with the Grand-Master ;)

Personally I always maximize my Terminator squad when fielding a Land Raider Crusader as 8 Terminators jumping out of that thing is nothing if not impressive. Furthermore, the Holocaust rules states that the ordnance template be placed "anywhere in contact with the psyker" meaning that with some clever positioning you can avoid taking any hits on your own squad whatsoever. I don't really see how anyone could call Holocaust dismal. For 20 points you get to inflict a S5 hit on pretty much everything left standing after the Terminators are done swinging their force halberds, and if you're going against lightly armored swarms this is invaluable. Besides, the risk of suffering a PotW hit isn't all that high, and I'd definitely say it's worth it.

There's no doubt that an all-out Grey Knights army is a tough army to play. However, the sweet feeling of accomplishment you get when you actually manage to smear the battlescarred wasteland full of the filthy corrupted remains of the enemy can only be described in one word: Priceless!

Enjoy the tournament in Florida, acekng1. And remember: The Emperor Protects!
« Last Edit: December 2, 2006, 11:14:35 AM by Marcus Caine »
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Offline BlueAnubis

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Re: 1,850pt Grey Knights List
« Reply #12 on: December 1, 2006, 07:06:28 PM »
Okay, reread the Holocaust rules.  The GM is an IC so only he would be effected by a PoW attack and not the retinue.  If it is used by a BC in an Elites squad then the whole squad would be effected.
Did I say POW affects the retinue? No I said it is not worth the POW roll, which it is not. Wounding your very costly model with a. ok power is not worth the risk. The power will still hit units in your retinue under the template. Due to the fact that you have to charge the closes enemy model you tend to set up in a way that will cause you to hit your own units. That whole thing about clever set up makes no sense being that you tend two not control the enemy setup. Then all it takes is one failed save throw and bam you lose a terminator.
It is ok BT I know it is hard for some people to read big words like definitive.
Quote
Dude, don't even try to insult my intelligence.  I have a masters in Nursing and am one of the top recognized nurses in the busiest Trauma Hospital in Virginias Emergency departments!  I know where I stand!

Has to do with your reading comprehension how? For all I know you passed all your English classes with a 70.
Quote
Like I said, I am not going to argue with you.

I did not say anything to you. It was directied to Acekng1 "Acekng1 do not listen to this nonsense."
I was only stating the rules as written to him so he unddersud them.
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Offline Black Sword

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Re: 1,850pt Grey Knights List
« Reply #13 on: December 1, 2006, 08:48:06 PM »
Less caffiene, gentlemen, please.....  :o

There is no need to jam each other over a mini's game.  The GKT/True Grit arguement happens time & again.  It happens here, and on the GW forums (well, at least THAT won't happen anymore)...

From the offical Deamonhunters FAQ on the GW site:
Quote
Universal Special Rules
Where these terms appear in Codex: Daemonhunters, please reer to the Universal Special Rules section of the revised Warhammer 40,000 rulebook:
Fearless, Infiltrate, True Grit

Better yet, I would like to suggest that we stay on the topic, and off each-other's backs...  ;)

@aceking1:  As some have noted, some of these choices are play-style driven.  Try it out, and most importantly... Have fun.

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Offline Draza

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Re: 1,850pt Grey Knights List
« Reply #14 on: December 1, 2006, 08:59:58 PM »
Quote
The only noob here is you since you obviously have never read page 74 of the BMG, and you still think the 3rd ed daemon hunters teleport homers work in 4th ed. Acekng1 do not listen to this nonsense.
It is real simple Grey Knight terminators & heroes both have the special rule Grey Knights which says they are subject to the rules on page8. This means they have truegrit. Under 3rd ed the rules they could not use it because said it only units in power armour could, but in 4th ed as of page 74 which states “The following unit special rules are definitive versions, and replace special rules of rules of the same name printed in full in codexes.” This means you do not use anything written under truegrit as written in the codex. Use the rule as written on page76 of the BMG. There is no restriction to units only in power armour.
It is ok BT I know it is hard for some people to read big words like definitive.

Guys, keep it civil. There is to be no personal attacks on this web-site. If someone doesn't understand a rule, explain it to them, do not make fun of them. Keep this place friendly

As for True grit, GW once said that if they didn't have it before in 3rd edition they don't have it now. Doesn't really apply anymore since the forums closed down but can definetly see why people don't think GKT if they've read that comment. I don't play DH so it doesn't really bother me

Offline Master Bio-Titan BT

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Re: 1,850pt Grey Knights List
« Reply #15 on: December 1, 2006, 09:10:27 PM »
Hey, its cool on my end, I don't mean any insults, just trying to clear things up.

@BluAnnibus:  I know we can both agree that a PoW attack roll is not worth it on a BC as that would outright kill him.  But on a GM is isn't so bad.  I have always taken a retinue of 4 or 6 termies and have never had him allocate attacks to him (even with sticking to the IC CC rules of engagement) and with his initiative has always killed any threats that are BtB with him so the only chance that I have really ever had is taking a wound from a PoW attack which has only happened once to me, but certainly did not kill him.

Now, Holocaust is a precaution psych power if fighting against horde armies, definately great against any plaguebearers or Genestealers with their rending attacks.  In a single game, maybe not so worth it, but in a Tournament, most definately.

Sorry for the misunderstanding of who the Pow attacks, that is what I thought we were talking about and debating.

RE what Draza said about the True Grit, I have seen these posts on the GW website and they do say that they do not get it as they never intended it to be that way.  For example, the points cost spent from a normal Smurf Termie to a GKT is not that far off, and definately does not reflect the points added to get another attack for True Grit, but for the points we get the Shrouding, Aegis, etc. etc..


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Offline -The Reaper-

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Re: 1,850pt Grey Knights List
« Reply #16 on: December 1, 2006, 09:24:06 PM »
Holocaust? Thats possibly one of my favourite psychic powers there is! (guess i play Nids to much  ;) ). While it is a pain to have to roll one or two wounds on your own men during a game, nothing is more fun when the combat clears up then you remind your opponent that you have a fat pie plate yet to place.. Really has saved my bacon a few times!! Yes, it may be that you lose a termie once in a while to it, but when your killing an extra load of guants or orks it tends to even out. 20 points for the power, you place it once and you can almost gaurantee that it will make its points back that turn.

On the GKT, true grit thing. Untill i hear a confirmation in a FAQ then i'm using them the way they were, they are already a great deal for the points cost as it is and to add an extra attack seems a little much..
« Last Edit: December 1, 2006, 09:25:42 PM by DB_Reaper »

Offline Black Sword

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Re: 1,850pt Grey Knights List
« Reply #17 on: December 2, 2006, 02:44:44 AM »
On the GKT, true grit thing. Untill i hear a confirmation in a FAQ then i'm using them the way they were, they are already a great deal for the points cost as it is and to add an extra attack seems a little much..

I'm not sure if this is what you mean...

From the offical Deamonhunters FAQ on the GW site:

Quote
Universal Special Rules
Where these terms appear in Codex: Daemonhunters, please reer to the Universal Special Rules section of the revised Warhammer 40,000 rulebook:
Fearless, Infiltrate, True Grit

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Offline Master Bio-Titan BT

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Re: 1,850pt Grey Knights List
« Reply #18 on: December 2, 2006, 04:51:06 AM »
On the GKT, true grit thing. Untill i hear a confirmation in a FAQ then i'm using them the way they were, they are already a great deal for the points cost as it is and to add an extra attack seems a little much..

I'm not sure if this is what you mean...

From the offical Deamonhunters FAQ on the GW site:

Quote
Universal Special Rules
Where these terms appear in Codex: Daemonhunters, please reer to the Universal Special Rules section of the revised Warhammer 40,000 rulebook:
Fearless, Infiltrate, True Grit



Right, that is where people are getting the rules for True Grit applying them to GKT, but the codex clearly states that it only applies to models in power armour.  The FAQ refers to the BGB which does not say a thing about restricting to power armour models, thus giving people the impression that it does apply.

Well, how about plague marine termies, do they get true grit!?


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Offline Black Sword

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Re: 1,850pt Grey Knights List
« Reply #19 on: December 2, 2006, 10:13:07 AM »
I stay as fay away from chaos as possible, so no opinion on those guys....  ;)

Is *that* what the controversy is?  Man, I never really worried about that, as I know that GW is a bit odd in making us all look at publication dates.  At our shop, I always played that the older 'dex was to allow the power armour guys to have it, and the newer BGB was used to detail the termies and everyone else.  This has never even come up.  Lots of things have come up, but not that.

Well, I guess I'll put that on my "things to clarify with the tourney director BEFORE the games start" list.  Hmmm... That sounds like a whole thread all to itself....
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