Topic: Veteran Warrior Raider Squads

[ArchonCryx]

Here's a suggestion for warriors, allowing pistol and ccw bonus:
Also some stuff for Haemonculus Covens, enjoy!;)

      Veteran Warrior Raider Squad

Elite (0-1) May not be included in Wych armies.
5-10 DE warriors. normal characteristics, 8pts each. Sybarite +6pts, may have splinter pistol and ccw for free. Others come with Splinter Rifles but can exchange them for Splinter Pistol and CCW for +1pt per model. One may be armed with a Blaster or Shredder for +10pts. Another may be armed with a Dark Lance or a Splinter Cannon for +10pts. In addition the squad may be armed with plasma grenades for +2pts/model. The Squad must be mounted on a Raider (+55 with DL, +60 with Disintegrator).

If no Wych cult (Wyches, Reavers, or Hellions) are in the army then this squad may choose Haywire grenades +4pts per model. The (0-1) restriction will no longer apply, still counted as elite..


      Haemonculus Covens:
If, in addition to no Wych cult, there are no Dracons or Archons in the army (that is, if the army is led by a Haemonculus) all above apply as well as having these further options:

The Veteran Warriors may each have either Splinter Rifles, Splinter Pistols and CCWs +1pt, or for +2pts may take the `Kroot ability’ by learning to use the splinter rifle as a fierce CCW, giving a bonus attack as if he was equipped with a pistol and CCW. Heavy or Special weapons troopers still get just their normal single attack...

In Haemonculus covens Veteran warriors may exchange their heavy weapon for a 2nd Shredder or Blaster (or one of each....) for +15 points. That is, a squad could have , for example, 2 blasters for +25 points - that’s 10pts for the 1st one and 15 for the second. It costs the same (+25pts) for 2 shredders, 2 Blasters, or 1 of each.

Haemonculus Covens may choose veteran raider squads as Elite and/or as Fast Attack options. The (0-1) restriction does not apply.

The Haemonculus general (ie, only ONE Haemonculus - the appointed leader for the duration of each battle) may choose a veteran raider squad as his bodyguard (using up no `slot' as it is a retinue). The retinue consists of 5-9 warriors (have to leave room on the Raider for the Haemonculus general). If U choose to have such a retinue it stops the haemonculus general from being an independant character. The retinue may exchange it's splinter rifles for pistols and CCWs at no extra cost, otherwise they have the same options as other veteran raider squads in Haemonculus covens.


Thing I'd like to see:
Uber grotesques available as a retinue for Haemonculus General in a Coven Army (Just like Urien Rakath).

Whadd'y'all think???



 

[Shadowlord]

DE have more than enough elites and 0-1 choices. What they could use is an extra troops slot. What about slaves? As for warriors, they would benefit from plasma & haywire grenades (option). Not more.

Warriors in a retinue though could be a little better, or have a special rule that they get sacrificed in mixed retinues. In fact, warriors in a retinue should have an option for blaster/shredder instead of splinter cannon/dark lance as incubi never use their assault weapons.

And don't mess with haemonculi covens please. They don't have enough units (grotesques & talos) to build a real army around. Covens should be small and you can already achieve this with the current rules.

[ArchonCryx]

I do agree that we have enough elite choices. My idea (apparantly to your disgust) was that this wld be a useful replacement for the wych cult in not only Covens, but Kabals that have little (if any!) association with a wych cult. Im not so sure what to do about the refrain `dont mess with H covens...they dont have enuff units...covens shld be small'. I mean, mine is hardly the voice of Ghod or GW moderator. So, if you want, keep em small. It seems that you are happy with H covens but they dont have enuff units

Anyway - it was just a thought, after all the FA is pretty limited for all us DE players, and gets very limited when U eliminate the wych cult options. Perhaps its better as it now is: If a Coven general wishes fast attack options he can choose from Vulture Kroot, Kroot Hound packs and mounted Kroot. Legal in the current rules.  

IMO if you give the SP/CCW option as a troop choice then it wld need to be justified with higher cost. Say 10points per model for squads that have SP and CCW. Decide whether U can have em as footsloggers, or just on raiders

[Rhysk]

All I really want to see is the option to equip warriors with a SP and CCW, instead of the Splinter Rifle. I think that would go along way towards "fixing" the static troops choices of the DE.  

[Shadowlord]

What about allowing warriors to replace up to 1/2 the model's rifles to pistols & ccw for no extra cost, kinda like Tau firewarriors, instead of adding an extra unit? That would keep the assault capability of these basic troops in-line and still be more than sitting ducks.

[Uramael Variegah]

no real need for  veterans, simply allow the regular warriors to get ccw and pistols...looking at the splinter riffle it "should" be useful in close combat...with all those edges (similar to kroot)...sure some like to snipe with a long range gun, but others just like to come in close too...why would they forget their pistol and wicked blade at home?

For an haemonculus coven i'd do the following:

Heavy: Talos
Fast attack: Warrior raider squad
Troops: grotesque foot squad (1-20)
Elite: Grotesque Raider squad with haemonculus leader/mandrakes
HQ: 1 Haemonculi "Master" with grotesques that are immune to psycho (completely drugged)...can be mounted in raider

The usual 1-3 haemonculi can still be bought as a HQ choice.

Maybe put a "grotesque patching tools" on haemonculi to fix them during the battle... and why not a Grotesque Creator as a wargear for the talos to actually build grotesques instead of taking prisoners   !

[ArchonCryx]

I call them `veterans' simply for the want of a better description. The whole point though, is to keep the sp and ccw as a NON troop choice. Lots of DE players, lambasting on this subject, will mention that SMurfs get ccw & SP option, but fail to note that SMurfs cant normally choose pistol and ccw as a troops option. I do realize that Guardian Defenders can do this and be troop choice and that does go to relevance.

All I want is there for to be some option for getting SP and CCW for warriors. But I am uncomfortable with an unlimited troops access, for I think that thats covered by the possibility of wych armies..

I like Uramael's suggestion for a H coven, its an intriging suggestion.

[Rhysk]

What's odd is that Chaos Marines get the option of being equiped with 2 CCW's, obivously Tyranids do, Guardian strom squads can, The space marines get scouts that can come with 2 CCW's. Just about every army gets a troop selection with 2 CCW's except DE. What bothers me about that is the fact that GW was trying to design them as a Raiding force that trys to capture prisoners. It would seem alot easier to capture a prisoner in close combat, then it would by shooting them full of holes with a rifle. Maybe it's just me?

[Archon Xanath]

It would seem alot easier to capture a prisoner in close combat, then it would by shooting them full of holes with a rifle. Maybe it's just me?

If Splinter Rifles were effective, then maybe.  However, seeing as how they're only marginally more effective than IG flashlights, perhaps we're expected to just "wing" them instead? Heh.

Regardless, I agree with your point about us needing a new troop choice.  Perhaps split up the Wyches, standard Wyches as a troops choice, toned down a bit from their current incarnation, and Veteran Wyches as an Elites choice, with more options, weapons, and better drugs.

Archon Xanath

[ArchonCryx]

Does everyone forget - we already have a second (technically a third) troops choice, that comes with splinter pistols and ccws, Wyches! A Wych Cult army is now definiteley a viable army, particulary under the new rules. Do what I do and use the 10 or so warriors you equipped with SP and CCW (because they make the coolest models from the plastic set!) as wyches! Only the most dreary opponent would complain - but don't be bulllied, this is a perfectly valid use of models - they are Citadel minatures still. I usually use my ten warriors in mixes of about 1 plastic to one Wych model. I also have 3 Dk Elf witches that I use (I even stuck on a couple of pistols to their legs for the WYSIWYG pedants) and 3 Howling Banshee models as well. No prizes for working out my favorite minature designer might be (Incubi are some of my favorites). And GW helps you out when describing the Wych weapons: ``it is not neccassary to show WWs on every model, a few in each squad is fine...all models are assumed to be armed with SP and CCW!'' - my read on this is that there is almost no restriction in supplermenting yr wyches with plastic warriors. I always model the blaster or shredder of course. With my oppts permission (not that anyone's made a case about it) I use a warrior that I cut a Splinter Cannon's barrel off to represent another Blaster. The warrriors I use are done up with all sorts of little extras like weapons off their wrists (+ say, a terrorfex), this is mainly b-c I had ambitions to use them for representing Harlequin Mimes.

So Stop complaining...DE undeniably have a troop option that includes pistol and ccws.

[Sybarite24]

I like to use the Warhammer Fantasy figs for wyches, i find them more attractive and they give you a much wider variety of wyches on the field.  Just stick a pistol holster on their leg, or even cut a pistol from the warrior sprue and attach it to their hands.  I always get compiments on my converted wyches.  (maybe it's that all the females are in thongs)  

[Archon J'xom]

Hmm, that sounds kinda cool. And the new warhammer witch elves are definitely sculpted by someone with an interesting sex life

[Rhysk]

Does everyone forget - we already have a second (technically a third) troops choice, that comes with splinter pistols and ccws, Wyches! A Wych Cult army is now definiteley a viable army, particulary under the new rules. Do what I do and use the 10 or so warriors you equipped with SP and CCW (because they make the coolest models from the plastic set!) as wyches! Only the most dreary opponent would complain - but don't be bulllied, this is a perfectly valid use of models - they are Citadel minatures still. I usually use my ten warriors in mixes of about 1 plastic to one Wych model. I also have 3 Dk Elf witches that I use (I even stuck on a couple of pistols to their legs for the WYSIWYG pedants) and 3 Howling Banshee models as well. No prizes for working out my favorite minature designer might be (Incubi are some of my favorites). And GW helps you out when describing the Wych weapons: ``it is not neccassary to show WWs on every model, a few in each squad is fine...all models are assumed to be armed with SP and CCW!'' - my read on this is that there is almost no restriction in supplermenting yr wyches with plastic warriors. I always model the blaster or shredder of course. With my oppts permission (not that anyone's made a case about it) I use a warrior that I cut a Splinter Cannon's barrel off to represent another Blaster. The warrriors I use are done up with all sorts of little extras like weapons off their wrists (+ say, a terrorfex), this is mainly b-c I had ambitions to use them for representing Harlequin Mimes.

So Stop complaining...DE undeniably have a troop option that includes pistol and ccws.

Here's the thing Alex, if take a wych cult you no longer have a shooting troops choice, as warriors become elites...(That just sounds strange.) Anyway, regardless of how you shake it down, the Dark Eldar only have one viable troop type per army. You either get shooting warriors, or CC wyches, but never both as troops and that sucks...