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Offline The GrimSqueaker

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #180 on: May 5, 2017, 03:58:44 PM »
So flyers are in, but not fortifications  ???

There's a battlefield role literally named fortification.
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Offline Fenris

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #181 on: May 5, 2017, 05:05:46 PM »
So flyers are in, but not fortifications  ???

There's a battlefield role literally named fortification.
I meant in the shown detachments. There there is only flyers, no fortifications, but I guess fortifications are still without a faction. The word was that there are 14 detachments/formations in the rulebook, so there are probably a couple that will include fortifications.
Maybe fortifications and buildings will still have AV?
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Offline Grand Master Lomandalis

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #182 on: May 5, 2017, 05:30:21 PM »
Maybe fortifications and buildings will still have AV?
I doubt it.  They have flat out said that Armour Values are gone.
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Offline Fenris

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #183 on: May 5, 2017, 05:59:54 PM »
Maybe fortifications and buildings will still have AV?
I doubt it.  They have flat out said that Armour Values are gone.
Do you have a link to that, because all I can find on the 40k community page is that vehicles including superheavies will have wounds rather than AV.
The notion of AV being gone may just be an interpretation, a very plausible one I admit, but not confirmed anywhere that I know of.
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Offline Changeyname

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #184 on: May 5, 2017, 07:11:28 PM »
Do you have a link to that, because all I can find on the 40k community page is that vehicles including superheavies will have wounds rather than AV.
The notion of AV being gone may just be an interpretation, a very plausible one I admit, but not confirmed anywhere that I know of.
It's in the Warhammer TV Facebook page live FAQ video somewhere... too close to bedtime for me to find the time stamp sorry but they definitely state that Vehicles (and MC's as well) have damage tables and wounds like the large monsters of AoS have with reduced effectiveness as they continue to get smacked around
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Offline angel of death 007

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #185 on: May 5, 2017, 07:47:56 PM »
I'm not a massive fan of this morale system

Yeah I hear you, Moral should reduced effectiveness (-1 WS/BS etc) or running away scared, or in IG case, the officer shooting men lol, these make sense. Having hardened warriors literally getting scared to death on battlefield is just daft.

The old fearless when losing CC they had to take X amount of wounds.   I think it may finally balance out power armored troops.  The space marine standard points cost with the ATSKNF, gernades, above average stats, and a great save have always been severely under priced in points IMHO.  Especially compared to other models.  Hopefully this balances that out some.

Offline Wyddr

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #186 on: May 5, 2017, 07:52:40 PM »
I, for one, am very interested in what Command Points do. I hope it's a turn-long, army-wide benefit, like SM doctrines. If I gotta spend them for individual re-rolls, that would be lame.

Also, for as much as they say "formations are gone," I'd fully expect to see them show up again in codexes and supplements, albeit with different names/rules.

Edit: Command Points, not Strategy Points
« Last Edit: May 5, 2017, 09:57:33 PM by Wyddr »

Offline Grand Master Lomandalis

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #187 on: May 5, 2017, 10:57:51 PM »
Maybe fortifications and buildings will still have AV?
I doubt it.  They have flat out said that Armour Values are gone.
Do you have a link to that, because all I can find on the 40k community page is that vehicles including superheavies will have wounds rather than AV.
The notion of AV being gone may just be an interpretation, a very plausible one I admit, but not confirmed anywhere that I know of.
KillerSquid did a summary of the WHTV live Q&A that says no more AV - Eighth Edition News
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Offline Fenris

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #188 on: May 6, 2017, 03:21:09 AM »
@Changeyname & GML: I have seen that video before and read through Killersquids summary. Neither one says "no more AV". They say AV is replaced with wounds for vehicles, superheavies, MC, GC etc. but never a general "AV is gone" nor is buildings or fortifications mentioned.
However they do say all models will have wounds, wether fortifications are considerred models or not, I have no clue.
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Offline Grand Master Lomandalis

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #189 on: May 6, 2017, 06:14:10 AM »
Quote
Q: Any specific rules around vehicles and armor values?
A: No armor value anymore. All models use the same type of stat line. Big tanks get wounded (all have a damage table and stats decrease). Different for every model. Keeps vehicles through the game. Str and Toughness works where everyone can hurt everyone. (sounds like AoS there)

Emphasis mine.  I don't know how you can interpret that in any way except for the fact that there are no more armour values.
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Offline Cavalier

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #190 on: May 6, 2017, 07:12:40 AM »
Quote from: Irisado
I was getting excited when they said that formations had vanished.  I'm trying to erase that lower left symbol from my mind :P.  That said, it could have been worse.  I'm not sure that I've fully understood this detachment concept.  Is it detachments within an army or is it the whole army?  I will have to re-read it again later.

I'm pretty sure the detachment is the entire army. From what I gather the images provided are examples of how you scale up your FOC. Basically you spend points on additional HQ + Troop slots to unlock additional slots on the FOC.

I really like this. This is basically how the Corsair Raiding Company worked. Where your Prince needs additional logistical support via HQ choices to coordinate the efforts of a larger force.

So its really points intensive to get those additional slots, while command points in theory will allow those unlocked slots formation like perks. The difference being you have to pay for it in points by increasing the base troops, more HQ's choices to coordinate the larger army and adhere to the FOC which I really like.

We'll have to see more... but I'm loving the direction. Its simple and seems to lend itself to good balance in terms of points expenditure for additional power. We'll just have to wait and see though
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Offline faitherun (Fay-ith-er-run)

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #191 on: May 6, 2017, 09:53:12 AM »
I would like to point out that in the three detachments they previewed, no LoW was permitted. So, at the smaller points level, it will be hard to get in a LoW. Furthermore, if we assume the detachments continue to scale up until LoW is an option, the mandatory choices also scale up.

A brigade requires a ton of investment, and even at that point there is no LoW. 3 HQ, elites, fast, and heavy, with 6 troops mandatory - that effectively removes LoW from low point games. And at a Brigade level, there is still no LoW.

This is a very good thing IMO, as for the fun of it I ran a WraithKnight in a 500 pt game the other day. (Was vs my brother as a try to Screw you). That is beyond broken.
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Offline Wyddr

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #192 on: May 6, 2017, 08:18:48 PM »
Speaking of Command Points, it occurs to me that we already have so many abilities that so many armies use on a turn-by-turn basis.

> Astra Militarum/Tempestus Orders
> Adeptus Astartes Doctrines
> Skitarii Doctrina Imperatives (and the Cult Mechanicus equivalent)
> Tau Invocations of the Elements

To some extent, we might already be looking at how Command Points are going to work, more or less.

Offline magenb

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #193 on: May 7, 2017, 08:19:13 AM »
A brigade requires a ton of investment, and even at that point there is no LoW. 3 HQ, elites, fast, and heavy, with 6 troops mandatory - that effectively removes LoW from low point games. And at a Brigade level, there is still no LoW.

For those that missed the Q&A video a while back, the detachments are the way you CAN field and army, doing so generates that new command point things. They said that you could mix and match as much as you like, its just that you will have less CP to spend.

In the same video they said there would be over 14 detachments, so don't count your chickens just yet.

Regarding the Brigade... 18-37 slots to be used, Currently that would not be a small game, the current list of LoW pool ranges from Eldar Avatar's to Wraithknights to actual Titans. An army that big should be able to handle a single WK or lower. So it makes me think the LoW pool is going to change as well, I wouldn't be surprised to see the Avatar being moved back to HQ for example.



Offline Wyddr

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #194 on: May 7, 2017, 10:33:19 AM »
The post on big models is up. Two thoughts:

The stat degradation, assuming it follows significant fractions (1/2 wounds left, 1/4 wounds left) looks easier than I considered.

Second: big guns are going to be *huge* this edition. I forsee the lascannon returning to popularity a *lot.* Stripping wounds off those monsters will be no small feat.

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #195 on: May 7, 2017, 11:42:26 AM »
The wound degradation mechanic is taken from Age of Sigmar, where I've found that it does work well enough.  I think that it will be better suited to 40K though, as it seems more suited to the type of damage that can be dealt to super heavies and vehicles.

I agree about heavy weapons making something of a come back.  Units like this are also going to make certain specialist units, such as Fire Dragons or Havocs, all the more vital, both in terms of the damage that they can inflict, and in terms of being an even more high priority target.  Interesting times.

Here is the link: New Warhammer 40,000: Large Models – Warhammer Community
« Last Edit: May 7, 2017, 12:03:17 PM by Irisado »
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Offline Cavalier

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #196 on: May 7, 2017, 04:53:48 PM »
One thing that made me happy is the mention of no more 1 shot KO's on vehicles. The specific mention of 1 shotting a Land Raider with a lone Melta Gun was good to see IMO. I'm really looking forward to seeing the iconic vehicles return to prominence. Especially Land Raiders and Leman Russ.

The cool thing is the preview of the Lascannon can let us be reissured that classic heavy weapons will give us the tools to take out vehicles with high wound totals.

Also Frankie's article about Chaos was SUPER encouraging. He really didn't hold any punches in his analysis of playing Chaos for the past 2 editions... and if that level of unvarnished truth was any measure of his estimate of where Chaos is going to stand in the new editions, its also super encouraging. Especially with GW going out of their way to mention Frankie test-playing the game for HUNDREDS of hours... Crazy

Can't wait for this new edition to drop
« Last Edit: May 7, 2017, 04:55:00 PM by Cavalier »
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Offline Partninja

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #197 on: May 7, 2017, 05:28:51 PM »
With the Gorka/Morka being moved to T8 it makes me wonder what toughness (and to a lesser extent wounds) something like a Landraider will be. 9 or 10 since a LR was 14 on all sides? What about things like Wraithlords and Wraithknights which had some of the highest toughness out there? Will they just get more wounds?

Also has me curious about Melta and Lance weapons. Will lance weapons just reduce toughness to a certain amount or just have improved stats? Will Melta weapons have a higher strength and/or some other strength modifier for Melta range?


Offline Wyddr

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #198 on: May 7, 2017, 09:00:04 PM »
It seems to me that vehicle toughness is not related to AV, but rather "size." Bigger you are, the higher the T, the wounds, etc.. I'm not sure there's a direct correlation between any of the current stats and the new ones.

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #199 on: May 8, 2017, 11:38:14 AM »
Infantry article is up now New Warhammer 40,000: Infantry – Warhammer Community

I'm liking the new S vs T comparison.  Combined with the amount of wounds we're seeing for large models it leaves that chance for small arms to wound large models but it'll take alot of shooting.

But my biggest take away is squads can now shoot at as many targets as they want!  I see this making a lot of units and options viable.  Big ones that jump out to me are Fusion blasters on Stealth Suits and Ion Rifles and Rail Rifles on Pathfinders.  In fact with the change to how AP works I can actually see pathfinders becoming useful.

 


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