Hey whats up. This is my first army critique so bare with:
HQ[/b]
Chaos Lord
Kai Gun
Terminator Armour
Lightning Claw
Daemonic Strength
Bionics (This is pretty much mandatory, since I'm using the IW rules )
=150pts
I think the Kai gun is a ridiculous weapon and can't imagine why anyone would ever consider using it, no offense.
Use your lord as a key counter assault piece instead, because he will be twice as useful in that capacity..
Give him a weapon like the dark blade (since he aint a prince, he could use the extra str)
Here is my Lord for IW:
Lord,
daemonic str,
daemonic mutation,
dark blade,
furious charge,
spiky bitz..
140pts
The only reason I gave him the bitz is because I cry every time one of his ~6~ juicy str ~8~ attacks on the charge misses.. hes init 6 on the charge so he'll strike first over other lords/HQ, auto kill them with his str 8 and wound tyranid monsterous creature/deamons/other toughness 6 amphetamine parrot on a 2.. that's the sweet spot. Don't even ask me what he'll do to space marines/chaos marines/ terms/ necrons/bikes/ other allegedly heavily armoured enemies in hth.. You can't ask for more than that from a man sized HQ. Plus he's ten points cheaper, can't be picked out etc.... lose the bitz and maybe go with the aura (or whatever gives the inv save) for a little defense. Most important tho - don't get too attached to him. Keep him light and focus on shooting your enemy. Hes only there in case things get nasty, and because you ~have~ to take him
E[/b]
4 Chosen Terminators
2 Lightning Claws
1 Reaper Autocannon
1 Chainfist
Aspiring Champ w/ Chainfist & Daemonic Strength
=205pt
I think terminators are too expensive.. chaos ones are more reasonable than SM ones - but only play em if you think they look cool or you like their fluff. for effectiveness, go with obliterators.. they are a little worse than they were before because they can be insta killed with str 8 weapons now, but who cares.. still awesome. at 140 for a squad of 2 they are much cheaper than the terms as well. personally i'd go with 3 squads of 2.. they are just THAT bad ass - especially since you aint got no tanks (more on that later).
T[/b]
(x2) 8 Chaos Space Marines
Infiltrate
Move Through Cover
2 Plasma Guns
=328pts (164/Unit)
I love squads of 8 so good call - not maxed out but still meaty to take some punishment - plus they come 8 to a box.. w00t! i'd equip em with 1 plas, 1 las cannon tho.. csm get lascannons for 15 points each.. a mere 5 more than the plas.. that's a good deal unless you are planning on having your men run around ~all~ the time.. which if you are i'd have to say go alpha legion as others suggested.. seems more in character. AND check this out - if you give each squad a champ with power fist/pistol and demonic mutation, thats some awesome counter assault.. with the new assault rules champions cant be picked out, meaning they gotta kill through 7 other marines to fish out the champ.. so when fighting a tyranid monster, wraithlord, even dreadnought, your champ can wail away 4 times at str 8 while those guys kill 1 or 2 regular marines per round.. (Example: SM dreadnought - 2 att.. hits once, kills one marine.. your champion will be done with it before he kills 3.. carnifex w/ 4 attacks - hits twice at WS 4, say wounds twice at str 10, costs to you 30pts. your champ retaliates, hitting twice, wounding once. four rounds of that and the carnifex will be killed and your squad doesnt even need counter assault backup. thats some cost effective hth. plus, what carnifex is going to make it all the way to your army unwounded.. none, thats how many.. you'll have too much lascannonage and plasma gunage my friend
(x3) 8 Chaos Space Marines
Infiltrate
Missile Launcher
=438pts (146/Unit)
cool but the infiltrate is too expensive in my book, especially because they wont get to use it about 1/3 of the time (missions that dont use the rule) if your opponent has some hidden junk behind a forest, deepstrike your oblits if they can. otherwise save the points (72 goes a long way) Also - why missile launchers? i can't stand em! a lascannon has twice the chance of effecting someones armour 14 tank, while a missle launcher has no chance of penetrating it... bad news. the only reason to take them is for the frag alternative rounds - which lets face it, aint even that good at killing troops any how. About 1/3 of the armies out there roll with spacemarine armour saves (be they SM, CSM, Necrons, Eldar aspect etc.. ) SM armour is THE armour to beat (thats why plasma is so great.) the frag shot will only hit say 4-5 man sized dudes (and that's generous unless your opponent is a chuckle head and has his men piled on top of each other) So, lets say it hits .66 of the time, wounds .5 of the time (against marine types) and gets past armour .33 of the time. multiply that by the 5 guys you hit - again, that's really conservative - and you get .50 space marines dead per shot. take a single las cannon shot: hits .66, wounds .84, no armour save, and that's .54 dead per shot. The lascannon turns out to be a better anti marine gun than the blast marker! now, I can already hear you all saying that with the marker you COULD kill more marines, and it certainly is more effective against other inf types (genestealers, orks, hormagaunts, guard, etc.) But, bolters will do the same thing.. and that is what everyone else in the entire army is armed with. *catches breath* good times.
HS[/b]
(x2) 8 Havocs
Infiltrate
Tank Hunters
4 Missile Launchers
=480pts (240/Unit)
I would highly discourage havac squads because they pay premium costs for their weapons, (for the privilege of having more per squad) and can no longer hide behind your other squads. I know you are avoiding tanks, but that wont stop your opponent from dropping a battle cannon/ particle whip/ demolisher cannon etc. shot right on your really expensive havocs first chance he or shes gets. and since they are armed with missile launchers, they can only pen a Leman Russ battle tank on a 6, or glance a monolith on a 6 - so good luck stopping them. Too many points tied up in one place - at least split the squad into two.
Now, bare in mind that all of my review has been written from the point of view of an admitted tactical player (aka power gamer). I like crushing people with iron warriors. I do other things for flavor. I mean, Im a nice guy, play friendly, don't complain when I lose, and LOVE seeing other peoples takes and perspectives on their own armies. It's a great game for flavor, competition, painting - all of the things we have come to know and love about it. But, that still doesn't stop people from tanking my sportsmanship score (of course).
And you know, I never really faulted anyone for that because I really do consider myself a good sport. But at the 2003 seatle GT, I watched an eldar player give my friend a bad sportsmanship score because my friend was playing with 2 wraithlords - and wraithlords are "cheese". Well, my friend ~could~ have played with 3, but didn't. And my friends opponent was playing an all dire avenger army with a bunch of wave serpents.. Of course he got his ass kicked! I have full respect to awesomely painted, or awesomely conceived armies (full of flavor) but Jesus don't complain when someone beats you in a tournament with a tactical army. i mean c'mon, ~all~ dire avengers? who the hell did he expect to beat? props for flavor, but to hell with that guy's sportsmanship. People who construct armies for flavor often complain about other so called "cheese" armies. But the ~first~ sign of bad sportsman is complaining about a lost game.
As a side note, I now try to make sure my victory score + painting scores are so high my low sportsmanship score don't matter for amphetamine parrot. JK..... sort of
Anyhoo, over all, nifty army. It's noble that you are trying to go tankless.. I love armies that purposefully handicap themselves, be it because they want to try a new angle or win with a different army list than all of the other players use. But ultimately I think you guys came down too hard on that one dude (whom I can't be bothered to scroll back and check his name). Tanks would make the army more winnier, granted, and I know that isn't what you are looking for - but check this out: two of the IW special rules are tank oriented: a.) they can have 1 more heavy support (of which there are six armour selections and only one infantry selection) and b.) IW are allowed to include two bonus tanks that no other CSM army can have. Plus the servo arm can, like, fix tanks n' sheeit. Seems pretty evident from their special entries that tanks play a pretty large roll in the army for the most part. Of course, before you cry out, "that doesn't mean they MUST include them" I know it doesn't. But to argue that the fluff doesnt at least ~suggest~ using more tanks, is just nonsense.
So please, It's late - I usually never respond to posts so I humbly apologize if I swept over something that has already been said in the topic that I missed. And by all means let me know what you all think of all this stuff. I love Warhammer, and I love discussing it.
Peace,
ninjaLad
PS. To the guys that said tanks die in like the first/second round: If your basilisk is getting blown up that often - try having it not lead your army into battle
Put it behind a forest or mountain range in the back. A good 33% of the games I play, my basilisk never gets destroyed at all. And let me tell you: at a trim 150 pts. it sure blows a LOT of amphetamine parrot up (tanks, infantry equally - the beauty of ordinance). I'll see you tankless wonders at the next rogue trader/ gt