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Author Topic: TMC-less 2k 'Nid List  (Read 1056 times)

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Offline -Makenshi-

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TMC-less 2k 'Nid List
« on: December 15, 2004, 03:32:31 PM »
how effective do you think the following 'create your on hive fleet' list could be as it has no TMCs? (a challenge by my friend who said 'Nids can't win without them)

Species'
1. Biovore (HS)
2. Infestation Warriors (Basic+Leaping+Bio-Plasma+Scything Talons+Rending Claws)=38pts/model (HQ/E)
3. Swarm Warriors (Basic+Deathspitter+Rending Claws)=28pts/model (HQ/E)
4. Infestagaunts (Basic+Leaping+Scythign Talons+Adrenal Glands(I))=10pts/model (T)
5. Swarmagaunt (Basic+Spinefist)=5pts/model (T)
6. Executioner Warrior (Basic+Wings+Enhanced Senses+Venom Cannon+Scything Talons=50pts/Model (HQ/FA?)

note-im not sure if No.6 is HQ/FA or HQ/HS, it doesnt really make a difference in this case as i could fit it in either but if some1 could clear it up that would help ^_^

=HQ=
(x2) 4 Infestation Warriors
1w/ Acid Blood
=324pts (162/Brood)

=E=
(x2) 4 Swarm Warriors
=224pts (112/squad)

=T=
(x3) 24 Infestagaunts
1 Hive Node
=750pts (250/squad)

(x2) 24 Swarmagaunts
1 Hive Node
=260pts (130/squad)

=FA=
(x2) 3 Executioner Warriros
=300pts (150/squad)

=HS=
3 Biovores
2w/ Poison Mines
1w/ Frag
=154pts

=TOTAL=
=1996pts

so how well do yuo think this would do?

thanks to all that reply ^_^
Quote from: IainC
Because spamming the hotkey for a Deathknight's weapon in WoW is precisely the same as learning to use a sword in real life. That's why when Kendo grandmasters fight, they just stand there shouting keystroke combos at each other.

Offline Arcas

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Re: TMC-less 2k 'Nid List
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2004, 04:44:58 PM »
Bio plasma is a dangerous thing to use. Your opponent might reduce the casualties from base contact, and if he manages to remove enough of them then you can lose your normal attacks since base contact is checked for again when they are due. I'd consider dropping it, or changing it to implant attack (which won me more than one game so far)

Extended carapace is a mandatory upgrade for warriors! It doubles your resilience against bolters for almost no points.
Leaping warriors also always should have flesh hooks, they are a great deal. Initiative adrenal glands are almost mandatory too. Toxin sacs and weapon skill adrenal glands aren't that expensive either. Heck, considering the base cost of a leaping warrior with must-have upgrades almost all biomorphs are cheap.

I strongly dislike shooty warriors, but if those swarm warriors work for you, then that's fine. My guess would be that they'll fail you horribly though, at least against marines.

The infestagaunts are fine, toxin sacs might be worth considering if you go against T4 stuff.
Swarmagaunts are commonly called spinegaunts...gener ally scythegaunts (no upgrades and scything talons instead of spinefists)  are more effective though.

Those executioner warriors are interesting...keep them faaaar away from the enemy. In case of these extended carapace might not be necessary, as most weapons with a sufficient range to hit them will have AP4 or better anyway, but if you have some points to spare you could take it nevertheless, just to be sure.

Some lash whips mutants will be priceless.

jwu

Offline -Makenshi-

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Re: TMC-less 2k 'Nid List
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2004, 04:55:42 PM »
totally forgot about the extended carapce ^_^

ill try to fit that in, as for the others im trying to keep thigns farily cheap as its supposed to be a swarming list hence the infest/swarm names

if i give the two non-shooty warrior types then they will cost 41pts and 31pts, i could probably fit hose in

also i'll change give the HQs flesh hooks and implant making them 40pts, a nice roudn number ^_^

why the lash whips?
« Last Edit: December 15, 2004, 04:56:50 PM by silverburner »
Quote from: IainC
Because spamming the hotkey for a Deathknight's weapon in WoW is precisely the same as learning to use a sword in real life. That's why when Kendo grandmasters fight, they just stand there shouting keystroke combos at each other.

Offline Arcas

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Re: TMC-less 2k 'Nid List
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2004, 05:03:58 PM »
Warriors are insanely vulnerable against power fists, and most models with power fists have only two (termies) or three attacks (sarges). Lash whips no longer requirebase contact, so *a lot* of enemy models are affected by them, albeit the precise range of effect is disputable. However, at the cost of only one attack (one less set of scything talons) you can take away plenty of enemy attacks, and even halve the number of power fist attacks of termies or normal attacks of assault marines. It's insanely effective at a low price.

Lash whips are potential matchwinners.

jwu

Offline -Makenshi-

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Re: TMC-less 2k 'Nid List
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2004, 05:44:31 PM »
revised list:

Species'
1. Biovore (HS)
2. Infestation Warriors (Basic+Leaping+Flesh Hooks+Implant Attack+Extended Carapace+Scything Talons+Rending Claws)=40pts/model (HQ/E)
3. Swarm Warriors (Basic+Extended Carapace+Deathspitter+Rending Claws)=31pts/model (HQ/E)
4. Infestagaunts (Basic+Leaping+Scythign Talons+Adrenal Glands(I))=10pts/model (T)
5. Swarmagaunt (Basic+Spinefist)=5pts/model (T)
6. Executioner Warrior (Basic+Wings+Enhanced Senses+Venom Cannon+Scything Talons=50pts/Model (HQ/FA?)

note-im not sure if No.6 is HQ/FA or HQ/HS, it doesnt really make a difference in this case as i could fit it in either but if some1 could clear it up that would help ^_^

=HQ=
(x2) 4 Infestation Warriors
1w/ Lash Whip Instead Of Scythign Talons
=326pts (163/Brood)

=E=
(x2) 4 Swarm Warriors
=248pts (124/squad)

=T=
(x3) 24 Infestagaunts
1 Hive Node
=750pts (250/squad)

(x2) 23 Swarmagaunts
1 Hive Node
=250pts (125/squad)

=FA=
(x2) 3 Executioner Warrrors
=300pts (150/squad)

=HS=
3 Biovores
2w/ Poison Mines
1w/ Frag
=154pts

=TOTAL=
=1997pts
Quote from: IainC
Because spamming the hotkey for a Deathknight's weapon in WoW is precisely the same as learning to use a sword in real life. That's why when Kendo grandmasters fight, they just stand there shouting keystroke combos at each other.

Offline Arcas

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Re: TMC-less 2k 'Nid List
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2004, 05:52:30 PM »
I'd strongly recommend initiative adrenal glands for the close combat warriors, and eventuelly toxin sacs too. Personally my warriors get the full statline upgrade, but if you want to use either toxin sacs or WS glands, then  toxin sacs are often better, as they work against vehicles too. On the other hand, the effect of WS glands is better if you fight WS4 T3 opponents.

The winged venom cannon warriors are heavy support, as explained on page 38 of the codex.

jwu

Offline -Makenshi-

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Re: TMC-less 2k 'Nid List
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2004, 06:05:33 PM »
i dont want to kit out my warriors, id rather try to swarm it

the reason i asked was because i thought i saw something saying otherwise in an FAQ or something

cheers for your help ^_^
Quote from: IainC
Because spamming the hotkey for a Deathknight's weapon in WoW is precisely the same as learning to use a sword in real life. That's why when Kendo grandmasters fight, they just stand there shouting keystroke combos at each other.

Offline Arcas

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Re: TMC-less 2k 'Nid List
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2004, 06:21:00 PM »
I see your point...but considering the price of leaping warriors these upgrades are a steal. At the expense of only two of your 72 leaping gaunts you can equip your whole HQ warrior squad with WS5. At the cost of two infestagaunts and one swarmagaunt you can upgrade them to S5. I think these upgrades will be worth five of your gaunts. I5 is even more useful (and cheaper)!, and best used in combination with the others.
5pts worth of upgrades for an already 40pts expensive model will increase your punch against marines by ~25%, at a relative cost of only ~12.5%. Initiative glands are even more cost effective.


jwu

Offline Hivemind

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Re: TMC-less 2k 'Nid List
« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2004, 06:24:58 PM »
In answer to your question on no. 6: those warriors would be HS only - see the chart on pg 38 of the codex.  

Your list looks strong, but I'd second the suggestions that Archon Astaroth made.  Extended carapace on your CC warriors is important for surviving the small arms fire they'll have to face when approaching the enemy.  Lash whips have been significantly improved in 4th Ed, making the inclusion of just 1 or 2 in each brood a great asset.

While I can understand the desire to keep your units cheap you might consider giving the CC warrior broods enhanced I at the very least.  Without Catalyst you'll need a good initiative to get in all your CC attacks, and there are significantly fewer models who can beat I 5.  
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Offline -Makenshi-

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Re: TMC-less 2k 'Nid List
« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2004, 09:59:38 AM »
another revision:

Species'
1. Biovore (HS)
2. Infestation Warriors (Basic+Leaping+Flesh Hooks+Implant Attack+Both Adrenal Glands+Toxin Sacs+Extended Carapace+Scything Talons+Rending Claws)=46pts/model (HQ/E)
3. Swarm Warriors (Basic+Extended Carapace+Deathspitter+Rending Claws)=31pts/model (HQ/E)
4. Infestagaunts (Basic+Leaping+Scythign Talons+Adrenal Glands(I))=10pts/model (T)
5. Swarmagaunt (Basic+Spinefist)=5pts/model (T)
6. Executioner Warrior (Basic+Wings+Enhanced Senses+Venom Cannon+Scything Talons=50pts/Model (HS)

=HQ=
(x2) 4 Infestation Warriors
1w/ Lash Whip Instead Of Scythign Talons
=374pts (187/Brood)

=E=
(x2) 4 Swarm Warriors
=248pts (124/squad)

=T=
(x3) 21 Infestagaunts
1 Hive Node
=660pts (220/squad)

(x2) 24 Swarmagaunts
1 Hive Node
=260pts (130/squad)

=HS=
(x2) 3 Executioner Warrrors
=300pts (150/squad)

3 Biovores
2w/ Poison Mines
1w/ Frag
=154pts

=TOTAL=
=1996pts

ok then, i took your advice and beefed up my leaping warriors, you were right, 6pts for +1 S,Ws and I is a steal considering its just over two infestagaunts/upgrade

thanks for your help ^_^
Quote from: IainC
Because spamming the hotkey for a Deathknight's weapon in WoW is precisely the same as learning to use a sword in real life. That's why when Kendo grandmasters fight, they just stand there shouting keystroke combos at each other.

 


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