Topic: Eighth Edition News

[Fenris]

Now that's actually really nice, I like the new morale rules a lot. 

 Firstly it takes away disagreements on wether a unit did take a morale test or not. And if a player has started his own turn, it's too late to claim any morale tests should be taken by the other player.
Just like in monopoly if you fail to cash in your rent before you roll the dices, no rent can be charged. Opportunity missed!

 Secondly armour does not impact wether you loose a model or not, a fleeing terminator runs away just as much as a grot once they have failed their Ld test. In previous Combat resolution morale tests, good armour was a thing.

"Thirdly?"(might even split into two reasons) small elite units does not run away just because they lost a percentage of their unit, it also saves some calculations, and removes morale optimized unit sizes.

"Fourthly?"Single models left as stragglers not fleeing, by default becomes immune to morale.

Sure elite units may loose extra models, but that just make the Ld value just as important as toughness or armour save to stay on the board.

[Wyddr]

I like it too. I do wonder how (and if) the old "And They Shall Know No Fear" thing will apply to various marine factions. If it doesn't reassert itself, it will be weird playing in a world where Astartes might run off.

[Calamity]

Does this mechanic work well in AoS? Could some of you AoS players give a little insight please?

It works very well!  In AoS units gain +1 to their bravery (leadership) for every ten models in the unit, lessening the impact on big units of weaker troops.  Hopefully 40k will use this too.  They also gain bonuses to bravery for having banners.  And it's not always just +1

The only thing you need to bare in mind is remembering how many casualties a unit suffered in a turn.  It's not too hard though. 

And it's so easy just plucking a model or two away rather than going through the whole rigmarole of moving a retreating unit back only to regroup it immediately.  Straight to the point! 

[angel of death 007]

I like the morale it is very similar to the fearless approach of 5th edition which worked well.   Now it will streamline morale even more which definately was a great idea.   

I see nothing but good things from this change.

[Dread]

Deathwing running,hmm,that sounds strange. Wraith lords running away, wierd. Talos, hmm. Wraiths, dreadnaughts, just anything that is fearless now, ogie bogie strange. Not sure that's gonna make sense but I guess if it works, we shall see. I think "shall know no fear" should just allow unmodified ld tests, but that's just me.

[Fenris]

I think something like fearless units don't add the D6 and ATSKNF models add +1 instead of the D6.
That means you would have to kill 7/10 marines, to get one marine to flee, without buffs.
Considering full size marine units both get to "combat squad" and additional special weapons, and sometimes even a free transport, there is nothing unfair about it IMHO.

Fearless models that become casualties might just have become the victims of being buried in corpses, so they can't keep up.

[Katamari Damacy]

I don't think Dreads and Monstrous Creatures will have to take that sort of Ld test, because "models lost" not wounds. So I'm guessing they're pretty much "fearless" anyways.

When it comes to multiwound models (i.e. Terminators), you'd still count the models lost, not the wounds. So a squad of 5 Termies could lose 4 wounds (2 models) and still be immune to the Lead test since they have Ld8 (6+2=8). At least that's what I read into it.

Does this mechanic work well in AoS? Could some of you AoS players give a little insight please?

It works very well!  In AoS units gain +1 to their bravery (leadership) for every ten models in the unit, lessening the impact on big units of weaker troops.  Hopefully 40k will use this too.  They also gain bonuses to bravery for having banners.  And it's not always just +1

This sounds really interesting! The only downside I see is that 40k used to have rather small unit sizes compared to WHFB but it makes a lot of sense for amies that can field large units of 20+ models.

Looking at Space Marines with Ld7, would they - in AoS - get Ld8 when taken as a unit of 10 or would that require them to be 20 man strong?

[Irisado]

I think that we all need to look at morale for 40K differently from now on.  In the past, it has been perceived as units falling back.  For certain units, it will have to be understood as them being dragged down, crumbling to dust (e.g. Thousand Sons) or just being overwhelmed in some other way, rather than losing the will to stand and fight.  That's the way I'm making sense of it in my mind at least.

For anyone who wants to see the comparisons with Age of Sigmar rules, the best place to look is here.  They are free, so it's easy to find the answers and removes the need to quote them here, which is preferable to avoid in any case .

[Cavalier]

Pretty shocking rules for morale! I was stunned in fact... had to read it a couple times to see if I understood it properly. All of a sudden morale is of HUGE importance which I like... but I have to admit playing with an Aspect Host for so long I never even though about morale for the most part. Looks like I better start considering it.

Very happy to see them mention the now increased importance of units which can effect morale... like the Hemlock for the Eldar which was good in 7th edition, but the Mindshock pod was of minimal value unless your were running a Leadership Shenanigan list. Now it'll be helpful in all situations... even more so if you are running a Leadership Shenanigan list which I'm presuming they are trying to nurture. From FW to GW it was a consistent theme across all the Eldar factions, Corsair, Craftworld, Dark Eldar and Harlequins. I hope it continues...

Fascinating stuff and I'm in love with the simplicity of it... though I'm sure it'll be brutal when it backlashes against in you in game. Can't wait to see how everything shakes out. Fantastic stuff so far

EDIT: Also hopefully this a good portent for the resurgence of Sniper units. I've got 15 Rangers (10 fully painted) I want them to be wreaking morale havoc across the battlefield. Fingers crossed!

[Wyddr]

With each of these updates, I keep trying to predict which army I'm going to play in 8th. At the moment, I can't quite decide.I feel like so *many* armies will be viable again!

[Roy]

This is actually exciting news. 

It might even lure me back to 40K.

How long have we been advocating for a living rulebook? At least a decade..

[The GrimSqueaker]

That's gonna leave a mark.
New Warhammer 40,000: The Great Rift – Warhammer Community

Least the time line has staggered forward a bit.

[magenb]

I'm not a massive fan of this morale system

Yeah I hear you, Moral should reduced effectiveness (-1 WS/BS etc) or running away scared, or in IG case, the officer shooting men lol, these make sense. Having hardened warriors literally getting scared to death on battlefield is just daft.

[The GrimSqueaker]

Morale, not moral, the troops aren't stopping and considering whether they're the baddies during the middle of battle. Because the answer for each and every army is - yes you are.

The article itself states that the troopers aren't just sitting there amphetamine parrotting themselves in terror hoping the space easter bunny will pop over and make everything okay again. The lost models are also taking care of the wounded, the dead, dying from shock, becoming combat ineffective due to whatever, and also retreating from the area of operation. Broaden your imagination, grasshopper.

[Irisado]

Yeah I hear you

Just to clarify, even though it's far from my favourite aspect of the rule changes, I understand why they have a adopted the system which they have and it makes more sense for 40K than for Age of Sigmar in my opinion.  I will get used to it, but it is going to feel strange for a while.

[Saim-Dann]

Every edition does, Irisado. We become used to a set of rules for 3/4 maybe even 5 years. Even the slightest shift in rules will feel strange. 

[Wyddr]

Every edition does, Irisado. We become used to a set of rules for 3/4 maybe even 5 years. Even the slightest shift in rules will feel strange.

To be fair, this is the biggest change in the rules since the 2nd/3rd Ed transition. Invalidating every codex hasn't happened since the late 1990s.

Overall, I'm looking forward to it, but this is a major paradigm shift. The game is going to wind up upended in ways we can't quite guess at yet.

[The GrimSqueaker]

New Warhammer 40,000: Battle-forged Armies – Warhammer Community

What ever you do Irisado, don't look at the lower left symbol for the battlefield roles...

[Irisado]

That's gonna leave a mark.
New Warhammer 40,000: The Great Rift – Warhammer Community

Least the time line has staggered forward a bit.

I'll say.  That's one substantial rift.  I'm much happier with this partial reshaping of the universe rather than the total overhaul (destruction) of the old Warhammer Fantasy map though.  At least rifts in space make for a convincing and, in my opinion, a more compelling narrative.  Warhammer 40,000 did need to move forward a bit too, as it had become too static for my tastes.

New Warhammer 40,000: Battle-forged Armies – Warhammer Community

What ever you do Irisado, don't look at the lower left symbol for the battlefield roles...

I was getting excited when they said that formations had vanished.  I'm trying to erase that lower left symbol from my mind .  That said, it could have been worse.  I'm not sure that I've fully understood this detachment concept.  Is it detachments within an army or is it the whole army?  I will have to re-read it again later. 

[Fenris]

So flyers are in, but not fortifications 
I wonder if we may have some units moved to the flyer section, that are not currently flyers, but obviously has flight capabilities. Like Razor flocks?

Intresting that there is more HQ choices in these detachments, than currently. Maybe HQ choices may become more of a liability than buffs.