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Offline Partninja

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #500 on: June 2, 2017, 05:38:21 AM »
We played 1000pts using Patrol Detachments, so no command points.

It was my understanding from reading that section of the rules, that just being battle forged gave you 3 command points. The patrol detachment just doesn't offer further command points.

One thing I haven't seen is a ruling on unit types. Do bikes or jetpacks for example get to fire heavy weapons on the move without a reduced BS? The same goes for vehicles. I have a feeling a lot of things aren't going to be as accurate on the move, and why the Shuriken Cannon for Eldar, as an example, has been moved to an assault weapon.
« Last Edit: June 2, 2017, 05:42:23 AM by Partninja »

Offline Fenris

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #501 on: June 2, 2017, 06:22:52 AM »
@Partninja: Shuriken cannon has been an assault weapon for eldar for several editions now.

Some vehicle upgrades allows them to not get a penalty when shooting heavy weapons. Bikes still suffers from it AFAIK, so those shurican bikes does not seem bad at all do they? ;)
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Offline Lord of Winter and War

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #502 on: June 2, 2017, 07:09:44 AM »
We played 1000pts using Patrol Detachments, so no command points.

It was my understanding from reading that section of the rules, that just being battle forged gave you 3 command points. The patrol detachment just doesn't offer further command points.

One thing I haven't seen is a ruling on unit types. Do bikes or jetpacks for example get to fire heavy weapons on the move without a reduced BS? The same goes for vehicles. I have a feeling a lot of things aren't going to be as accurate on the move, and why the Shuriken Cannon for Eldar, as an example, has been moved to an assault weapon.

Well amphetamine parrot, we missed that then. Probably for the best to leave out command points when learning.

If units don't suffer the -1 to move and shoot, it'll be on their data sheet. The core rules are just game mechanics. Anything special about units and types is on their data sheet.

Shuirken cannons have always been assault weapons though.


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Offline Partninja

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #503 on: June 2, 2017, 07:59:49 AM »
Wow, guess I never payed attention to that haha. Didn't matter before though as everything that could take one, even if it was heavy, could move and fire it anyway without a problem.

Sucks for Guardians, as their platform no longer gives them the ability to move and fire heavies (at least at full BS). It also now makes a lot of vehicles unappealing to me..
« Last Edit: June 2, 2017, 08:02:57 AM by Partninja »

Offline Wyddr

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #504 on: June 2, 2017, 09:04:18 AM »
Sucks for Guardians, as their platform no longer gives them the ability to move and fire heavies (at least at full BS). It also now makes a lot of vehicles unappealing to me..

Good! I've been scratching my head for efficient ways to kill Wave Serpents for days now and still haven't gotten a satisfactory answer beyond "shoot them with all of the things."

Killersquid: Did you guys play with any Large Models (vehicles, monsters, etc.)? One of the things I'm most curious about is how armies are able to cope with 6-12 wound, T6+ beasties with space marine armor. I keep running the numbers, and everything besides Lascannons seem to suck at taking out such targets.

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #505 on: June 2, 2017, 09:36:16 AM »
Sucks for Guardians, as their platform no longer gives them the ability to move and fire heavies (at least at full BS). It also now makes a lot of vehicles unappealing to me..

Good! I've been scratching my head for efficient ways to kill Wave Serpents for days now and still haven't gotten a satisfactory answer beyond "shoot them with all of the things."

Killersquid: Did you guys play with any Large Models (vehicles, monsters, etc.)? One of the things I'm most curious about is how armies are able to cope with 6-12 wound, T6+ beasties with space marine armor. I keep running the numbers, and everything besides Lascannons seem to suck at taking out such targets.

These were our lists

Harlequins

Troupe master
Shadowseer
3 squads of 5 troupes
Starweaver
Solitaire
Squad of 3 skyweavers

Necrons

Special character cyptek with the man legs (forget his name)
10 man warrior squad
Squad of immortals
6 wraiths
6 tomb blades
Ghost arch

The ghost arc is tough, but my Harlequins chewed through it pretty quick. I had a lot of weapons with ap which reduced it's save and Harlequins kiss do d3 damage. I in my second game I killed it in two turns, but it took a bit of effort.

It was neat how it got weaker as it took wounds. Slower, amphetamine parrot with a worse ballistic skill.

My star weaver is a bit tougher too. Took probably double the firepower to kill it, but it died both games.

Stats removed for reasons previously discussed - Iris.
« Last Edit: June 2, 2017, 10:48:25 AM by Irisado »
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Offline Partninja

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #506 on: June 2, 2017, 10:18:59 AM »
Sucks for Guardians, as their platform no longer gives them the ability to move and fire heavies (at least at full BS). It also now makes a lot of vehicles unappealing to me..

Good! I've been scratching my head for efficient ways to kill Wave Serpents for days now and still haven't gotten a satisfactory answer beyond "shoot them with all of the things."

Killersquid: Did you guys play with any Large Models (vehicles, monsters, etc.)? One of the things I'm most curious about is how armies are able to cope with 6-12 wound, T6+ beasties with space marine armor. I keep running the numbers, and everything besides Lascannons seem to suck at taking out such targets.

What do Guardian "nerfs" have to do with killed Serpents exactly? Honestly curious. Or was that just a separate thought?

Offline Wyddr

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #507 on: June 2, 2017, 10:27:19 AM »
Oh, sorry--the quote didn't parse quite the way I meant it to. I was mostly referring to the last bit:

Quote
It also now makes a lot of vehicles unappealing to me.

If you don't want to bring them, that's quite all right by me.  ;D

Killersquid

Hmmm...a unit of dudes all doing D3 wounds takes 2 turns to kill a transport. That's...not encouraging.

Worried on how dangerous this is going to make mechanized lists, is all. I kinds foresee a return to the bad old days of 5th Edition and the Ridiculously Tough Rhino.

Offline Lord of Winter and War

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #508 on: June 2, 2017, 11:10:47 AM »
I had only 5 man squads, and was wounding on 5's, so I wasn't really using tools meant to kill vehicles.


The vehicle was a huge chunk of points too. Pretty much all vehicles in the game went up 30-50% in points. Landraiders are nearly 400pts now.

Drop pods tripled in price, and rhinos doubled in cost. So vehicles are more durable for sure, but they are wayyy more expensive.

Also, after wounding the ghost arch, it was moving at under half speed and it's bs dropped by 2 points, so it's not like it was fully effective the whole time.
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Offline Wyddr

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #509 on: June 2, 2017, 11:15:39 AM »
Thousand Sons Preview Up

My short reaction is this: Magnus! (everybody else sucks)

Like, I think the All is Dust rule is cool and fluffy, but it isn't going to save the hyper-slow rubrics from fiery death, especially not now that their invul save took a hit.

The Aspiring Sorcerer's ability is an utter joke (talked about this already).

I think to some extent I'm going to need to see how much everything costs to field, but everything I've seen so far implies that the Ksons still cannot kill vehicles and psychic power continues to be pretty terrible. In this past edition, it was hyper complex and unreliable, but at least it did actual work when it decided to function. Now? Both modestly unreliable and offensively weak. Having trouble seeing myself build an army where psychic power is key to success.

EDIT: All that said, if Tzaangors get magically better and I can field more guys, you might seem me taking a Ksons force that doesn't really need Psychic power to function. Seems...contrary to fluff, but I've done it before in 4th Edition.
« Last Edit: June 2, 2017, 11:28:29 AM by Wyddr »

Offline Irisado

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #510 on: June 2, 2017, 12:30:22 PM »
They are still not giving us a complete picture though, so I'm reserving judgement at this stage about psychic powers and the effectiveness of Thousand Sons as a whole.  I will say, at this juncture, that I do not like the emphasis being placed on Magnus the Red.  I can just imagine him being fielded by one and all, and that would be disappointing for me.  To be honest, I'm not a fan of Primarchs being an option in 40K.
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Offline Partninja

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #511 on: June 2, 2017, 12:39:41 PM »
Oh, sorry--the quote didn't parse quite the way I meant it to. I was mostly referring to the last bit:

Quote
It also now makes a lot of vehicles unappealing to me.

If you don't want to bring them, that's quite all right by me.  ;D

Killersquid

Hmmm...a unit of dudes all doing D3 wounds takes 2 turns to kill a transport. That's...not encouraging.

Worried on how dangerous this is going to make mechanized lists, is all. I kinds foresee a return to the bad old days of 5th Edition and the Ridiculously Tough Rhino.

It's not just Serpents for me, it's all of them honestly. My BA army is/was based around vehicles with CC units to support. This will be VERY difficult now.

Offline Wyddr

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #512 on: June 2, 2017, 12:53:13 PM »
They are still not giving us a complete picture though, so I'm reserving judgement at this stage about psychic powers and the effectiveness of Thousand Sons as a whole.  I will say, at this juncture, that I do not like the emphasis being placed on Magnus the Red.  I can just imagine him being fielded by one and all, and that would be disappointing for me.  To be honest, I'm not a fan of Primarchs being an option in 40K.

Yeah, I'm probably not ever fielding Magnus, not the least reason being I think the model is silly looking (nipple horns are stupid).

I know we haven't seen all the powers, but taking a look at the Eldar ones gives us *some* idea. Doom/Guide/Fortune are all the same, basically, but are only going to go off 50% of the time (75% with Magic Eldar Shenanigans). The Heretical discipline leaked also looks pretty damned awful (I'm sorry, I'm just not that impressed by re-rolling 1s on anything worse than a 3+, and even then...). Throw in the fact that the Tzeentch Lore is pretty much always the *worst* lore (7th Ed Daemons Expansion excepted), I have low expectations.

What I probably have to look forward to are a couple crappy "light you on fire" powers that randomly malfunction on a 4+ and some stupid thing that lets my sorcerer either get a +1 Attack or take a Mortal Wound. Screw that noise. 

Offline Lord of Winter and War

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #513 on: June 2, 2017, 01:39:09 PM »
They are still not giving us a complete picture though, so I'm reserving judgement at this stage about psychic powers and the effectiveness of Thousand Sons as a whole.  I will say, at this juncture, that I do not like the emphasis being placed on Magnus the Red.  I can just imagine him being fielded by one and all, and that would be disappointing for me.  To be honest, I'm not a fan of Primarchs being an option in 40K.


Oh man, I think Primarch's are super cool. Magnus is not as much of an auto-take as he was before. He's been way toned down from 7th.

Thousand Sons are pretty good. Their guns all have great AP, and they are super durable against small arms. Sorcerers will be casting Smite to do mortal wounds here and there. They are pretty nice.

I find from what I've looked at so far, all units look pretty cool and useful.


Wyddr, check your PM :)
« Last Edit: June 2, 2017, 01:50:16 PM by Killersquid »
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Offline Wyddr

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #514 on: June 2, 2017, 02:02:45 PM »
Wyddr, check your PM :)

Thanks for that, Killersquid!

Given the REDACTED that you gave me, I can cautiously change my tone from pessimistic to cautiously optimistic. The Tzeentch powers (if that's what those were) are fairly handy and most of the troops got a bit cheaper (I think). Jury's still out on Tzaangors. 

Also, if I'm understanding what you told me about All Is Dust correctly, does that mean Dmg 1 weapons can't hurt Scarab Occult Termies? Or is there still a "rule of 1" in the game?

Offline Lord of Winter and War

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #515 on: June 2, 2017, 02:08:44 PM »
There is a rule of 1. Only power that can be cast more then once a turn is smite, and 1's always fail. But, a scarab terminator in cover has a 2+ save against everything but ap-3.

It also effects all save throws, so Inv would be improved too. A lot of attacks are damage 1, so they are tough cookies.

The powers are generic chaos powers. All csm sorcerers can use them.

Also remember. Model cost doesn't include weapons, you need to pay for all weapons too, although usually for core units it's super cheap or free.

Tzangors would be great cheap screening units to be a buffer against assault armies.
« Last Edit: June 2, 2017, 02:11:59 PM by Killersquid »
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Offline Wyddr

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #516 on: June 2, 2017, 02:17:40 PM »
Tzangors would be great cheap screening units to be a buffer against assault armies.

This is why I don't think they're entirely awful. Also for the fact that they don't now cost any more to give them pistols and chainswords.

In going through the point values, it does look like rubrics and their sorcerer are cheaper to the tune of about 30-40-ish points, which is huge. Vehicles are a lot more pricey, but justifiably so.

Big news: Ahriman! Finally, after *how* many editions of Ahriman, he finally, finally costs about as much as he is worth (options included). Took them freaking long enough.

Offline Lord of Winter and War

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #517 on: June 2, 2017, 02:44:33 PM »
I've been basically looking through the index's and it's really easy to see any units included in a list these days.

I'm really looking forward to getting in more games with my Harlequins and trying larger games. Points are going to fill up quick once I add in my transports.

Also itching to use my 6 obliterators lol.
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Offline Partninja

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #518 on: June 2, 2017, 03:45:54 PM »
Does vehicle facing matter anymore as far as the weapons? Or are we doing 360s for days? I haven't seen anything about that from the pages that were shown.

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Re: Eighth Edition News
« Reply #519 on: June 2, 2017, 04:31:04 PM »
Does vehicle facing matter anymore as far as the weapons? Or are we doing 360s for days? I haven't seen anything about that from the pages that were shown.
From what I've seen, no.  Now come the days of land raiders firing 4 lascannons and I heavy bolters from the corner of their tracks!
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