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Offline Grand Master Lomandalis

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #540 on: June 5, 2017, 01:04:31 AM »
And assassins, well brutal to say the least.
They're actually pretty toned down now, but their points have been brought to a level that makes sense for their abilities.  There is no reason that the Vindicare should have been 150pts, whereas now he is much more reasonably costed for what he does.
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Offline Wyddr

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #541 on: June 5, 2017, 06:24:46 AM »
All? Bold man.

I own and play armies in 3 out of the 4 books, so I figured, what's another 25 bucks?

Offline Mr.Peanut (Turtleproof)

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #542 on: June 5, 2017, 07:49:56 PM »
I was dreading when they'd finally Sigmar 40k but it seems like we're getting something that isn't a total mess like 7th was.  It's shady that they sold so many supplements last year that are now obsolete but this is the same company that charges ever crazier prices even after it outsourced its manufacturing to slaves.  I've read some battle reports with the test rules and seen some videos, the response so far is positive.

The new power/upgrade system isn't perfect but when has GW ever cared about giving appropriate point values to things?  Space Marine Bikes used to be 35 points, Kastellans were a total bargain.  I'm encouraged that GW is releasing prototype rules for all the armies like it did in 3rd edition, if you're unhappy about something it will be tweaked when the index is released later.

Edit: the changes to how characters is also oldschool like 3rd/4th edition, that's nice.  The abolition of templates also means that there's no longer a need to shift models around at exactly 3" spacing to maximize survivability.
« Last Edit: June 5, 2017, 07:52:05 PM by Mr.Peanut (Turtleproof) »
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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #543 on: June 6, 2017, 12:26:05 AM »
3" spacing will help keep deep strikers from getting behind you in your deployment zone for a turn or 2 tho. The only thought I had on that. So even a conga line will still only suffer the amount of damage weapons put out.
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Offline Revener

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #544 on: June 6, 2017, 07:13:31 AM »
The rule for poison weapon that if your strenght if high enough would let you wound on a better number than the posion value , for example 4+ but you have a Strenght of 6 VS T5 and would wound on 3+  is no more and high S units like DE Grotesques with S5 now wound of 4+ with fleshgauntlet no matter what. Thats is going to suck VS low T vehicles since they are wounded on 6+ even if you would wound them on 5+ with your bare fists. :)
Anyway......

Offline Lord of Winter and War

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #545 on: June 6, 2017, 11:47:47 AM »
The rule for poison weapon that if your strenght if high enough would let you wound on a better number than the posion value , for example 4+ but you have a Strenght of 6 VS T5 and would wound on 3+  is no more and high S units like DE Grotesques with S5 now wound of 4+ with fleshgauntlet no matter what. Thats is going to suck VS low T vehicles since they are wounded on 6+ even if you would wound them on 5+ with your bare fists. :)

That is not a rule.

But, some units like Grotesques have multiple weapons and can choose to use their Giant Cleavers, instead of the flesh Gauntlets when fighting vehicles.

But, hey, at least poison weapons can hurt vehicles now.

3" spacing will help keep deep strikers from getting behind you in your deployment zone for a turn or 2 tho. The only thought I had on that. So even a conga line will still only suffer the amount of damage weapons put out.

2" coherency Horizontally, 6" vertically. Nothing has a 3" coherency unless it says so on the units datasheet.

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Offline Dread

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #546 on: June 6, 2017, 12:14:57 PM »
To literal bud. Every one knows it's a 2 inch coherency. He was u it using that as example.
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Offline magenb

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #547 on: June 6, 2017, 04:51:54 PM »

3" spacing will help keep deep strikers from getting behind you in your deployment zone for a turn or 2 tho. The only thought I had on that. So even a conga line will still only suffer the amount of damage weapons put out.

2" coherency Horizontally, 6" vertically. Nothing has a 3" coherency unless it says so on the units datasheet.

DS must deploy 9" inches ways, given deplyment zones are typically 12", if you deploy 3" back, they can not DS behind you. Additionally no more blast templates, so you can have squads 3" apart making it hard for DS to land in the middle, or to keep a character out of rapid firing units from drop pods, etc, etc.

Offline Lord of Winter and War

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #548 on: June 6, 2017, 07:28:05 PM »
True, although you'll need to move up eventually. But, at least deep striking models have to come in within the first three turns.

I'm really keen to try out warptime with mutilators to get in turn one charges with my iron warriors.

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Offline Wyddr

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #549 on: June 7, 2017, 10:09:23 AM »
Harlequins are up.

The interesting takeaway here is that there seems to be *some* effect for terrain to slow you down, since Flip Belts ignore it, though I hadn't seen any such in the core rules I've seen leaked. Perhaps flip belts just let them run over walls/vertical terrain?

Offline Lord of Winter and War

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #550 on: June 7, 2017, 10:24:29 AM »
In the advanced rules, there are rules for ruins and other terrain types. Ruins for example subtract 2" from charge distance.

Also, from the games I played, Harlequins are really good. They hit harder, and are way more resilient then in 7th. Plus, rising crescendo is imo one of the best faction universal rules.
« Last Edit: June 7, 2017, 10:25:50 AM by Killersquid »
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Offline Wyddr

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #551 on: June 7, 2017, 01:13:14 PM »
In the advanced rules, there are rules for ruins and other terrain types. Ruins for example subtract 2" from charge distance.

Ah, good. I'm glad. 

Quote
Also, from the games I played, Harlequins are really good. They hit harder, and are way more resilient then in 7th. Plus, rising crescendo is imo one of the best faction universal rules.

Well, yeah. That rule is incredible. Everybody wishes they could have that rule.

Offline Grand Master Lomandalis

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #552 on: June 7, 2017, 05:43:01 PM »
I think one of the biggest differences in terrain is that the rules flat out say that you can not move through walls.  With previous editions, if you had ruins set up as area terrain, they blocked line of sight but units could bust through the walls ala Kool-Aide Man.  Now, you have to go around unless you have a rule that says otherwise (like the Flip Belt).
If there is anything that recent politics has taught us, it is that quotes taken out of context can mean what ever you want them to.
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Offline Revener

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #553 on: June 7, 2017, 06:03:17 PM »
The rule for poison weapon that if your strenght if high enough would let you wound on a better number than the posion value , for example 4+ but you have a Strenght of 6 VS T5 and would wound on 3+  is no more and high S units like DE Grotesques with S5 now wound of 4+ with fleshgauntlet no matter what. Thats is going to suck VS low T vehicles since they are wounded on 6+ even if you would wound them on 5+ with your bare fists. :)

That is not a rule.

But, some units like Grotesques have multiple weapons and can choose to use their Giant Cleavers, instead of the flesh Gauntlets when fighting vehicles.

But, hey, at least poison weapons can hurt vehicles now.



Yeah a read a bit fast and didn't think it through when I playtested. I read the  cleaver as 1 attack aside from the rest with fleshgauntlet doh! :)
Either way it is still an issue on some units. Like wracks fpr example they have S3 and would wound T5 Vehicles on 5+ but their weapon makes them wound it on 6+  .

Btw losing 1 A with the Wych hekatrix when you take an agonizer sucks.

Either way there are some change that are more like streamdumbing than streamlining the gameplay.

Like if one unit have 1 model outside of cover everyone in the unit  can get  killed.

Removing Initiative in combat was kind of meh too.
The moral test at the end of closecombat includes losses you took in overwatch .
« Last Edit: June 7, 2017, 06:08:08 PM by Revener »
Anyway......

Offline Lord of Winter and War

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #554 on: June 7, 2017, 06:24:16 PM »

The moral test at the end of closecombat includes losses you took in overwatch .

Losses you took in the whole turn. Shooting included.

Quote
Yeah a read a bit fast and didn't think it through when I playtested. I read the  cleaver as 1 attack aside from the rest with fleshgauntlet doh! :)
Either way it is still an issue on some units. Like wracks fpr example they have S3 and would wound T5 Vehicles on 5+ but their weapon makes them wound it on 6+  .

Btw losing 1 A with the Wych hekatrix when you take an agonizer sucks.

Shouldn't be seeing too many vehicles on the table anymore, as they are incredibly more expensive then they used to be. Dark Eldar have amazing tools for dealing with armor as well. Scourge's, Ravegers, all good.


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Offline Wyddr

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #555 on: June 7, 2017, 06:25:49 PM »
I think one big change not yet discussed is the loss of a bonus attack for charging. Granted a lot of assault specialists got that rule back with gear, but it's a big swing for those who don't have the kit.

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #556 on: June 8, 2017, 05:50:55 AM »
I think one big change not yet discussed is the loss of a bonus attack for charging. Granted a lot of assault specialists got that rule back with gear, but it's a big swing for those who don't have the kit.

What most units  lost and got back is the extra atack lost from having two close combat weapons.

None of the DE assault units got an extra attack to make up on te loss fore the charghe attack, although wyches can now shoot pistols in the fight phase even in close combat so.

Wyches get the same number of melee attacks as before though if they use the Hekatarii knife but if the Hekatric switch it out for another weapon she lose 1 attack.

Wracks got A2 though and the Acothyst A3 so he doesn't lose an atatck when he takes another weapon.


Post Merge: June  8, 2017, 06:09:11 AM
In the future, please use the modify button. Double posting is against the forum rules, and for that reason, the system merged your posts.


The moral test at the end of closecombat includes losses you took in overwatch .

Losses you took in the whole turn. Shooting included.

Quote
Yeah a read a bit fast and didn't think it through when I playtested. I read the  cleaver as 1 attack aside from the rest with fleshgauntlet doh! :)
Either way it is still an issue on some units. Like wracks fpr example they have S3 and would wound T5 Vehicles on 5+ but their weapon makes them wound it on 6+  .

Btw losing 1 A with the Wych hekatrix when you take an agonizer sucks.

Shouldn't be seeing too many vehicles on the table anymore, as they are incredibly more expensive than they used to be. Dark Eldar have amazing tools for dealing with armor as well. Scourge's, Ravegers, all good.

1.
I know it is from all shooting but it is kind of hard to get shot other than in overwatch in your own turn :) But yeah for the enemy that you shoot before you charge it is from all shooting I guess. So yeah I sloppily wrote that from the perspective as attackign in my turn. :)

2.
Yeah well I play CC DE with some support, the nerfing of DE's close combat Anti Tank the last few years  is really annoying. All other armies that can CC get decent AT options in CC. Would like some flexibility back in the game instead of more limited gear choices for units in every new codex. Look at the Archon now it is lame and was lame in the third codex too. Anyway, I do not want to use scourges Oh well time to dust off the old Talos I guess.

Besides this, Toughness is not as good as before since you have twice the T VS S before you get wounded on 6+ . So a S3 wounds a T5 on 5+ compared to before when it was 6+. So alot of vehicles now get wounded on 5+ instead of 6+.


« Last Edit: June 8, 2017, 06:09:11 AM by Revener »
Anyway......

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #557 on: June 9, 2017, 12:29:29 PM »
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Offline Grand Master Lomandalis

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #558 on: June 10, 2017, 01:39:34 AM »
I got my first game of 8th in a couple of days ago, and I am quite impressed.

Some of the things I took away from the game:
  • Vehicles drop severely in effectiveness when they are damaged.  I brought a Land Raider in my Deathwing list, and it got taken down to 50% in the top of turn 1.  Losing half its speed and its BS dropping effectively took it out of the game.
  • You need psychic defence of some kind.
  • Smite is a fantastic power on a mobile psyker
  • Combat is most definitely not dead because of how quickly things get across the board.  My Land Raider had backlined and was assault by genestealers on the top of turn 1 thanks to the Swarmlord.
  • Swarms, with the right buffs, are terrifying.  I got stuck in with his gaunts near a Tervigon and managed to kill 89 out of 60 gaunts.  Yeah, you read that right.

If there is anything that recent politics has taught us, it is that quotes taken out of context can mean what ever you want them to.
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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #559 on: June 10, 2017, 12:10:08 PM »
It's cool that hoards have found a purpose.  You should be somewhat rewarded for having the patience to build all those models.

And from all I've heard, nids, orks and the guard are back in the game!

 


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