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Author Topic: 2000 Hochland vs High Elves - help please!  (Read 2364 times)

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Offline Fealhach

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2000 Hochland vs High Elves - help please!
« on: February 14, 2013, 07:50:54 AM »
Hi,

My first serious battle in about 13 years is this Saturday against a friend's new High Elf army. I know the core of his force will be from 2+ boxes of IoB figures, but nothing else. I've come up with a list with 38 points left to spend on more magic items, but I'd greatly appreciate any advice on optimising the list or equipping the characters.

Lords

Lvl 4 Wizard (He could be Shadows, Death, Celestial or Life)

Heroes

Captain: Armour of Meteoric Iron, great weapon, BSB

Lvl 1 Wizard: dispel scroll

Warrior Priest: Heavy armour, shield

Warrior Priest: Heavy Armour, great weapon

Master Engineer

Core

25 Swordsmen: full command
10 Militia detachment

30 Halberdiers: full command
10 Militia detachment

10 Inner Circle Knights: full command

10 Crossbowmen

10 Handgunners

Special

Mortar
Great Cannon
Helblaster Volley Gun

I've got an addtional 12 Knights, 16 Handgunners, 18 Spearmen and a handful each of halberdiers, command and crossbowmen and a mounted general, but that's it for list changes I'm afraid.

Offline Benis

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Re: 2000 Hochland vs High Elves - help please!
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2013, 08:03:24 AM »
The army will have to rely heavily on the two blocks but given that you don't really have another full regiment I guess that is how you will have to roll.

Some input:

The two Warrior Priests might not be entirely necessary, I would perhaps skip the one you plan to have in the swordsmen unit and add more handgunners. Speaking of Handgunners (and Crossbowmen), if you are not going for a command there is really no reason not to take them as detachments given the bonuses gained. The knights are also a bit of a problem; cavalry isn't overly impressive in this edition and Empire Knights are probably the worst of the lot (so if you played last during 5th edition you'll be right at home ;)) so I'm not sure how worthwhile it will be to load up on them and make them Inner Circle.

Basically if you can squeeze in the Handgunners somehow that would be good but otherwise I think your list is fine what with what you have in your collection.

Offline Fealhach

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Re: 2000 Hochland vs High Elves - help please!
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2013, 12:16:38 PM »
I can make up a militia unit of around 40 and drop the knights for more missile troops certainly. I was doubtful about putting the knights in after hearing how mediocre they are so I'd happily drop them.

Offline Irisado

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Re: 2000 Hochland vs High Elves - help please!
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2013, 01:31:54 PM »
You have similar problems to me, in that you don't have the resources to configure your Empire army for sixth edition.  That said, it's not all doom and gloom, and if you want to have any sort of mobility at all, I'd actually keep the Knights, in spite of their mediocrity, providing you can add a second unit.

If you can get two units of Knights working together (the larger Inner Circle unit, combined with a smaller unit for flank charges), then they become reasonable for attacking moderate sized blocks of average to poor infantry.  It would help if the Inner Circle Knights had a character with them though, such as a Captain, or even a Grand Master.

Wizard Lords don't make very good generals in my view, as the Empire need someone with more staying power, and someone who can inspire or bolster other units in some way, so you could find space for the Grand Master, or General of the Empire, with a swap here, and allocate more points to bolstering the Battle Wizard's capabilities instead.

You could also consider taking two Battle Wizards instead of the Wizard Lord.

Warrior Priests are helpful, but not to the extent that you definitely need two.  If you need to cut a few points, I agree with Benis that you could afford to remove one.

I agree about making the missile troop units detachments too.

I have very poor success with my own artillery, and I think that its better to spend more points on troops, and characters, than it is on the guns, so you could also look to make cuts here.  High Elves are still pretty expensive if I recall correctly, and are not likely to come in huge horde formations, so I'm not sure how useful the Mortar is likely to be.

Overall, I wouldn't say that dropping the Knights is the solution, as there are other ways to modify the list.  You could opt for mass missile fire in their place, but it's close combat that wins games of Warhammer, and I think that you would be asking too much of two small (for the Empire) infantry blocks to win you the battle on their own, so I would be tempted to keep the Knights, add a second unit, and then fiddle around with the list in other areas.

I hope that helps.
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Offline Benis

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Re: 2000 Hochland vs High Elves - help please!
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2013, 01:43:06 PM »
I have to disagree with you on two points, Irisado:

so you could find space for the Grand Master, or General of the Empire

I would not recommend a Grand Master at 2000 pts, if you field larger armies and have a second Lord (General of the Empire) that can act as the general then sure, but at this level the leadership bubble needs be in place and act as a support together with the Battle Standard to make sure no one leaves the battle early.

I have very poor success with my own artillery, and I think that its better to spend more points on troops, and characters, than it is on the guns, so you could also look to make cuts here.  High Elves are still pretty expensive if I recall correctly, and are not likely to come in huge horde formations, so I'm not sure how useful the Mortar is likely to be.

On the contrary: Mortars are exceptionally useful against High Elves, they are expensive per model but lack protection against low strength shooting so mortars is a fine way to thin out the upstuck bastards a bit. If you need to drop an artillery piece the cannon ought to be the first to go unless you are more or less sure that you will be facing a Dragon and even then the Helblaster and handgunners can be quite nasty against such targets too.

The rest is sound, I agree that you might not want to drop the knights, but you could lessen their cost a bit, unlike Irisado I would suggest lighten their load a bit by making them normal Knights and perhaps drop two knights, you will most likely loose at least one as you are closing in so no disruption will be achieved in any case.

Offline Irisado

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Re: 2000 Hochland vs High Elves - help please!
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2013, 02:03:18 PM »
I would not recommend a Grand Master at 2000 pts, if you field larger armies and have a second Lord (General of the Empire) that can act as the general then sure, but at this level the leadership bubble needs be in place and act as a support together with the Battle Standard to make sure no one leaves the battle early.

In the current list though, there's not really much of a leadership bubble to begin with, so I'm not seeing a great disadvantage to taking the Grand Master in that respect.  If it involved replacing the General, then I would agree, but since there isn't one in the list at present....  Of course, it might be a good idea to add a General of the Empire to bolster the infantry, and I wouldn't argue against that option.

Quote
On the contrary: Mortars are exceptionally useful against High Elves, they are expensive per model but lack protection against low strength shooting so mortars is a fine way to thin out the upstuck bastards a bit. If you need to drop an artillery piece the cannon ought to be the first to go unless you are more or less sure that you will be facing a Dragon and even then the Helblaster and handgunners can be quite nasty against such targets too.

Fair enough.  I'm more concerned about accuracy than anything else.  I would have thought that Elven infantry blocks were too small consistently hit enough models with the Mortar, but you have more recent playing experience against them than I do, so I'll take your word for it.

I do think that something needs to from the artillery section though, as it's chewing up too many points for a 2000 point army in my view.
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Offline Benis

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Re: 2000 Hochland vs High Elves - help please!
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2013, 02:32:38 PM »
In the current list though, there's not really much of a leadership bubble to begin with, so I'm not seeing a great disadvantage to taking the Grand Master in that respect.

Oh, I agree but I think if a change is to be had to the lord it ought to be for a General who is both cheaper and probably of more utility.

Fair enough.  I'm more concerned about accuracy than anything else.

he does field an Engineer though so that would help, even if he plans to go with the Helblaster it might be better to field him with the Mortar though the Helblaster is insane with the Engineer-re-roll. The cannon could probably go though for more units, that combined with one Warrior Priest should free off enough points to buy something decent.

 


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