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Offline Kindred

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Political pop-up...
« on: January 8, 2012, 10:35:29 AM »
I apologize for the political pop-up/advertisement on the front page.

I would not normally inflict such a thing on our users, but the SOPA legislation is such a critical issue that would affect ALL internet users, regardless of country of origin, that I felt that the news needed to be spread.

The pop-up should only trigger once on any individual computer's visit to the main site page.

The bill goes before the American Senate on January 24th. After that time, if approved, it will go to the President.

The problem with SOPA is not the concept, but the implementation. As you all know, we are extremely vigilant on this site, regarding the protection of Intellectual Property (IP) and Copyrights. We agree with the CONCEPT and INTENTION of the SOPA bill. Protection of IP is a critical issue on the web, with pirate sites and download/redistribution of copyrighted material. The issue with SOPA is that the bill was written by individuals who have only a passing knowledge (f that) of the web, its use and the technology. As written, (like the Patriot Act) it basically gives the US government and other agencies the right to shut down a website and prosecute the owners on the thinnest of accusations (not even proof).

There are several alternative (and well thought) legislative concepts already written and presented, including the recommendation of the so-called OPEN act (from keepthewebopen.com)
http://www.keepthewebopen.com/assets/pdfs/12-13-11%20Big%20Web%20Companies%20OPEN%20Endorsement%20Letter.pdf
http://www.keepthewebopen.com/sopa-vs-open
but SOPA and the equally problematic PIPA are still being voted on.

It is important that every American contact his or her senator (and representative) and let them know that the SOPA and PIPA legislation needs to be rethought and redrafted.


As part of this, we will be participating in the Internet Blackout, scheduled (tentatively) for January 23.
http://www.searchenginejournal.com/tech-giants-support-open-act/38534/
http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/12/30/will-google-amazon-and-facebook-blackout-net/
http://www.imperfectparent.com/topics/2012/01/04/sopa-blackout-facebook-google-twitter-amazon-and-others/


If this bill passes, the following is a screen that will become quite prevalent.
[smg id=4423 type=full align=center caption="Content Blocked - SOPA"]
[smg id=4424 type=full align=center caption="Censored - SOPA"]
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Offline Admiral Dred

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Re: Political pop-up...
« Reply #1 on: January 8, 2012, 05:42:03 PM »
I have gotten the pop-up twice.
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Offline The GrimSqueaker

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Re: Political pop-up...
« Reply #2 on: January 8, 2012, 10:22:14 PM »
I got a second go around as well which probably means it's on a 24 hour cycle or refresh. No harm, no foul.
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Offline Admiral Dred

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Re: Political pop-up...
« Reply #3 on: January 8, 2012, 11:02:46 PM »
Alright, thanks.  Wanted to make sure that snotlings weren't infiltrating my IP address or something ;)
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Offline Rasmus

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Re: Political pop-up...
« Reply #4 on: January 9, 2012, 06:45:00 AM »
If you move to another IP then the popup will not know it is you so it will refresh.

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Offline Arquarian

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Re: Political pop-up...
« Reply #5 on: January 9, 2012, 07:20:16 AM »
I hate to say this but is this the right place for such a a political statement.

Discussing the impact of a political event os one thing but by having that statement on the front pae this website is now aligning itself on one side of the political argument.

I just hope whoever is responsible has thought through the consequences.

Persoanlly if this site is now going to be used for political statemtn not matter what that be, SOPA, Free Palestine, Democracy in China, Gay Rights whatever then I shall cease to be a member.

This is a hobby website concerning itself with an imaginary world and I hope it continuers as such.

Offline Benis

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Re: Political pop-up...
« Reply #6 on: January 9, 2012, 08:26:37 AM »
I think there is a slight difference between the issues you compare SOPA to and the nature of this place as an open community on the internet - It is in the interest of this site and many others that SOPA does not get passed, not necessarily as a political cause but as an attempt to keep the freedom of places like this.

Offline Irisado

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Re: Political pop-up...
« Reply #7 on: January 9, 2012, 09:35:00 AM »
I agree with Benis on this, as there is a clear interest for this site to campaign for this bill not to be passed.  If the bill is going to impact on our ability to discuss a hobby as we have been able to previously, then it makes sense for an announcement to be made to make forum members aware, and give them the opportunity to protest if they choose to do so.

This hardly amounts to the politicisation of 40K Online  ;).
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Offline wper34

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Re: Political pop-up...
« Reply #8 on: January 9, 2012, 09:52:33 AM »
I hate to say this but is this the right place for such a a political statement.

Well, if it would make you feel any better, you could always take it to the Discussion forum...

Or the thread I created a long while ago: SOPA: The Internet War (US Congress Bill to control the Internet) (I asked Kindred already about linking it from here.)


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Offline Lachdonin

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Re: Political pop-up...
« Reply #9 on: January 9, 2012, 10:56:59 AM »
I hate to say this but is this the right place for such a a political statement.

Discussing the impact of a political event os one thing but by having that statement on the front pae this website is now aligning itself on one side of the political argument.

I agree with Benis, Iri and the admins on this one. If a bill was before the government that would ban "The sale of produces pertaining to the depiction of fictional or otherwise unproven universes" then this community would have to, by its very nature, stand opposed to it. In the same way, SOPA directly limits this community, which by its very nature pushes the limits of the legeslation. As such, 40kO is mandated by its existance to pick a particular side, so i don't think the popup is in anyway an attempt to push a particular political idea.
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Offline Arquarian

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Re: Political pop-up...
« Reply #10 on: January 9, 2012, 12:35:33 PM »
I fully agree with all of you on the issue at hand and I do not want this buill or any like it to be passed but that is not my point.

By aligning this website as has been done the site is being made into a political entity and those who use the site are unwittingly will be seen as supporting the view of that site. Remember there are pleanty of organisation which monitor what users visits what sites...

Offline Lachdonin

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Re: Political pop-up...
« Reply #11 on: January 9, 2012, 12:38:40 PM »
I mean that the very existance of this site is in implied opposition of the bill. I see no problem with making an implied possition a codified one.
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Offline Farceseer Syranaul

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Re: Political pop-up...
« Reply #12 on: January 9, 2012, 01:02:32 PM »
Persoanlly if this site is now going to be used for political statemtn not matter what that be, SOPA, Free Palestine, Democracy in China, Gay Rights whatever then I shall cease to be a member.
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Offline Grand Master Lomandalis

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Re: Political pop-up...
« Reply #13 on: January 9, 2012, 02:18:07 PM »
Persoanlly if this site is now going to be used for political statemtn not matter what that be, SOPA, Free Palestine, Democracy in China, Gay Rights whatever then I shall cease to be a member.

The site isn't being used for political statement.  The site is informing the masses about this upcoming bill, provides necessary information regarding it, allows the user to make their own choice on the bill, and asks you to do one thing if you oppose the bill.  And then what does it do?  Oh yeah, beslubbers right off and you never see the message again.

There is a bit of a difference between informing people about what SOPA is going to do to the internet and the other highly debated issues you listed.

If the Canadian government were to put a bill forward saying that murder isn't illegal if the victim is over the age of 80, would you be this upset if the site did what it is doing now?  Brought the bill to your attention for the sheer wrongness of it and asked you to do all that you can to stop something that clearly isn't right?  (Reason I specified Canadian government is because Raine is Canadian)

If it bothers you so much what has been done, then I think Syranaul said it best:

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Offline wper34

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Re: Political pop-up...
« Reply #14 on: January 9, 2012, 02:53:54 PM »
Persoanlly if this site is now going to be used for political statemtn not matter what that be, SOPA, Free Palestine, Democracy in China, Gay Rights whatever then I shall cease to be a member.

The site isn't being used for political statement.  The site is informing the masses about this upcoming bill, provides necessary information regarding it, allows the user to make their own choice on the bill, and asks you to do one thing if you oppose the bill.  And then what does it do?  Oh yeah, beslubbers right off and you never see the message again.

Indeed, Grand Master Lomandalis had hit on the important point of why Kindred decided to put that up on this site. This is because SOPA will have an impact on 40KOnline forum whether it is directly or indirectly. (Although most likely to be direct since the server is located in the US.)

In fact, I was tempted to ask Kindred & possibly the majority of staffs if we could advertise about this back in mid December or after I posted up the thread about SOPA. However, I chose not to, because I feel that I might be overstepping the boundary of my position as a normal user of this forum. :-\

Additionally, I personally think Kindred could have chosen other better words rather than "Political pop-up", because the thread name & metadata (or information/meaning associating with the words) can give one a wrong impression of the point made in this announcement.

@Arquarian - I think I also should mention to you that many many other websites, social networking ones, and other online communities also did put up such announcement about SOPA to increase public awareness. To name a few... Mozilla, Tumblr, Reddit, 4chan, etc...


Anywho, I'm personally glad that Kindred decided to do this. :)
« Last Edit: January 9, 2012, 03:06:41 PM by wper34 »

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Offline Irisado

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Re: Political pop-up...
« Reply #15 on: January 9, 2012, 03:31:23 PM »
By aligning this website as has been done the site is being made into a political entity and those who use the site are unwittingly will be seen as supporting the view of that site. Remember there are pleanty of organisation which monitor what users visits what sites...

You have freedom of choice.  If you had no freedom of choice, the staff would simply say if you don't sign this you're banned from the forum.  There are no whips forcing you to vote in favour of the motion ;).

All the pop-up is doing is raising awareness.  For example, I don't follow US domestic policy very closely, so I wasn't aware of just how drastically the bill could impinge on my internet access, but this pop-up has made me aware.  It did not, however, compel me to vote.

If you don't want to vote, then you don't have to, so this idea the site has somehow become a political entity seems misplaced to me.
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Offline Arquarian

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Re: Political pop-up...
« Reply #16 on: January 9, 2012, 05:58:50 PM »
You must admit you can tell the difference between discussing political topics and having a statement, however innocuous, implying a position on a topical political matter.

I say again I oppose this bill and all infringements on any civil liberties the world throughout. This bill is an impingement on  my own civil liberties which is issue number one (for me) the fact that I have NO SAY WHATSOEVER, being an Englishman, is issue number two. BUT I do not think that here is the correct place to make a stand. By having the pop I believe you are making the site political.

I'm clearly not going to say any opinions and as has been stated we are all free to our own. Mine is that I don not agree with this site hosting any pop up / banner or other device which clearly implies a political stand point. However righteous that stand point may be.

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Offline Kindred

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Re: Political pop-up...
« Reply #17 on: January 9, 2012, 07:03:07 PM »
You are free to disagree with whatever you like. You are also free to stop frequenting the site if it means that much to you.

However, as I, and others, have already said - The implementation of SOPA and/or PIPA would directly and adversely affect this site - potentially opening the site, the staff and Raine to fines and shut-down, if not prison (since Raine is Canadian). Therefor, I deemed it critical to notify the users of the situation.
As was also said, I probably mis-typed when I titled this thread "political" since the pop-up is not actually, specifically political in nature, but there it is...

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Offline crew4man

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Re: Political pop-up...
« Reply #18 on: January 9, 2012, 07:53:06 PM »
In a way, the site is political, simply because it is on the internet. Its about survival, pure and simple.

As a moderator on the Starcast forums (SCII podcast, (shamelessplug)), we had a thread about SOPA made and I was like "Mhm. Survival of the internet....good announcement topic."

Don't need no admin permissions if you're insane, you see.

Perhaps you've read the Dune Prequels and the Zensunni, or heard of  "Belgium." Belgium was neutral. Belgium got streamrolled in both WWs. It was neutral, mind you. But this is a fight of survival. The nice thing is that I think we do have a couple of precedents in our favor, in that even if it passes, there is the Supreme Court.


If you use the internet, there is no middle ground. Its the Internet vs. SOPA.
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Offline Rasmus

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Re: Political pop-up...
« Reply #19 on: January 10, 2012, 03:53:44 AM »
As far as "politicizing" the forum into taking one side of an issue, as opposed to none at all, it goes something like this.
We are not a government agency. This is a privately owned site. We can therefore cater to any (legal) content or group that we choose. We have chosen to narrow that field down to Hobbies -> Games -> Wargames -> Miniature Wargames -> Games Workshop-based Miniature Wargames -> 40k/FB. We have now, if you want to see this as another standpoint, narrowed it further to Hobbies -> Games -> Wargames -> Miniature Wargames -> Games Workshop-based Miniature Wargames -> 40k/FB -> Players of 40k/FB that would like to keep the internet.

If this is an issue for you then I am sorry to see you go, but this is really very much a no-brainer as far as I can see it, philosophically, morally and politically. If we have made it "Players of 40k/FB that would like legalize childporn" or "Players of 40k/FB that would like to eradicate north Korea" I can see where your point of contention would be, but in this case it seems more of "high horse-ing" to me than anything else.

And there ARE things you can do about SOPA even though you are not a US resident. I am not a US resident and I am involved in this. You can too.

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