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Author Topic: How many warlocks can you get  (Read 3580 times)

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Offline labmouse42

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How many warlocks can you get
« on: January 29, 2002, 11:13:25 PM »
I read this in the FAQ here
http://www.eldaronline.com/FAQ.shtml

===================
Can you still have five Warlocks in a unit with the Farseer, even if you assign Warlocks to Guardian, Wraithguard or Jetbike squads?

Nope. Five is the total maximum/Farseer. In other words, if you have two Farseers, you could have a total maximum of ten Warlocks in your army, etc.
===================

This conflicts of what was said here

===================
The Codex Eldar establishes the limit of 5 warlocks per farseer,
under the warlock entry, which says:

"they must either REMAIN in a unit with the farseer, or they may be assigned to join" appropriate squads that allow.

So they begin with the farseer, at a limit of 5, and then may be re-assigned by you. You cannot then re-fill the bodyguard, as per the "Each farseer allows you to field up to 5 warlocks" rule.

The only reason for a misunderstanding of this rule comes from a blurb in the Q&A which says:
If a Warlock is assigned to squad duty, he doesn't still count as one of the five in the Farseer's Retinue or the three in a Seer Council.

When asked to clarify that, wether they no longer count toward total warlocks, or count as part of the bodyguard,
the answer was pretty clear:
This is clarifying the point that Warlocks who are reassigned are no longer considered part of the original unit for the purposes of VPs, half strength and so forth.

So I can't count the warlock in my wraithguard as maintaining my mandatory 3 in the council (ulthwe' only) I will have to buy another..(ulthwe' only)
Or my warlock in the wraithguard doesn't count as part of the HQ choice for farseer+bodyguard anymore for the purposes stated above. That's all they were saying.

Nothing has ever allowed more than 5 total warlocks per farseer except for the Ulthwe' list where there is no limit, as they will likely run a lot of guardian and WG squads, and they have lots of warlocks in their craftworld to go around.

Hope this clears it up, I know you're tired of the issue, I really think this needed to be posted in this FAQ section.
===================

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Offline labmouse42

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Re:How many warlocks can you get
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2002, 11:13:52 PM »
They shall all drown in lakes of blood.
Now they will learn why they are afraid of the dark
Now they will learn why they fear the night.
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Offline RedTwo

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Re:How many warlocks can you get
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2002, 11:57:09 PM »
I didn't realize this was a point of confussion.  Well, if it helps some players then all the better.
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Offline Farseer Lael

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Re:How many warlocks can you get
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2002, 01:44:50 AM »
Where ever you read that, its wrong. Warlocks are one of the exception to the rules as it can go to a varity of squads, so putting it in the HQ section was the most relviant area to put it.

A warlock can't start the army on their own. They must remain with a Farseer, or they may be assinged to join a Wraithguard or Guardian squad for the points requred. It counts towards that units vp's and not the Farseers. With the exception of the Farseers body guard (and the seer council), you cannot have more then 1 warlock per squad.

Everytime you place a warlock with a squad, he doesn't count towards the Farseers retinue because he isn't joined with the Farseer. So you can still have 5 warlocks with the Farseer and 5 warlocks out in squads. 5 warlocks IS NOT the limit of warlocks per army, its the limit that can accompany the Farseer.

With the exception of the Seer council which must have always 3 warlocks with it, there is no limit on how many warlocks can be in the seer council. So you could have 50 if you wanted to.

I have 12 warlocks in my 2000pt army. 6 with my seer council and 6 with other squads (3 defender, 1 storm, 1 support platform and 1 wraithguard).

Whats so difficult about it?
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Offline c-meister

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Re:How many warlocks can you get
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2002, 06:21:24 AM »
Taken from GW's FAQ (Eldar section):

"7) If a Warlock is assigned to squad duty, does he still count as one of the five in the Farseer's Retinue?

No."
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Offline RedTwo

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Re:How many warlocks can you get
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2002, 10:42:53 AM »
Okay, my mistake, apparently there is some confusion on this issue after all.

You can have up to five Warlocks per Farseer.  It doesn't matter where the Warlocks are assigned.  A Warlock attached to a Guardian squad does not count as part of the Farseer's retinue, but he DOES count against the 5 to 1 ratio.

Example:
You have 1 Farseer.  Now you assign 1 Warlock to a group of Storm Guardians and 1 to a group of Wraithguards.  That means you can only have three Warlocks for the Farseer's retinue.  The Warlocks attached to the Guardians and Wraithguards do NOT count as members of the Farseer's retinue, but they DO count against the 5:1 ratio of Farseers to Warlock.  If you want more Warlocks you have to add another Farseer.

Come on guys, this really isn't that though.  Maybe the Craftworld Eldar make it more complicated, but Codex Eldar are pretty straight forward on this issue.
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Offline the_Bard_72

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Re:How many warlocks can you get
« Reply #6 on: February 1, 2002, 10:30:11 PM »
RedTwo hit the nail on the head, although I have to admit, that's a hefty nail to hit.  He's right in that it is VERY obvious.  Codex Eldar get 5 Warlocks per Farseer.  These warlocks can be assigned to other units.  Those so assigned are part of the unit they are put with and are therefore not counted as part of the Farseers Retinue.  
Under the Farseer entry in the Codex, it clearly states that the "Farseer may be accompanied by up to 5 Warlocks (see separate entry)."  Right across the page it says, and again I quote: "Each Farseer allows you to field up to 5 Warlocks....they must either remain in a unit with the Farseer, or they may be assigned"
Pretty cut and dry, folks
the Bard
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Re:How many warlocks can you get
« Reply #7 on: February 2, 2002, 12:33:09 AM »
so without the other text...

if you have 1 farseer, you may have 5 warlocks in that game (guardian unit, bikes, etc...)

if you have 2 farseers, you may have 10 warlocks in the game (no more than 5 in a farseer's group though)

In ulthwe, you can have as many as you want...

remember that unless it's an iyanden spiritseer, they cannot move on their own... so what happens if the rest of the unit dies and he passes his leadership test?

Offline Lord Calamir

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Re:How many warlocks can you get
« Reply #8 on: February 2, 2002, 04:29:49 AM »
I guess the Last Man Standing rules would be applied in this case...
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Offline Farseer_Strider

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Re:How many warlocks can you get
« Reply #9 on: February 2, 2002, 10:48:00 AM »
I always thought it was 5 for every farseer
meh

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Offline labmouse42

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Re:How many warlocks can you get
« Reply #10 on: February 2, 2002, 11:16:59 AM »
========================================
Taken from GW's FAQ (Eldar section):

"7) If a Warlock is assigned to squad duty, does he still count as one of the five in the Farseer's Retinue?

No."
========================================

First of all, this came out after the codex, and what is in the game FAQs are updates the codex.   This is shown in example though the cost of jetbike warlocks only being 36 points, and not 41 points.

So, what does this statement mean?  
It means that if a warlock is moved to a squad, it does not count as one of the five in the retinue.  That would mean that you may still have up to five in the retinue after you have moved a warlock to the squad.

This statement would be irrelevent if it was not possible to have more than 5 warlocks per farseer, but for some reason GW put it out in the FAQ.
This seems clear to me that the FAQ clarifies that you have have as many warlocks in squads as you like, provided you have at least one farseer.
They shall all drown in lakes of blood.
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Now they will learn why they fear the night.
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Offline the_Bard_72

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Re:How many warlocks can you get
« Reply #11 on: February 2, 2002, 11:31:08 AM »
No, no, no, and yet another no.

It clearly states 5 warlocks to a farseer in the Codex.  This question has NOTHING to do with the number of Farseers, but rather whether or not the assigned warlocks are counted as part of the Farseers unit for LD tests, Last Man Standing, etc.  He is not asking "how many warlocks can I have?" anywhere in that question.
In the same FAQ, it is clearly stated that the Farseer and his Warlocks (limited to 5/Farseer in the codex) are considered one HQ choice.  Given this, how do you explain getting 6 warlocks to a Farseer?  It can't happen!
Also, I would appreciate it if someone would tell me where to find this glorius GW FAQ that has this question in it.  The only FAQ that I've seen is the one from CA or the Eldar portion of their website.  Not that it changes my answer any, but it would appear that I'm missing something here.
In case you missed it: 1) The given FAQ question is about how Farseers and Warlocks relate while making your army selection.  2) Warlocks are part of the Farseers squad for selection, but may be reassigned to other units.  3) By definition, only 5 warlocks to a Farseer.  4) the Retinue is made up of the warlocks guarding the Farseer - warlocks assigned to other duties become a part of that squad.  5) This assignment happens AFTER army selection and this question addresses how to treat a warlock in the game, not during selection.
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Offline the_Bard_72

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Re:How many warlocks can you get
« Reply #12 on: February 2, 2002, 12:15:53 PM »
Okay, found this amazing FAQ you all are referring to in a few places, none of which are GW sites, magazines, or books.  Can someone show me a CA or place on their website making any of this legit?
Also, on every copy I found, the "Last Updated" date was an astounding 6/09/00.  The current Eldar FAQ (on GW's site and in CA) was originally printed in CA (WD #250)  in NOVEMBER 2000.  Even given the print date being ahead and that I have the US version and the UK gets it a month earlier, this is STILL after the FAQ everyone is quoting from, undermining its validity.  Not to mention that NO WHERE in the FAQ does it say it is official...good rulings...but not official.
Having said that, can someone show me an OFFICIAL ruling supporting more than 5 Warlocks/Farseer?  I seriously doubt it as, like I mentioned before, the codex is very clear on this issue and it ISN'T clarified/changed in any official ruling that I've seen.  Even the unofficial ruling above doesn't change it IMHO.
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Offline labmouse42

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Re:How many warlocks can you get
« Reply #13 on: February 2, 2002, 12:46:40 PM »
Well, Bard, im looking at your post and while you do bear some logic, mostly whaat I see is an emotional rant.  You should avoid multiple uses of caps if you wish to make a clear statement.  

One thing I did find though was this.
===================
The only reason for a misunderstanding of this rule comes from a blurb in the Q&A which says:

If a Warlock is assigned to squad duty, he doesn't still count as one of the five in the Farseer's Retinue or the three in a Seer Council.

When asked to clarify that, wether they no longer count toward total warlocks, or count as part of the bodyguard, the answer was pretty clear:

This is clarifying the point that Warlocks who are reassigned are no longer considered part of the original unit for the purposes of VPs, half strength and so forth.
=================

That is a logical arguemnt to state that there are still only five warlocks per farseer.  This seems to fall into line with both what the codex and the FAQ states.
As this was in my second link, Im rather suprised that noone here actually clicked on it.

In this, I will disagree with Farseer Lael in his statement that you can have as many warlocks as you wish.
The exception to this, of course, is the Ulthwe craftworld list.
They shall all drown in lakes of blood.
Now they will learn why they are afraid of the dark
Now they will learn why they fear the night.
- Thulsa Doom

Offline Niran of Asha An

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Re:How many warlocks can you get
« Reply #14 on: February 2, 2002, 12:53:51 PM »
it is 5 warlocks per 'seer except in the case of ulthwe.   It says in the codex 5 (five) warlocks per farseer.  mor may be reassigned (not added but re-assigned) to other squads.
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Offline the_Bard_72

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Re:How many warlocks can you get
« Reply #15 on: February 2, 2002, 03:07:52 PM »
Labmouse, I appreciate the suggestion about multiple caps, but it was far from an emotional rant.  It was only the third time that I was restating the exact same thing that I and others had said.  It is a pet peeve of mine for people to quote from sources other than official to explain a ruling (as this is not allowed in tourneys, etc).  The caps were simply meant to draw attention to my main points which were obviously ignored by some (as was your link).
Yet another reason for people to read all the posts before responding - they may have seen our initial posts, realizing that the rules are very clear - nothing hard to follow.
the Bard
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Offline Ghosteye

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Re:How many warlocks can you get
« Reply #16 on: February 2, 2002, 03:24:39 PM »
...so if you upgrade them to spiritseers, they still uses the warlock/farseer rule?

Offline Farseer Kiano

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Re:How many warlocks can you get
« Reply #17 on: February 2, 2002, 10:18:28 PM »
did i miss something or should this topic have ended many posts ago,
5 warlocks per farseer, and just because they don't count as his retinue doesn't mean you can get more...
simple, Iyanden or Ulthwé don't come into it
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Offline Farseer Lael

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Re:How many warlocks can you get
« Reply #18 on: February 3, 2002, 08:50:07 PM »
Have to admit my error.

It does state 5 warlocks to each Farseer, my apologies. I've always played Ulthwé and never had this problem.
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Offline fonkin

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Re:How many warlocks can you get
« Reply #19 on: February 4, 2002, 12:41:36 PM »
The way to look at it is like this:  You are not choosing a model, you are choosing a unit.  

If you choose "Farseer" as one of your HQ choices you can do what it says under "Farseer" in the HQ section of the rulebook/codex; you can purchase up to 5 warlocks and either attach them to a wg/guardian unit or keep them with the farseer as you see fit.  The "farseer" choice in the force org chart is not a figure, it is a unit choice, and any options you purchase along with that unit are considered a part of that choice.  The farseer figure is it's own entity, even though it is part of that unit.  

If you choose "Seer Council" as an HQ choice for your Ulthwe army, you can have what it says there:  up to 3 farseers and ANY NUMBER of warlocks.  Again, you are purchasing a Unit, not a model.  The "Seer Council" unit differs from the "Farseer" unit, although they share a troop type.  You could field a 2000 point army consisting of 2 units of 5 black guardians, and have an HQ consisting of 1 farseer and 40-odd warlocks, although this would be very cheesy and dumb.  

Hope this helps
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