Topic: Cover=not dying=good

[Crack Missle]

OK, question to anyone out there who cares to answer me.  Cover for vechicles (by which I mean blocking line of sight, not cover saves). Particularly grav tanks. How much is needed?  If you can see the top, does that mean you can shoot it? Do other units block line of sight? Guardians? Jetbikes? Vypers? Wraithguard? Running idea is for my grav tanks to stop dying so much, so any help with that would be appreciated.

l8r

[the_Bard_72]

LOS to vehicles is treated just like any other unit.  Models block los to other models up to twice their height...this is where you get into the debate of how high should the base of the falcon be..not going there.  
The way we play, its purely LOS and if it passes over another enemy models base, LOS is blocked.  As for the cover question, this is easy as we are an amiable lot.  Basically, we state something to the effect of "my falcon is hovering just below the tree line" or whatever assuming that the terrain in question is at least as tall as the falcon.  If not, we generally call it hull down.  We have been known to pull the base off the model to represent how low its flying just so we remember.
Again, we're an amiable and trusting bunch, so this rarely comes up....but don't even bring up the question of base height...we agree it doesn't matter, but we'll joke about how cheesy we can get with it...

[Dangonblane]

Do other units block line of sight? Guardians? Jetbikes? Vypers? Wraithguard?

Erm, No, No, Yes, No.

Only vehicles block LOS to other vehicles.  Infantry do not block LOS to vehicles, hence they cannot be used to shield vehicles.

[farseerlum]

some one told me you need to see at least 1/4 of the model to have a shot. but that could be guff.

certainly being behind cover will make your tank hull-down but my question is why do you want this?
moving over 6" gives the exact same defense whether behind a wall or no (which is sad but true).

[the_Bard_72]

Do other units block line of sight? Guardians? Jetbikes? Vypers? Wraithguard?

Only vehicles block LOS to other vehicles.  Infantry do not block LOS to vehicles, hence they cannot be used to shield vehicles.

Where are you getting this ruling?  Is it something I've missed?  In the BBB, it states that "enemy models and all vehicles...do block a unit's line of sight".   Note that I did mention that LOS needs to cross the base of an enemy model (per GW's wishy-washy rules FAQs), but if the model is half the height of the vehicle, it does block LOS in my book (which is where the base height question starts to get ridiculous).  Based on the short bases equipped with falcons, very few eldar models will block vehicle los, but it can happen.  If you have info on a rule actually stating the only vehicles block LOS to a vehicle, I'd love to know where its at as it'll change a few tactics very quickly.

[the_Bard_72]

Being the ever vigilant player I am, I pulled the FAQ off of GW's site (from CA).  Apparently, yet again, GW is changing the rulings for LOS.  While no offense was intended, my apologies, farseerlum.
Evidently, and I must say I disagree with this, "vehicles are far too substantial to be obscured by creatures, even cavalry or bike-mounted troops."  My biggest problem is how are we now to define "an ordinary model"?  Space marines in power armor seem pretty substantial, but terminator armor is even more so...but, from the way this is worded, even if you had a squad of 10 termies standing base to base screening a vehicle, they stand their for naught.  And what of a falcon zipping along behind a hill upon which stand a unit of guardians?  I suppose, even if its even with heads of the guardians, that it is considered hull down and can be shot at?  This is the sort of stuff that needs to be fixed in the 4th edition.  
Another thought.  They are considering the dreadnaught a vehicle in the example in the FAQ (presumable because it gets vehicle upgrades?)...I suppose a wraithlord, no less substantial, can be screened as its not a vehicle or is that yet another oversight by GW?  
Ah, well...by the rules, I goofed.  

[klardom]

I don't think that infantry can block LOS to dreads because dreads have an AV, not wounds.  I've heard somewhere that you have to come up to the knees of the model in order to block LOS, so wraithguard can block LOS to wraith lords.

you also have to think about how the vehicles are disproportionat.  There is no way that 10 marines fit in the rhino model (though i did hear something about a new one), but they don't want to make friggin massive tanks, and the Land Raider should probably also be bigger.  

All tournies (all one of them, anyway) that I have been to say that infantry can't block LOS to vehicles, and nobody has ever detested, hull down is provided for a "cover save" for vehicles because targeting vital points for a pen. hit is probably really hard through a stand of trees or the like.

[Niran of Asha An]

so let's say that you have a tank, it's 90% behind trees from the enemy vantage point. can they shoot it? i would say yes but then the hull-down rule seems inadequate. maybe a minus one one the table like the reinforced armor bonus (opposite of opened-topped).

[Alexander Falcorian]

so let's say that you have a tank, it's 90% behind trees from the enemy vantage point. can they shoot it? i would say yes but then the hull-down rule seems inadequate. maybe a minus one one the table like the reinforced armor bonus (opposite of opened-topped).

If they can see it, they can shoot it. I agree that GW should change the rules reguarding that, but that's how it is as of now.