Topic: Necrons (RTT, 1850)

[Wuestenfux]

A list for an upcoming RTT:

2x Destructor Lord w/ weave - 280

10 Tesla Immortals - 270
Night Scythe

10 Tesla Immortals - 270
Night Scythe

10 Warriors - 230
Night Scythe

3x 5 Wraiths - 525

3x Annihilation Barge - 270

Total: 1845 pts

Thoughts?

[Idaho]

Yep, it's good. The Destroyer Lords working together with the Wraiths is a personal favorite of mine also; very hard to counter especially with balanced lists or the (sigh) shooting focused tournament lists.

[Galef]

I would try to fing the points to put MSScarabs on the D-Lords.  They have won me so many combats by having an Uber-character hit his own unit.  Even if it doesn't hurt the unit, you nullify his atks.

The problem is to get the points.  Dropping 1 Wraith would get you to 1850 exactly.

But then would you run them like this:
5 Wraiths + D-Lord
5 Wraiths + D-Lord
4 Wraiths

---OR--- (and I like this better)
4 Wraiths + D-Lord
4 Wraiths + D-Lord
6 Wraiths

[Wuestenfux]

Thanks for the remarks.
MSS is a great piece of wargear. I haven't had much luck with it recently. So I'll leave it as it is now.

Another option would be to drop one DLord and add 10 footslogging Warriors for objective grabbing. How about this?

[Foxfire]

I'm not exactly an expert on the new codex just yet, but it strikes me that you have a lot of really killer anti-infantry, but not so much killer anti-tank.  I assume the wraiths with D-Lords are intended to handle that issue, though with so much ranged glancing-power available to the army, it seems odd to have brought none of them for the heavy stuff (though I grant you the Tesla cannons will do just fine against things like transports).

All in all, it feels off not to have ranged gauss, but the more I think about the setup you have, the better it looks.  Cheap infantry could pose a threat to your expensive Wraith units, but you brought boatloads of Tesla which should be able to kill off that threat where ever you need it to.  Big gunships could be a problem, especially when going toe to toe with Annihilation Barges, but those sorts of enemies are prime targets for the Wraiths and I expect they would be one of the first things to be targeted. 

The only thing that strikes me is that you have so much tesla in the army between the Nightscythes, Annihilation Barges, and Tesla Carbines, that you might consider switching out some Immortals so that your army has different options about what to bring to bear against different threats.  With the mobility afforded by your Nightscythes, I don't think getting a unit of Immortals within 12' of a target will be very difficult, and I imagine there will be situations where a unit that averages 2 glancing hits on AV 11-14 or 13 hits from rapid fire (instead of 8 or 9) against a close-up enemy will be more advantageous than dumping more tesla onto it.

Just my two cents, but I feel like switching a unit of Immortals to Gauss Blasters, if only for the sake of versatility, might help.  That said, redundancy has its merits too, and anything that can get done with tesla probably will in the list as-written.


Edit-> As for your suggestion, I'm not convinced that dropping a lord will help, if only because mobile CC is a big part of your win strategy.  You have a lot of transports on the table, which will hopefully give you enough late-game mobility to grab objectives without drawing from your CC 'fund.'

[bebe]

HQ: 2x 1 Destroyer Lord, Sempiternal Weave, Mindshackle Scarabs [320]

Troop: 10 Immortals, Tesla Carbines [170] Night Scythe [100]
Troop: 2x 10 Warriors [260] Night Scythe [200]

FA: 3x 5 Wraiths [525]

HS: 3x 1 Annihilation Barge, Tesla Cannon [270]

TOTAL POINTS - 1845

You lose very little with this change. It's a simple switch. MSS is still near mandatory on DLords for challenges and especially when not using whip coils. Honestly in a list like this thirty troops should be enough. You should pretty much destroy anything on the ground. It's rock hard. At 2000 I would add your extra troop on the ground - some warriors or immortals. I would add 9 warriors and 1 Wraith to the squad without a DLord. I would then add some warriors from from the scythe squads ( you don't really need ten) and start them on the table or in reserves.

[Wuestenfux]

Bebe: The list looks more closely to the list I played end of Dec. in an RTT, with 10 Immortals, 10+5+5 Warriors in NS, and only one DLord. Here three Necron players placed 1 to 3, me included. These armied dominated the tourney, 20 players.

What I wanted is some small changes, 10 Warriors replaced by 10 Immortals, 3 instead of 4 NS, and another DLord. In a challenge, mss help due to the low leadership. Whip coils are too costly and not really needed since weapons that hurt usually have initiative 1. I'll think about it trading 10 Immortals for 10 Warriors + 2 mss.

Foxfire: DLords and Wraiths can handle anything, almost, Assault Termies with th/ss could cause problems.

Tesla vs. Gauss: In the 6th ed, I've seen less fully mech armies, just semi-mech. In the games played so far, one units of Warriors rapidly firing their gauss weapons were enough to contribute to the death of a tank, by stripping off hull points. The problem with Warriors are AP 4 weapons like heavy bolters and assault cannons. Here Warriors don't have an armor save. This could put them into a world of hurt.

[bebe]

It is quite unfortunate how the game is now being played in 6ed. We stick all our troops in night scythes to ensure their survival, and wipe the table clean of our opponents troops. I don't care about baleflamers, stromravens and vendettas. If I'm in cc they cannot hurt me and if I'm in flyers I can evade them or destroy them. Flyers have one turn to do their maximum damage - turn two. After that, against a wraith/scythe list it is basically over by turn three. Sad really. Lists like yours thrive against everything but heavy terminator assault lists as you pointed out - wraiths just have a tough time against them - but that is another reason to use MSS. I'm finding 6ed to be frustrating but Necrons have definitely got better and playing them with my Tau/Ork or SW drop list never ends well for me now. It's funny to me how GK, the new Choas and IG/SW are touted as the top tournament lists online where experience and results show Necrons faring better in most cases and wraith wing being top of the heap.

[Wuestenfux]

In fact, the above list is rather straightforward to play. It cleans the house against most MEQ armies and shooty armies like IG or Tau also have a tough time.

I admit that I haven't played Orks or Nids so far. Against hordes it could be more challenging.

[bebe]

n fact, the above list is rather straightforward to play. It cleans the house against most MEQ armies and shooty armies like IG or Tau also have a tough time.

That's been my experience playing against it. You really cannot get to your troops easily and the end game is almost assured.

I admit that I haven't played Orks or Nids so far. Against hordes it could be more challenging.

I think it will handle hordes as well with all that dakka. You might have to adjust your tactics a bit. Bottom line is they cannot touch your troops and you can dakka theirs to oblivion.

[prot]

A lot of this is going to be personal preference, but why the heavy emphasis on Tesla Immortals?  Personally, I am splitting mine up to keep things like Landraiders, Pred's etc, on the defensive.

So that may be a personal decision, but I always split mine up.

I gotta add that if you take a squad of Gauss-mortals you conceivably could drop your 3rd Annihilation Barge. (I really do get that much use out of Gauss glance-o-rama. But usually mine are coming from waves of Arks.)

[Foxfire]

Hmm...I can see how you mean, Wuestenfux.  Wraiths may struggle with Land Raiders, but that's what the warscythes are for.  As for armor carrying big guns, Wraiths don't have to cluster together and their save probably keeps them on the table through most any hail of fire. 

I'd like to make a stronger case for Gauss, but I can't really argue with tourney results; if this type of list is taking the top 3 spots against your area's best players, it has to be doing a lot of things right.  I'm hoping to get a few more games in to round out my experience with this codex, so maybe I'll see more of its virtues as time goes on.

As for Assault Terminators, with so much mobility I imagine even those wouldn't pose too much of a problem?

[Chuckles, The Space Marine Clown]

The reason this list wrecks so much face isn't exactly that it can take a lot of flyers. Orks can take a lot of flyers, they don't seem to be dominant. It's the fact that, in addition to all the other good stuff in it, it can take several ridiculously good flyers. Night Scythes are insane, and get better with each new FAQ. Apparently nobody at GW design team plays Necrons...

[bebe]

The reason this list wrecks so much face isn't exactly that it can take a lot of flyers.

It can also take down a lot of flyers - 3 scythes and 3 barges have no issues with your opponents flyers. You cannot destroy troops in a scythe so necs have scoring troops always with RP. TYep, Yes IG have vendettas, a GK libbie in a strom raven is a problem, but overall necs lucked out with the best flyer spam list in 40k. It is too easy to insert 3-5 flyers in a list backed up by 2-3 fast barges.

[Chuckles, The Space Marine Clown]

I don't disagree with you, but again if Night Scythes were terrible this list wouldn't be nearly as good as it is, flyer spam or not. I think it's fairly clear (to me anyway) that although overall 6th ed has reduced a lot of the imbalances in the game overall, the rules for flyers (particularly flyers which are also transports) are way out of whack. Hopefully that will change, but it has to be said that Skyfire is not a rule that is showing up as often as a person might like in the new books we've seen, save on other flyers. Presumably so they can shift more flyer models

[bebe]

Agree with you entirely. We are coming from different perspectives though. I'm not a nec player ( I have some units I occasionally use as allies that I've picked upin trade.) I just sold all my chaos, got rid of some SM, sold all my nids and am focusing on my Tau/Ork and SQ/SM lists. So I look at how best to beat necron flyer spam. I haven't yet found an answer that is in any way consistent. Drop pods help, LFs with prewscience help. My Tau can field up to 9 broadsides. And still they survive and do damage when played by experienced nec generals. I just cannot handle more than 2-3 a game when the barges are also tormenting me. Too many targets.

[Chuckles, The Space Marine Clown]

SQ? Not familiar with that one... Do you mean SW, as in Space wolves?

Glad I'm not currently playing the game, and when I will start again I won't be playing in Tournaments for a good few months. Hopefully by the time I get to competitive play GW will have seen the error of their ways and redone the FAQ to make them less utterly broken.

To which end, I am going to email them.

[Wuestenfux]

Well, the three Necron armies coming on top in the December RTT were quite different:

Me: DLord, 15 Wraiths, 10+5+5 Warriors in NS, 10 Immortals in NS, 3 ABs
Max: 2 DLords, 15 Wraiths, 3x10 Immortals in NS, 2 or 3 ABs
Frank: DLord, 15 Wraiths, 3x10 Immortals, 2 Doom Scythes, 3 Spiders.

It was only me who had 4 Night Scythes. If the opponents do not field more than 3 flyers, 3 NS should suffice.

For instance, I battled IG with lots of troops, 3 Vendettas, and 3 Executioners. I managed to take down his 3 flyers and my Wraiths reached his front ranks along a flank almost unhindered depite the 3x3 plasma cannon shots. Needless to say they wrecked havoc and IG ended up with almost nothing left.

[prot]

SQ? Not familiar with that one... Do you mean SW, as in Space wolves?

Glad I'm not currently playing the game, and when I will start again I won't be playing in Tournaments for a good few months. Hopefully by the time I get to competitive play GW will have seen the error of their ways and redone the FAQ to make them less utterly broken.

To which end, I am going to email them.

While your at it, mention the IG flyers as I consider them an equally (slightly different) amazing unit.

On a related note, I faced a Nid opponent this week who had a flying Dakka Tyrant. Wow... I did not expect it, and that thing basically looked at my Nightscythes and they were gone.

[Wuestenfux]

On a related note, I faced a Nid opponent this week who had a flying Dakka Tyrant. Wow... I did not expect it, and that thing basically looked at my Nightscythes and they were gone.

How this?