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Author Topic: 2k Iron Warriors Rules (All Infantry)  (Read 2147 times)

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Offline CD

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Re: 2k Iron Warriors Rules (All Infantry)
« Reply #20 on: June 9, 2005, 05:10:59 PM »
Stolen Soul: Termies count as one Elite choice, regardless of the number of Termies. Hence, two Oblits works. "God that just drives me nuts"

The theme of Iron Warriors is that they're Siege Specialists. It specifically mentions that they have large forces of shock troops which are infantry-based. Infantry can also have big guns. Problems? None. IW aren't tanks, people just tend to use a lot.

Quote
so let me get this strate you try to save a reputation of an army which you yet openly admit that is "an army full of powergamign cheese Warriors armed to the brim in tanks is lame"

so now not only have you stolen a chunk of fluff because you cant make your own, and made a complet mockery of, but now you tell us you hate the fluff anyway.

Grats you have been vertu-slapped, in support of the incereassed need of cyber fighting

*sigh*

He doesn't say that he hates the fluff, he says that he hates the way traditional Iron Warrior armies are composed, by people like you. He's going true to the fluff, not saying that he hates it. If he hated it he wouldn't be playing it. He's insulting the people who make boring, tank-oriented armies, since nothing in the fluff states that IW armies are focused mainly on tanks.


Quote
with iron warrior you laydown high firepower support and do not depend on counter attack but only a few options of high defense units like some obblits, possessed, supped up demon lords and CSM.
you got chewed up because you made the "lame" list that did properly compensate for this weakness. END OF STORY

You do realize that "possessed" and "supped up demon lords" are forms of counter-attack? Please stop contradicting your own advice, it makes other people on the forum think that you're an idiot. :P

Quote
I'm so upset as well because rattling snipers get tuned up every time i send them into close combat,
lets see basilisk is a long range artillery piece that specialises in long rage support far behind friendly lines, so what the hell is it doing in the open that it gets shot first-second turn. think about what it says in the fluff, seeing as that happens to be the one thing driving people nuts here, hell join the party

Do you realize that using indirect fire is a COMMON TACTIC? So common in fact, that people have ways to deal with it? Ever heard of firing platforms? You know, Landspeeder squadrons, Vypers, infiltrating or deepstriking troops with anti tank-capabilities? That's one very dead basilisk. "Putting it behind cover" is far from an undefeatable strategy, and I've seen very few games where such vehicles aren't blown up immediately.

As for the list.

You don't really need move through cover, and the Plasma in the second squad is unnecessary with a ML. The Havocs are great.

Everything looks fine and dandy. Nothing that I can really pick out besides the Plasma, which is quite an accomplishment for those who see my average List reviews. Great job on it. ;)

Offline -Makenshi-

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Re: 2k Iron Warriors Rules (All Infantry)
« Reply #21 on: June 9, 2005, 05:20:44 PM »
True, but I find the Plasma compliments the range of the missile Launcher better than the other special weapons, it allows me that extra high S shot before they get too close.

move through cover was made for some visual ideas i had at the time, although now it's mainly a point filler I'll probably work it into soem fluff, infiltrate and move through cover do make sense when put together, you have to admit :D.

~MTWC
Quote from: IainC
Because spamming the hotkey for a Deathknight's weapon in WoW is precisely the same as learning to use a sword in real life. That's why when Kendo grandmasters fight, they just stand there shouting keystroke combos at each other.

Offline CD

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Re: 2k Iron Warriors Rules (All Infantry)
« Reply #22 on: June 9, 2005, 05:26:29 PM »
My only point against Plasma with the Missile Launcher is that if you're shooting at a Tank, the Plasma probably won't be in range, and if you're shooting at infantry, the Plasma doesn't help much, and there's still the risk of it getting hot. Taking the Missile Launcher essentially means that the squad will focus on Tank Hunting and light Infantry Hunting, where Plasma is Heavy Infantry hunting, the uncomfortable middleground (since MLs can't deal with very heavy infantry).

I just want the squads to be specialized. Squads should have one purpose, unless they're ML-Bolter squads or LC-Bolt Pistol squads, in which case they can have duel roles. Other combinations (ie Plasma with anything but a second Plasma) are inefficient and try to do too many things while sacrificing their other good points, which is why I'm not a big fan.

Offline -Makenshi-

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Re: 2k Iron Warriors Rules (All Infantry)
« Reply #23 on: June 9, 2005, 05:32:19 PM »
Hmmm, so drop the plasma and use the points for what? I could try to cut down on other things and get soem champions...

~MTWC
Quote from: IainC
Because spamming the hotkey for a Deathknight's weapon in WoW is precisely the same as learning to use a sword in real life. That's why when Kendo grandmasters fight, they just stand there shouting keystroke combos at each other.

Offline CD

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Re: 2k Iron Warriors Rules (All Infantry)
« Reply #24 on: June 9, 2005, 05:36:14 PM »
You could do without Mutation on your Termie AC, and perhaps without all those Lightning Claws (oh yeah, I forgot to suggest giving them 1-2 Chainfists each, also, preferably on the AC for the unit with an AC so that you get more attacks with said CF)... Dropping Move Through Cover garners a few points... The only other way I could think of getting points would be to remodel the Lord entirely, but I think the Lord's pretty cool and fitting, so I'll just leave him alone.

Alternatively, instead of dropping all the stuff I said above, you just use the Plasma points to get 3 Chainfists  (1 for second unit on the AC, 2 for retinue).

Offline -Makenshi-

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Re: 2k Iron Warriors Rules (All Infantry)
« Reply #25 on: June 9, 2005, 05:49:42 PM »
The AC already has mutation doesn't he?

EDIT- Yup, D strength and mutation.

Also I'm not fodn of mixing the chainfist (anti-tank) with L claws (anti-troop)....

~MTWC
Quote from: IainC
Because spamming the hotkey for a Deathknight's weapon in WoW is precisely the same as learning to use a sword in real life. That's why when Kendo grandmasters fight, they just stand there shouting keystroke combos at each other.

Offline CD

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Re: 2k Iron Warriors Rules (All Infantry)
« Reply #26 on: June 9, 2005, 06:47:26 PM »
The reason World Eaters players give their ACs Powerfists and lots of attacks is because they can't be picked out and can deal with big threats.

Chainfists are even better than Powerfists for taking out big threats, and you wouldn't want your Termies destroyed by some sneaky Wraithlords, would you? Sure, they're not anti-heavy infantry like Lightning Claws are, but they can't be picked out, so it makes little difference for the added insurance.

My comment about Mutation on the champ was to drop it for more points to get other Aspiring Champions, but it'll just cost way too much to take that route, since you need to arm them and all too. I then retracted my suggestion to drop it, since it's fine as is (now all I'm concerned about is this Plasma-Chainfist exchange).

Offline -Makenshi-

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Re: 2k Iron Warriors Rules (All Infantry)
« Reply #27 on: June 9, 2005, 07:08:50 PM »
Ok, here's the revised list:

2k[/b]

HQ[/b]
Chaos Lord
Kai Gun
Terminator Armour
Lightning Claw
Daemonic Strength
Bionics (This is pretty much mandatory, since I'm using the IW rules ;))
=150pts

HQ=150pts

E[/b]
4 Chosen Terminators
2 Lightning Claws
1 Reaper Autocannon
1 Chainfist
Aspiring Champ w/ Chainfist & Daemonic Strength
=205pts

5 Chosen Terminators
4 Lightning Claws
1 Combi-Flamer
1 Reaper Autocannon
Aspiring Champion w/ Daemonic Strength, Mutation & Chainfist
=258pts

(x2) Obliterator
=140pts (70/Obliterator)

E=584pts

T[/b]
(x2) 8 Chaos Space Marines
Infiltrate
Move Through Cover
2 Plasma Guns
=328pts (164/Unit)

(x3) 8 Chaos Space Marines
Infiltrate
Missile Launcher
=438pts (146/Unit)

T=766pts

HS[/b]
(x2) 8 Havocs
Infiltrate
Tank Hunters
4 Missile Launchers
=480pts (240/Unit)

HS=480pts

Total=1999pts

Model Count

Terminator Armour (Inc. Oblits.)=12

Power Armour=56

Total=78

Opinions? I have 11 points to spare, any suggestions on what to do with it?

~MTWC
« Last Edit: June 9, 2005, 07:47:21 PM by Makenshi, The White Cloud »
Quote from: IainC
Because spamming the hotkey for a Deathknight's weapon in WoW is precisely the same as learning to use a sword in real life. That's why when Kendo grandmasters fight, they just stand there shouting keystroke combos at each other.

Offline CD

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Re: 2k Iron Warriors Rules (All Infantry)
« Reply #28 on: June 9, 2005, 07:25:46 PM »
Spiky Bits on the Lord couldn't hurt, nor could Mutation on the first AC, nor could Strength on the first AC. With your lack of non-terminator characters though, you can't take frag grenades to boost it up to 2000. Ah well.

Offline -Makenshi-

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Re: 2k Iron Warriors Rules (All Infantry)
« Reply #29 on: June 9, 2005, 07:29:00 PM »
I've just realised, isn't D strength + a Chainfist pretty useless?

~MTWC
Quote from: IainC
Because spamming the hotkey for a Deathknight's weapon in WoW is precisely the same as learning to use a sword in real life. That's why when Kendo grandmasters fight, they just stand there shouting keystroke combos at each other.

Offline CD

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Re: 2k Iron Warriors Rules (All Infantry)
« Reply #30 on: June 9, 2005, 07:30:20 PM »
Wraithlords. Big Nids. It's very useful.

Offline -Makenshi-

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Re: 2k Iron Warriors Rules (All Infantry)
« Reply #31 on: June 9, 2005, 07:32:15 PM »
How about giving the AC Strength (mutation is pointless, got another one with a Chainfist to get extra hits) and the Lord Visage?

~MTWC
Quote from: IainC
Because spamming the hotkey for a Deathknight's weapon in WoW is precisely the same as learning to use a sword in real life. That's why when Kendo grandmasters fight, they just stand there shouting keystroke combos at each other.

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Re: 2k Iron Warriors Rules (All Infantry)
« Reply #32 on: June 9, 2005, 07:39:34 PM »
Visage isn't really a big deal (especially with Termies, since you can't pursue and suchlike), but Strength on the champ is always a plus.

How about D Strength and a Combi-Flamer for one of the Termies? Some added spice and effectiveness against hordes who would normally overwhelm your Termies, as well as simpler modelling if you use Chaos Termie bits, since they come with many unnecessary combi-weapons.

Offline -Makenshi-

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Re: 2k Iron Warriors Rules (All Infantry)
« Reply #33 on: June 9, 2005, 07:47:41 PM »
Ok then, added those in, it's at 1999, any other comments?

~MTWC
Quote from: IainC
Because spamming the hotkey for a Deathknight's weapon in WoW is precisely the same as learning to use a sword in real life. That's why when Kendo grandmasters fight, they just stand there shouting keystroke combos at each other.

Offline ninjaLad

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Re: 2k Iron Warriors Rules (All Infantry)
« Reply #34 on: June 25, 2005, 05:16:23 AM »
Hey whats up. This is my first army critique so bare with:

HQ[/b]
Chaos Lord
Kai Gun
Terminator Armour
Lightning Claw
Daemonic Strength
Bionics (This is pretty much mandatory, since I'm using the IW rules )
=150pts

I think the Kai gun is a ridiculous weapon and can't imagine why anyone would ever consider using it, no offense.  ;)
Use your lord as a key counter assault piece instead, because he will be twice as useful in that capacity..

Give him a weapon like the dark blade (since he aint a prince, he could use the extra str)

Here is my Lord for IW:
Lord,
daemonic str,
daemonic mutation,
dark blade,
furious charge,
spiky bitz..

140pts

The only reason I gave him the bitz is because I cry every time one of his ~6~ juicy str ~8~ attacks on the charge misses.. hes init 6 on the charge so he'll strike first over other lords/HQ, auto kill them with his str 8 and wound tyranid monsterous creature/deamons/other toughness 6 amphetamine parrot on a 2.. that's the sweet spot. Don't even ask me what he'll do to space marines/chaos marines/ terms/ necrons/bikes/ other allegedly heavily armoured enemies in hth.. You can't ask for more than that from a man sized HQ. Plus he's ten points cheaper, can't be picked out etc.... lose the bitz and maybe go with the aura (or whatever gives the inv save) for a little defense. Most important tho - don't get too attached to him. Keep him light and focus on shooting your enemy. Hes only there in case things get nasty, and because you ~have~ to take him 8)

E[/b]
4 Chosen Terminators
2 Lightning Claws
1 Reaper Autocannon
1 Chainfist
Aspiring Champ w/ Chainfist & Daemonic Strength
=205pt

I think terminators are too expensive.. chaos ones are more reasonable than SM ones - but only play em if you think they look cool or you like their fluff. for effectiveness, go with obliterators.. they are a little worse than they were before because they can be insta killed with str 8 weapons now, but who cares.. still awesome. at 140 for a squad of 2 they are much cheaper than the terms as well. personally i'd go with 3 squads of 2.. they are just THAT bad ass - especially since you aint got no tanks (more on that later).

T[/b]
(x2) 8 Chaos Space Marines
Infiltrate
Move Through Cover
2 Plasma Guns
=328pts (164/Unit)

I love squads of 8 so good call - not maxed out but still meaty to take some punishment - plus they come 8 to a box.. w00t! i'd equip em with 1 plas, 1 las cannon tho.. csm get lascannons for 15 points each.. a mere 5 more than the plas.. that's a good deal unless you are planning on having your men run around ~all~ the time.. which if you are i'd have to say go alpha legion as others suggested.. seems more in character. AND check this out - if you give each squad a champ with power fist/pistol and demonic mutation, thats some awesome counter assault.. with the new assault rules champions cant be picked out, meaning they gotta kill through 7 other marines to fish out the champ.. so when fighting a tyranid monster, wraithlord, even dreadnought, your champ can wail away 4 times at str 8 while those guys kill 1 or 2 regular marines per round.. (Example: SM dreadnought - 2 att.. hits once, kills one marine.. your champion will be done with it before he kills 3.. carnifex w/ 4 attacks - hits twice at WS 4, say wounds twice at str 10, costs to you 30pts. your champ retaliates, hitting twice, wounding once. four rounds of that and the carnifex will be killed and your squad doesnt even need counter assault backup. thats some cost effective hth. plus, what carnifex is going to make it all the way to your army unwounded.. none, thats how many.. you'll have too much lascannonage and plasma gunage my friend 8)

(x3) 8 Chaos Space Marines
Infiltrate
Missile Launcher
=438pts (146/Unit)

cool but the infiltrate is too expensive in my book, especially because they wont get to use it about 1/3 of the time (missions that dont use the rule) if your opponent has some hidden junk behind a forest, deepstrike your oblits if they can. otherwise save the points (72 goes a long way) Also - why missile launchers? i can't stand em! a lascannon has twice the chance of effecting someones armour 14 tank, while a missle launcher has no chance of penetrating it... bad news. the only reason to take them is for the frag alternative rounds - which lets face it, aint even that good at killing troops any how. About 1/3 of the armies out there roll with spacemarine armour saves (be they SM, CSM, Necrons, Eldar aspect etc.. ) SM armour is THE armour to beat (thats why plasma is so great.) the frag shot will only hit say 4-5 man sized dudes (and that's generous unless your opponent is a chuckle head and has his men piled on top of each other) So, lets say it hits .66 of the time, wounds .5 of the time (against marine types) and gets past armour .33 of the time. multiply that by the 5 guys you hit - again, that's really conservative - and you get .50 space marines dead per shot. take a single las cannon shot: hits .66, wounds .84, no armour save, and that's .54 dead per shot. The lascannon turns out to be a better anti marine gun than the blast marker! now, I can already hear you all saying that with the marker you COULD kill more marines, and it certainly is more effective against other inf types (genestealers, orks, hormagaunts, guard, etc.) But, bolters will do the same thing.. and that is what everyone else in the entire army is armed with. *catches breath* good times. 8)

HS[/b]
(x2) 8 Havocs
Infiltrate
Tank Hunters
4 Missile Launchers
=480pts (240/Unit)

I would highly discourage havac squads because they pay premium costs for their weapons, (for the privilege of having more per squad) and can no longer hide behind your other squads. I know you are avoiding tanks, but that wont stop your opponent from dropping a battle cannon/ particle whip/ demolisher cannon etc. shot right on your really expensive havocs first chance he or shes gets. and since they are armed with missile launchers, they can only pen a Leman Russ battle tank on a 6, or glance a monolith on a 6 - so good luck stopping them. Too many points tied up in one place - at least split the squad into two.

Now, bare in mind that all of my review has been written from the point of view of an admitted tactical player (aka power gamer). I like crushing people with iron warriors. I do other things for flavor. I mean, Im a nice guy, play friendly, don't complain when I lose, and LOVE seeing other peoples takes and perspectives on their own armies. It's a great game for flavor, competition, painting - all of the things we have come to know and love about it. But, that still doesn't stop people from tanking my sportsmanship score (of course).

And you know, I never really faulted anyone for that because I really do consider myself a good sport. But at the 2003 seatle GT, I watched an eldar player give my friend a bad sportsmanship score because my friend  was playing with 2 wraithlords - and wraithlords are "cheese". Well, my friend ~could~ have played with 3, but didn't. And my friends opponent was playing an all dire avenger army with a bunch of wave serpents.. Of course he got his ass kicked! I have full respect to awesomely painted, or awesomely conceived armies (full of flavor) but Jesus don't complain when someone beats you in a tournament with a tactical army. i mean c'mon, ~all~ dire avengers? who the hell did he expect to beat? props for flavor, but to hell with that guy's sportsmanship. People who construct armies for flavor often complain about other so called "cheese" armies. But the ~first~ sign of bad sportsman is complaining about a lost game.

As a side note, I now try to make sure my victory score + painting scores are so high my low sportsmanship score don't matter for amphetamine parrot. JK..... sort of 8)

Anyhoo, over all, nifty army. It's noble that you are trying to go tankless.. I love armies that purposefully handicap themselves, be it because they want to try a new angle or win with a different army list than all of the other players use. But ultimately I think you guys came down too hard on that one dude (whom I can't be bothered to scroll back and check his name). Tanks would make the army more winnier, granted, and I know that isn't what you are looking for - but check this out: two of the IW special rules are tank oriented: a.) they can have 1 more heavy support (of which there are six armour selections and only one infantry selection) and b.) IW are allowed to include two bonus tanks that no other CSM army can have. Plus the servo arm can, like, fix tanks n' sheeit. Seems pretty evident from their special entries that tanks play a pretty large roll in the army for the most part. Of course, before you cry out, "that doesn't mean they MUST include them" I know it doesn't. But to argue that the fluff doesnt at least ~suggest~ using more tanks, is just nonsense.

So please, It's late - I usually never respond to posts so I humbly apologize if I swept over something that has already been said in the topic that I missed. And by all means let me know what you all think of all this stuff. I love Warhammer, and I love discussing it.

Peace,
ninjaLad

PS. To the guys that said tanks die in like the first/second round: If your basilisk is getting blown up that often - try having it not lead your army into battle 8) Put it behind a forest or mountain range in the back. A good 33% of the games I play, my basilisk never gets destroyed at all. And let me tell you: at a trim 150 pts. it sure blows a LOT of amphetamine parrot up (tanks, infantry equally - the beauty of ordinance). I'll see you tankless wonders at the next rogue trader/ gt 8)



Offline -Makenshi-

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Re: 2k Iron Warriors Rules (All Infantry)
« Reply #35 on: June 25, 2005, 09:07:32 AM »
I think the Kai gun is a ridiculous weapon and can't imagine why anyone would ever consider using it, no offense.  ;)
Use your lord as a key counter assault piece instead, because he will be twice as useful in that capacity..

Give him a weapon like the dark blade (since he aint a prince, he could use the extra str)

The Kai Gun is more for fluffy reasons, also I deliberately avoided making a CC monster Lord, wasn't inkeeping with the fluff I've thought up (may start posting it soon).

Although I see where you're coming from I'm the kind of guy who winning comes second to themes ;).

E[/b]
4 Chosen Terminators
2 Lightning Claws
1 Reaper Autocannon
1 Chainfist
Aspiring Champ w/ Chainfist & Daemonic Strength
=205pt

I think terminators are too expensive.. chaos ones are more reasonable than SM ones - but only play em if you think they look cool or you like their fluff. for effectiveness, go with obliterators.. they are a little worse than they were before because they can be insta killed with str 8 weapons now, but who cares.. still awesome. at 140 for a squad of 2 they are much cheaper than the terms as well. personally i'd go with 3 squads of 2.. they are just THAT bad ass - especially since you aint got no tanks (more on that later).

Oblits can't do what these guys are for, countercharging. I was going to go with possesed for it but chosen come cheaper (FoC wise) and don't mess with my other chocies, they can also dish out firepower too.

T[/b]
(x2) 8 Chaos Space Marines
Infiltrate
Move Through Cover
2 Plasma Guns
=328pts (164/Unit)

I love squads of 8 so good call - not maxed out but still meaty to take some punishment - plus they come 8 to a box.. w00t! i'd equip em with 1 plas, 1 las cannon tho.. csm get lascannons for 15 points each.. a mere 5 more than the plas.. that's a good deal unless you are planning on having your men run around ~all~ the time.. which if you are i'd have to say go alpha legion as others suggested.. seems more in character. AND check this out - if you give each squad a champ with power fist/pistol and demonic mutation, thats some awesome counter assault.. with the new assault rules champions cant be picked out, meaning they gotta kill through 7 other marines to fish out the champ.. so when fighting a tyranid monster, wraithlord, even dreadnought, your champ can wail away 4 times at str 8 while those guys kill 1 or 2 regular marines per round.. (Example: SM dreadnought - 2 att.. hits once, kills one marine.. your champion will be done with it before he kills 3.. carnifex w/ 4 attacks - hits twice at WS 4, say wounds twice at str 10, costs to you 30pts. your champ retaliates, hitting twice, wounding once. four rounds of that and the carnifex will be killed and your squad doesnt even need counter assault backup. thats some cost effective hth. plus, what carnifex is going to make it all the way to your army unwounded.. none, thats how many.. you'll have too much lascannonage and plasma gunage my friend 8)

I'd rather keep these guys as mobile firepower, I have static firepower elsewhere that can dish out damage, these guys are support to my static firepower, they're supposed to either gun down those that get too close or be sacrificial lambs to the slaughter.

(x3) 8 Chaos Space Marines
Infiltrate
Missile Launcher
=438pts (146/Unit)

cool but the infiltrate is too expensive in my book, especially because they wont get to use it about 1/3 of the time (missions that dont use the rule) if your opponent has some hidden junk behind a forest, deepstrike your oblits if they can. otherwise save the points (72 goes a long way) Also - why missile launchers? i can't stand em! a lascannon has twice the chance of effecting someones armour 14 tank, while a missle launcher has no chance of penetrating it... bad news. the only reason to take them is for the frag alternative rounds - which lets face it, aint even that good at killing troops any how. About 1/3 of the armies out there roll with spacemarine armour saves (be they SM, CSM, Necrons, Eldar aspect etc.. ) SM armour is THE armour to beat (thats why plasma is so great.) the frag shot will only hit say 4-5 man sized dudes (and that's generous unless your opponent is a chuckle head and has his men piled on top of each other) So, lets say it hits .66 of the time, wounds .5 of the time (against marine types) and gets past armour .33 of the time. multiply that by the 5 guys you hit - again, that's really conservative - and you get .50 space marines dead per shot. take a single las cannon shot: hits .66, wounds .84, no armour save, and that's .54 dead per shot. The lascannon turns out to be a better anti marine gun than the blast marker! now, I can already hear you all saying that with the marker you COULD kill more marines, and it certainly is more effective against other inf types (genestealers, orks, hormagaunts, guard, etc.) But, bolters will do the same thing.. and that is what everyone else in the entire army is armed with. *catches breath* good times. 8)

Missile Launchers are versatile, that's why I go for them, these small squads arn't the heavy Tank Hunters, that's the Devvies. Also I prefer Missile Launchers to Lascannons, always have.

About Infiltrate, I agree with you on your point, except to me it makes little difference to shooty armies, I take Infiltrate not to get as close as possible to my enemy, but to allow myself a lot of freedom and tactical opportunities to deploy, if I don't get it it isn't a big blow, I can still do well.

HS[/b]
(x2) 8 Havocs
Infiltrate
Tank Hunters
4 Missile Launchers
=480pts (240/Unit)

I would highly discourage havac squads because they pay premium costs for their weapons, (for the privilege of having more per squad) and can no longer hide behind your other squads. I know you are avoiding tanks, but that wont stop your opponent from dropping a battle cannon/ particle whip/ demolisher cannon etc. shot right on your really expensive havocs first chance he or shes gets. and since they are armed with missile launchers, they can only pen a Leman Russ battle tank on a 6, or glance a monolith on a 6 - so good luck stopping them. Too many points tied up in one place - at least split the squad into two.

So? Lascannons can only penetrate a Russ on a 6. The aforementioned Ordanance is fairly rare in large amounts (except in special cases e.g. Armoured Company) and Lith's need to get very close to use it.

I also find Havocs more survivable than most Heavy Support, they have to kill 5 CSM to even start denting my firepower.


Anyhoo, over all, nifty army. It's noble that you are trying to go tankless.. I love armies that purposefully handicap themselves, be it because they want to try a new angle or win with a different army list than all of the other players use. But ultimately I think you guys came down too hard on that one dude (whom I can't be bothered to scroll back and check his name). Tanks would make the army more winnier, granted, and I know that isn't what you are looking for - but check this out: two of the IW special rules are tank oriented: a.) they can have 1 more heavy support (of which there are six armour selections and only one infantry selection) and b.) IW are allowed to include two bonus tanks that no other CSM army can have. Plus the servo arm can, like, fix tanks n' sheeit. Seems pretty evident from their special entries that tanks play a pretty large roll in the army for the most part. Of course, before you cry out, "that doesn't mean they MUST include them" I know it doesn't. But to argue that the fluff doesnt at least ~suggest~ using more tanks, is just nonsense.

Well the previous person did get a bit OTT and wouldn't stop even after I had told people I was fed up with defending my decision on IW.

I'm aware IW do better with tanks, but I thought up this as a challenge and new thing, it was laos inspired by my SMurf Chapter the Clandestine Guard, who can dish out even more firepower but don't have much in the way of counter-attacking (well the ][ list does, the none ][ list doesn't). If you're interested you can find their fluff Here and the mose up to date army lists Here (Non-][ List) and Here (][ List with Vindicaire Assassin ;D).

Anyway, thanks for your input ;D.

~MTWC
« Last Edit: June 25, 2005, 09:14:34 AM by Makenshi (Is On Sporadically) »
Quote from: IainC
Because spamming the hotkey for a Deathknight's weapon in WoW is precisely the same as learning to use a sword in real life. That's why when Kendo grandmasters fight, they just stand there shouting keystroke combos at each other.

 


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