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Offline cdtpullem

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Re: Raptors Army Commission WIP blog
« Reply #40 on: February 15, 2008, 12:38:07 AM »
I want to start off by saying I don't really want to write this, but I feel like I have no choice. I hired deathklok, who formally went by nurgleboy77 on December 7th to paint a number of models for me. I paid him, and over the course of the last two months gave him several more models. The total ended up being two squads of 7, a vindicator, touch up of a squad of terminators, a shrike model, a dreadnought, several other models to have their faces painted up, several landspeeders (most just to be touched up), and six rhino variants to be touched up. In short, it has cost me 1,948 dollars for his painting service.To date all he has had to show for the last 70 days is what has been posted on this website, and several of those models were already painted before he got them!

Regardless, I have found this unacceptable and have as recently as three weeks ago asked him to give me weekly updates, as I was unhappy with the progress of the project and still am. He has since decided to ignore my requests and inquiries for the most part. Finally I had enough and told him I wanted him to send me back the models and refund me what he hadn't painted or I would take legal action, I still got no response. It wasn't until I finally set up a dispute on paypal that he contacted me asking me to resolve the disputes. He also gave me his phone number, saying that if I got this upset again to please call him. I called last week and of course when I spoke to him he promised me an update (that was last week, still no update, and it's Friday of the next week). He made it seem like the reason that he had not made any progress on my commission was that he had been busy, he also sited that he had received an even larger commission and that now apparently took precedence. I had given him my commission first, I feel that mine should be completed first, regardless of the order it was received, or the amount of money involved.

I also do not like being ignored, you'd think for 2 grand that I would get what I wanted in terms of service and communication at the very least. I have done nothing but praise his painting skill positively on the site so far, but I feel like he has abused me as a customer. He ignores my emails, and as of today has ignored my calls. Heck, I have even messaged him using this site, as he is a regular poster here, but still I get no reply or response. You'd think he could at least listen to his client's requests instead of ignoring my emails for almost a month. So I am writing this as a warning to other potential customers, he advertises that commissions are welcome on this site. I don't want this to happen to other hobbyists like myself, who enjoy the hobby but can't paint that well. I sent him a copy of this before posting it so he could maybe respond to my concerns, he had replied with an apology and the promise of a post (again two weeks ago now) but has since gone back to ignoring me and not delivering on his promises.

I welcome his response and any others that may have concerns and would ask that this website kindly ask him to remove his painting service advertisement in his profile if this is not resolved. I will gladly forward all of my communications I have had with him to current clients so they can see what has happened to me. I don't even trust him not to delete this post, and if that happens I will post this elsewhere with a warning. I am seriously considering reporting him to the better business bureau, and have called him asking him to refund me for the painting services on the models he has yet to paint, and also to send me the models he has painted and has not painted. Again he has had 70 some days for this commission and has had infrequent communication with me, but otherwise from what he has shown on the website he is a good painter. He has told me he is not trying to con or scam me, but at this point that is EXACTLLY how I feel. Hopefully this situation is resolved and i get my money back.

The straw that broke the camel's back was tonight. I had called him tonight twice, after seeing him online twice during the evening for more then a half hour each time. I had sent him a message asking him if it was ok to call, to which I got no response. This is after I called earlier in the afternoon today requesting he call me back, which is after a month of being ignored. I cannot afford to part with 2,000 dollars and not have what I payed for, it is extremely upsetting and frustrating, as well as infuriating to be toyed with like this. 
« Last Edit: February 15, 2008, 03:01:20 AM by cdtpullem »

Offline Heretek

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Re: Raptors Army Commission WIP blog
« Reply #41 on: February 15, 2008, 03:12:53 AM »
I originally sent this to CDT as a pm, but he requested that I post it here as well.

I was considering commissioning Nurgleboy for some conversion work, but your post has made me think twice. I've since found someone in my own country who seems to have reasonable prices. I'd just like to thank you for taking the time to warn us.

Offline cdtpullem

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Re: Raptors Army Commission WIP blog
« Reply #42 on: February 15, 2008, 02:51:00 PM »
I was contacted by deathklok this morning and asked to give him one more week as a last chance sort of thing before I get refunded. He told me again he would post something this afternoon. I'm looking forward to the post. If I am refunded or my commission is completed I will gladly retract my earlier statements made on this forum and vouch for him, not only as an escellent artist, but also as a business man.

Offline DJ-of-E

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Re: Raptors Army Commission WIP blog
« Reply #43 on: February 15, 2008, 02:56:08 PM »
To be honest CDTPULLEM, that's a lot of work to do in 70 days ^_^;;

It's hard to find a reputable commissioner, though.  When the orks had their new edition codex and GW had their trade-a-thon, my friend traded his newly-box bikers for 30 okay painted orks.  One problem was that the 30 orks were never painted so the two agreed that this guy with the 30 orks needs to paint them.

It's 2 months later and only 15 orks has already painted.  Even worst is that he tried convince him that he would paint a warboss or some other "single" character.

To me, and you guys have already seen my pictures of my stuff, working on commission is mentally harder than it looks.  Sometimes time truly is the problem.  Does school or family emergencies can be used as an excuse for delay of paint?  And no, I don't condone those who drop a clients project over another because of better pay.  Running a commission/business is much different than resigning for another job.  Obligations has to be met first. 

It's better to work on sever smaller contracts than one large contract.  It allows flexibility.  Also, assigning estimated time of completion for each of the smaller contracts will hopefully enforce the commissioner priorities in his time.  I know every person wants to give "freedom of time" to empower creativity, but humans can definitely be lazy beings who would work for efficiency in greater rewards.  However, I do believe CDTPULLEM deserves the right for weekly progress as maintaining relations is very important to any business/commissioner.

One thing that confuses me is how do you know that he painted those models before he got them?  Maybe he was on vacation doing a painting spree?  Maybe he decides to purchase the models before-hand and work on it ahead of time (especially if I want to impress my client that I work fast).  I'm sorry if this offends you, I'm just working on what information has been given in this thread.  I do believe I'm not the only one who's confused by this scenario.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2008, 03:11:29 PM by DJ-of-E »

Offline cdtpullem

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Re: Raptors Army Commission WIP blog
« Reply #44 on: February 15, 2008, 06:52:02 PM »
DJ-OF_E, I apologize for the confusion. When I said that some of the models were already painted, I meant specifically that some models came directly from my pre existing army and were already painted to a fairly high standard when I had mailed them to deathklok to be touched up. I.E. the faces on some and various detailing on the others were to be fixed, but the overall painting of the model was already done. As an example, the terminators and tactical marines on the last post had come to him already fully painted. All he had done to them was repaint their faces. There were two new terminators that did not make the post, and on some terminators in the update he had glued some more parts on, but had not painted them. Now one of the terminators was a repair, which he did a great job fixing, but it was still also already painted. He also had applied the finishing touches to a very nice Shrike model during that update, and had started on some leftover tactical guys that I had him assemble from leftovers on the sprues. For a weekly update that would be fine, but that was not the update for the week, more like it was the update for the month. The vehicles I never expected to be done in a short period of time, however since they need to be stripped and repainted, but I have not been shown ANY progress as far as they are concerned (see my previous post).

I would be more readily accepting of his current progress if he would give weekly updates, it would be like saying no I'm not done with your commission, but cdt, here's what I did do and what do you think. I did not even tell him he had to post the updates on this site, although with the calibre of painter he is it would probably attract more business to do so. I simpley said I wanted a weekly update, with pictures of anywork done that week. When you figure that as far as I know he runs his studio as a full time business, 70 days is plenty of time. You break down a mini into man hours and you say 4-6 hours for a regular model and 8-10 hours for a more complicated paint... 70 days, if you are working a regular 8-12 hour day is 560-840 hours if I did my math right. That is honestly a lot of time that could be used, not only painting but also communicating with the client and posting any work that has been done as requested for the client to view/review.

I was also promised an update this afternoon, which has yet to materialize. I am not as worried about it now though because I was able to speak to Deathklok on the phone as he has now opened up the lines of communication (lets hope it stays that way). Perhaps finally putting the issue down in this medium, has gotten through to him. In my opinion this is something he should have done a month ago, and while I can't now say it was just dealing with me or if others have had this problem, I do know that it was extremely upsetting to spend the money and not to see the work. The fact that he is now talking to me though does show he is making an effort to reach out to his customer, which is good, but will it be to little to late. Thats up to him, I had told him I was a very loyal customer and planned on giving him future business, but at the time this did not lend itself anymore to seeing the results I wanted then any other tactic I've tried to get through to him. Artists can be a very stubborn and absorbed bunch, but the long short of it is I'm looking for a finished or semi finished product here that I can directly influence on it's way to completion and enjoy for a long time to come.

Offline cdtpullem

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Re: Raptors Army Commission WIP blog
« Reply #45 on: February 15, 2008, 10:02:56 PM »
Good stuff, so far so good. Tactical markings could be neatened up, but the other details look amazing. They look great I'm so happy this is finally getting rolling again. Thanks a lot Deathklok

Offline DJ-of-E

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Re: Raptors Army Commission WIP blog
« Reply #46 on: February 15, 2008, 10:31:48 PM »
Glad situation is over for now.  When I read CDT's post, it felt a little too off one way or another (I'm a Law major, so shoot me).  A lot of chunks were missing and it felt as though too much emotion has been placed into the post.

Deathklok is right in terms of mentality.  As I have mentioned before, painting in such high quality can be mentally demanding.  It takes drive to paint the models, and sometimes we hit dry spells.  The worst problem of all is feeling of separation after painting them.  It's kinda like giving up your baby in a retarded sort of say, but you get the picture.

Though I wish he hadn't mentioned details about his father.  Last thing I want this forum to become is be way too involved with our personal lives.


More importantly both may or may not agree with this advice, but believe email updates would be good enough.  I know, Deathklok, that you don't like communication through email, but it's a more direct form of communication than PM, especially in terms of convenience.  Calling by phone can be quite a drag as it takes two to connect.  Also, taking pictures can quite be a drag at times.  Hell, even I don't like taking pictures of unfinished works.  So just typing in text and telling a summary of the progress in a few sentences wouldn't hurt.

Lastly, I really doubt the MODs in this section of the forum would like to see posts about business.  So keep it between you two.  And no, I am not a MOD FYI.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2008, 10:34:50 PM by DJ-of-E »

Offline Mr.Squid

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Re: Raptors Army Commission WIP blog
« Reply #47 on: February 15, 2008, 11:32:56 PM »
Any thoughts on the Plasma coil colors?

Normally id say green, but since the entire army is green, I think blue would be a nice contrast. Maby ultramarines to Ice, or what ever colors you use that look like that.

Oh, and it's nice to see that ugly situation get resolved. :)

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Offline cdtpullem

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Re: Raptors Army Commission WIP blog
« Reply #48 on: February 16, 2008, 02:40:53 AM »
I like Mr. Squid's idea for the plasma weapon, blue will make a nice contrast to the green.

I noticed that Deathklok posted something in response to a post I had made.  If we are publicly dealing with this, I will publicly respond.  To read his post anyone would think I had been some overbearing jerk who hounded him day and night and got upset when my needs were not met immediately.  Now, it should be noted that he did post updates today and all in all the work was very well done.  I would just like to reiterate that I asked only for weekly updates and for him to respond to my questions.  I only got angry when my questions went unanswered, my emails unanswered, and no updates for several weeks.  I spent a lot of money and handed over a lot of my property.  Again, while he is doing very nice painting and has since posted a comprehensive update it was only after 5 or 6 of my emails were not responded to.  I actually had to initiate a pay pal dispute before he answered me.  Then still no update.  Finally I threatened to pull my comission and demand a refund. Only then did he post an update.  I am not unreasonable.  I understand that everyone has a personal life, noone is available 24-7 and they shouldn't have to be.  He reassured me time and again that updates would be posted immediately never to appear.  He claimed to be nearly finished long ago only to ignore me for nearly a month.  This all could have been avoided if a little basic professionalism had been practiced.  I endorse his painting abilities but was very angry at how I was treated.
By the way I unbderstand that this is demanding work and I'd rather it take longer than look like crap. I also understand that the illness of a parent is taxing and overwhelming for anyone.  But, if he had shot me an email saying "Sorry about this but I am having a family emergency and will be taking time off, or will need extra time for projects" I wouldn't be angry.  I was angry because I was left with no info.  it's not the time frame either.  I wouldn't mind 6 months if I was kept updated somehow, pictures or no.  Just keep the lines of communication open.

Offline Ultra Simon

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Re: Raptors Army Commission WIP blog
« Reply #49 on: February 16, 2008, 02:47:20 AM »
i liek most of it so far, but im not a fan of the chapy model (though thats not really ur fault). I only feel straight wet blending does the model justice most of the time.

Liking the colour scheme. Nice work ;)

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Offline Jehan-Reznor

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Re: Raptors Army Commission WIP blog
« Reply #50 on: February 20, 2008, 07:04:43 PM »
nice work so far i am not a big fan on the face coloring, i usually drybrush the faces, i find it that it looks more natural.

sorry for the personal issues, but a mail or a phonecall is easily done explaining the issues. not answering discontent clients is bad for business (as they tent to vent there discontent on the forums  :o)
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Offline cdtpullem

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Re: Raptors Army Commission WIP blog
« Reply #51 on: February 28, 2008, 03:08:54 AM »
The man can definitely paint that is for sure, the termies are by far my favorite part of this project so far, and I really like it all.

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Re: Raptors Army Commission WIP blog
« Reply #52 on: March 20, 2008, 07:54:30 PM »
I really really like them so far. I cant wait to see the rest of them!
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Offline cdtpullem

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Re: Raptors Army Commission WIP blog
« Reply #53 on: April 10, 2008, 04:42:28 PM »
I had previously posted that I would not reccommend deathklok's painting service to anyone. I stand by that 100 percent. It took me two weeks of calling and threatening to get him to finally give me back my property. He had hardly touched the work I gave him after six months and two thousand dollars. Message me for pictures of what he sent me, it is a nightmare. Broken plastic bits, poorly painted models, and I even paid him for some model kits he never even got for me... I have nothing to show for all that money and time. I was lucky apparently to even get my property back as he could not afford to pay to have it sent to me, or so that was the excuse he used. I would characterize his work ethic as non-existent and he swindled me out of my money and now doesn't have any plans to pay me back. Do not use his painting service!!!! The photos speak for themselves if you are curious, I'm posting this on all of his recent posts so maybe he will get the message that I am not someone to con or swindle.

Offline Jonik

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Re: Raptors Army Commission WIP blog
« Reply #54 on: April 10, 2008, 05:55:45 PM »
That is some shocking work, especially on the robes...

I'd suggest posting around other forums, and on the trading post here if you havent already.
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Re: Raptors Army Commission WIP blog
« Reply #55 on: April 11, 2008, 03:36:53 AM »
Actually, pasting that post in various threads around the forum is a bad idea, and the posts have been cleaned off. Crossposting is overall a bad idea. Use the "Good/bad"-trader alert thread in Trading. That is what it is there for.

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Offline Jonik

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Re: Raptors Army Commission WIP blog
« Reply #56 on: April 11, 2008, 05:37:28 AM »
Actually, pasting that post in various threads around the forum is a bad idea, and the posts have been cleaned off. Crossposting is overall a bad idea. Use the "Good/bad"-trader alert thread in Trading. That is what it is there for.

That's not what I said, I clearly said 'other forums'. Not our own. Apart from the trading post.
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Offline Bournstar69

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Re: Raptors Army Commission WIP blog
« Reply #57 on: April 11, 2008, 06:07:10 AM »

I'm with Squirrelloid so far as I have absolutely no idea whats going on. cdtpullem is saying two things at once, and IMHO, the models actually look really good. So ... can someone explain what the hell is happening?

I understand that it has taken Deathklok a fair while to get these models painted, but commission or no commission, your family should still come first. I don't know how many points he's painting for pullem, but if it is a whole army, upwards of 1000 pts, then 6 months is fair enough considering. It's certainly taken me almost five months to paint 1200 pts of Marines, and thats working on them almost every night and weekend. And they STILL don't look as good as these.

He had hardly touched the work I gave him ...

Erm ... they look touched to me. But then again, I dunno how long this has been going on for.


The photos speak for themselves ... 

If you mean these photos, they look excellent to me.

I wonder if this forum-wide hate campaign against Deathklok is actually at all constructive? He looks like a quality painter to me tbh. Again, I don't know all the facts, only what I've read on here. Someone clear this whole argument up, otherwise it will be the same situation all over the boards, on every thread Deathklok's posted in

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Offline Jonik

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Re: Raptors Army Commission WIP blog
« Reply #58 on: April 11, 2008, 07:53:32 AM »
Excellent?



The robes are appauling, the eye has a blotch of watered down paint around it, and the rest is to a standard that I could paint - and I am no way near good enough to charge for painting.

I don't know the whole story, but if that is the standard of painting done - for money, and not a small amount of cash either - then I can completely see why there is an issue.

As for the confusion, is it this bit?

Quote
I had previously posted that I would not reccommend deathklok's painting service to anyone. I stand by that 100 percent. It took me two weeks of calling and threatening to get him to finally give me back my property

In an earlier post he said he'd not reccomend him. He is now confirmng that. Where's the issue?
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Offline Bournstar69

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Re: Raptors Army Commission WIP blog
« Reply #59 on: April 11, 2008, 07:57:45 AM »

The confusion is that at the start of March, about a month and a bit ago, CDT was seemingly happy with the project:

The man can definitely paint that is for sure, the termies are by far my favorite part of this project so far, and I really like it all.

And then what, maybe a month or so later, we have this wodge of text about not recommending his services, etc.

SO what I'd like to know is what happened in the month to change his mind? Or ... maybe that should be what didn't happen?

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