News: No news is good news...

Login  |  Register

Author Topic: Two vibro cannons or one Falcon?  (Read 2574 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Eldar Revenant

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 68
  • "Told ya so!!" Eldrad Uthran to the Emperor
Two vibro cannons or one Falcon?
« on: May 30, 2005, 12:26:57 PM »
Hello everyone, I was wondering about the viablility of vibro-cannons. I have'nt seen any topics either praising or boo-ing them. Whats your guys opinion on them, and whether or not i should get a single falcon or a two vibrocannons first in an army like this:

20 guardians
2 farseers
2 worlocks
10 striking scorpions
6 rangers

Forgive me as i dont have full listing for theyre additional wargear as its a relatively new army still.
Thanks for your replies in advance. :)
Nothing is impossible, only improbable.

Offline The_Outcast

  • Infinity Circuit
  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1567
  • Country: us
  • I am the only one who left willingly.
Re: Two vibro cannons or one Falcon?
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2005, 12:35:43 PM »
A falcon. As you will find that against anything but vehicles the falcon will always cause more damage. Even against vehicles Gte the side armour and they are pretty much toast. only vibocannon is really good against monliths and land raiders.

The_Outcast

Offline Samurai

  • Most Honorable Warrior
  • Ancient
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5367
Re: Two vibro cannons or one Falcon?
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2005, 01:25:00 PM »
The support weapon platforsm (Vibrocannons, D-cannons etc), are one of the least useful units available to the Eldar.

Offline Eldar Revenant

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 68
  • "Told ya so!!" Eldrad Uthran to the Emperor
Re: Two vibro cannons or one Falcon?
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2005, 01:34:44 PM »
Wow, didnt know support platforms were that bad...thanks for the info.
Nothing is impossible, only improbable.

Offline Lockmaster

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 711
  • For England!!
Re: Two vibro cannons or one Falcon?
« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2005, 01:49:48 PM »
Yep, they die by one squad of bolters, the only 'useful' weapon battery are d-cannons in small games as they are barrage, and they are also good for capturing table quaters/creating a 'no go' area for the enemy.
Knowledge is knowing tomato is a fruit, wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad.

Offline Phoenixs Wrath

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 167
  • He reminds me of me...
Re: Two vibro cannons or one Falcon?
« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2005, 02:09:26 PM »
  I don't think they're particularly BAD, just tactically inflexible and very fragile. They do have some VERY powerful weapons though. I personally wouldn't take them, but that's partially just because the Eldar have an amazing HS section.
You must be some kind of idiot. Hehehe! Everyone laugh at the idiot!!!



Damn you Phoenixs Wrath...

Offline Roy

  • Infinity Circuit - Harbinger of the Dark Millenium
  • Ancient
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4700
  • Country: no
Re: Two vibro cannons or one Falcon?
« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2005, 02:45:13 PM »
Falcon is my number one Heavy Support choice any day. I take it before I take a Wraithlord. If I absolutely insisted on having platforms, I'd go with D-Cannons.

Offline Eldar Revenant

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 68
  • "Told ya so!!" Eldrad Uthran to the Emperor
Re: Two vibro cannons or one Falcon?
« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2005, 07:30:32 PM »
Cool, thanks for the information guys  :).
Nothing is impossible, only improbable.

Offline darkphoenix_64

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 144
  • I'm a llaminator!
Re: Two vibro cannons or one Falcon?
« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2005, 06:24:29 AM »
Woah, hang on a second.  They're not all that bad.

OK, I agree the vibro is hard to use, as you have to expose yourself.  But if you get that shot off, that's potentially a lot of dead guys!  Especially now that you can't shield units!
D-Cannons are great for area denial.

But the undiscovered gem I have found is the overlooked cheap Shadow Weaver.  For a mere <less than 50> points, you get a 48" guess range warp spider blast.  Sure, most people are put off by no AP.  So why does anyone use warp spiders?
The high strength means you can wound just about anything, plus if it scatters onto a tank you have a chance of hurting it.  You can never be seen by the opposition, and hence can hold your table quater with impunity.  Occasionally, you may even pin a unit.  With two, its gets even better.  I've lost count of the numer of smurfs that have died to this humble weapon, and have subsequently been pinned. 

Offline Ashman

  • Fear of Bovines. | Cool title here until Devern thinks of something better
  • Lazerous Penguin
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1741
  • Country: 00
Re: Two vibro cannons or one Falcon?
« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2005, 08:28:52 AM »
I dislike anyone who claims that support weapons are useless. It jsut depends which army you field them against.
I've loved vibro cannons ever since I tried them out. First turn, scored a hit on a defiler, and rolled...a six! Needless to say, my opponenent was not best pleased.

They all have their uses. All round, the D-cannon is best IMO.

Offline small_furry_spider

  • Council Warlock
  • Lazerous Penguin
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2009
  • Country: gb
    • www.small.furryspider.com
Re: Two vibro cannons or one Falcon?
« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2005, 08:41:42 AM »
The main problem with the vibro cannon is that it is [not] direct fire. This means that if it will be a serious danger to your opponents army he can target it in the first turn. As it is of most use against vehicles a sensible player will not put them in LOS for turn 1. If he does not have tough vehicle targets it will probably not be that effective for the points (it will only hit half the time and the strength is terrible). Add to this, it is far too expensive for what it does.

The shadow weaver is not bad. I personally do not use one as I mainly face T4 3+ armies but it certainly has merits.

The D-cannon is really rather good, only being let down by its low range. However, within that range it is devastating. Very good at protecting your firebase from deepstriking troops and vehicles full of troops (max strength and ordonance damage chart anyone?), or as an area denial weapon (recon anyone :) ).

However, they are not really worth taking compared to the falcon. This is probably the best tank in 40K, very hard to kill, carries troops and has multiple high strength weapons systems.

Corrected a small typo that would have lead to major confusion to some.  -Mr.Peanut
« Last Edit: May 31, 2005, 11:04:22 AM by Mr.Peanut »

Offline Eldar Revenant

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 68
  • "Told ya so!!" Eldrad Uthran to the Emperor
Re: Two vibro cannons or one Falcon?
« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2005, 08:49:05 AM »
Ah, so we see the other side. I appreciate the information guys. Ill definitely look into those shadow weavers.
Nothing is impossible, only improbable.

Offline Lockmaster

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 711
  • For England!!
Re: Two vibro cannons or one Falcon?
« Reply #12 on: May 31, 2005, 02:25:12 PM »
Note: The vibro cannon cannot move and fire, therefore, the enemy will almost always get 1 turn of shooting in before it fires=splat, at least against the people i play against, virbo cannons don't last a second.
Knowledge is knowing tomato is a fruit, wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad.

Offline The_Outcast

  • Infinity Circuit
  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1567
  • Country: us
  • I am the only one who left willingly.
Re: Two vibro cannons or one Falcon?
« Reply #13 on: May 31, 2005, 02:33:54 PM »
I thought about using shadow weaver but I don't have the models. You can use support weapons but they are a little overpriced IMO. They hard to use. But a falcon is almost always the better choice against basically anything.

The_Outcast

Offline Newton

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 103
Re: Two vibro cannons or one Falcon?
« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2005, 03:38:16 PM »
I've messed around with them a little bit, but compared to the other Heavy Support choices Eldar lists have, the platforms are the weakest in my opinion.

When you compare them to Falcons, you have no where near the survivability, nearly the same firepower (Pulse Laser + Star Cannon + Shuriken Cannon if you're feeling like it, can easily rival the destructive power of one to two blasts of a D Cannon), have a much better range and mobility.

When you compare them to Dark Reapers, the Reapers have MUCH more shots, more accurate balistic Skill, and even have a better save, and while not as powerful, have really good AP, and twice the range of a D-Cannon. (And when someone says that Reapers have a higher survivability...wel l thats saying something....)

When you compare it to a Wraithlord, you have a MUCH sturdier, mobile fire base to put a weapon on, that can hold it's own in close combat, and can't be killed off by a random squad of guys with Bolters...

When compared to a Fire Prism, you have a much farther range to work with, and a much more mobile AND survivable fire base. 

When you compare it to the platforms that join Guardian Defender squads, the crew can at least hide in the squad, meaning that it takes concentrated fire to take the pesky things out, with only two crew on the Heavy platform, and maybe a Warlock, you aren't looking at much, also, if you brought a single platform, killing a single troop now requires a leadership test...

In your choice between a Falcon and a Platform, I would probably suggest the Falcon, as you can also hide a small squad of Fire Dragons or Storm Guardians (With Flamers, & Destructor for mass troop hunting, or Haywires, Fusion Guns and a Singing Spear for tanking busting) in it (Depending on flavor preference) to fill small holes in your army and do some battle line patching.

- Newton

Offline Eldar Revenant

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 68
  • "Told ya so!!" Eldrad Uthran to the Emperor
Re: Two vibro cannons or one Falcon?
« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2005, 10:47:54 PM »
Wow, nice analysis. Thanks.
Nothing is impossible, only improbable.

Offline TheHarbinger

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 6
  • I *Love* EldarOnline!
Re: Two vibro cannons or one Falcon?
« Reply #16 on: June 1, 2005, 10:04:37 AM »
The vibro cannon also has benefits if you fighting a close combat orientated swarm army eg many gaunts with sycthing talons as it has the potential to hit many squads assuming that you pick your target correctly. Now the tyranid player i regulary fight takes mine out pretty soon and before bigger targets like the reapers.

Offline Lockmaster

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 711
  • For England!!
Re: Two vibro cannons or one Falcon?
« Reply #17 on: June 1, 2005, 10:08:10 AM »
But agaisnt nids they also sucks, because of the crappy 'synapse fearless' bull.
Knowledge is knowing tomato is a fruit, wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad.

Offline aisoran

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12
  • Fortes Fortuna Juvat
Re: Two vibro cannons or one Falcon?
« Reply #18 on: June 3, 2005, 04:16:00 AM »
I use supportweapons from time to time because they have thier merrit, but also because of the same reasons i choose to field a Wraithlord, namely phycic warfare. I see many people crunching numbers and elevating this unit and condemming that unit. But consider the "hated enemy" who is very human and does have the memory of an elephant, when it comes to grievious looses in the past. My favorite support weapon is the Vibro, not because its not overpriced but because my foes hate and fear them to the extent that i can limit thier troop movements by fielding a vibrobat on the right place(you only have to see the targetpoint, and ALL units in LOF will be hit)

As with the Wraithlord my honored enemys tend to either awoid it, enabeling it to domite a piece of the field, or expend redicilously much attention on destroying it, making the field safer for other units for the time beeing.

All units have thier usefullness, but it can not allways be calculated in numbers.

If you love something, set it free. If it does not come back, hunt it down and kill it

Offline Sein-Creis

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 283
    • Sandviken Clan Wars
Re: Two vibro cannons or one Falcon?
« Reply #19 on: June 5, 2005, 05:26:07 AM »
I am not kinding you guys when i say the Vibro cannon is one of the most under-estimated unit in the game. In a squad of 3 you have virtually infinite str6 shots upto 36" away, as well as 3 glancing hits per turn against ANY vehicle.

And you guys are really worried about them being in the open to use them? I put them behind cover with a firing line going off the side of the board. The second time i used them (the 1st was not a fun thing to watch) i took out apprx 35+ models, including 2 chrimea, 3 of 4 Ogryn, the rest were all infantry.

I've never taken that many since then (mainly cause of the lucky way they were lined up) but i havent played IG since then either.

Im not trying to say they are better than the *ALL HAIL* all mighty Falcon, but htey are DEFINATELY worth considering for a heavy slot. Specially if your apponant screams CHEESE! if you field 3 falcons :S

thats my 2 cents
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <)  Long live the revolution!
give me your brains

2000 pts Tau Se'cra'te

 


Powered by EzPortal