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Author Topic: 1 Vs. 1 Model Duels  (Read 4778 times)

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Offline Gwaihir

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Re: 1 Vs. 1 Model Duels
« Reply #40 on: June 19, 2007, 08:59:17 PM »
The point of regenerate is to allow him to recover wounds suffered to nightbringer's shooting attacks.  He would face at least two shots before the charge possibly more if he is running away.

Can't argue with the toughness.  I don't claim to know tyranids all that well.  :P


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Offline Recluse

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Re: 1 Vs. 1 Model Duels
« Reply #41 on: June 19, 2007, 09:36:15 PM »
A Destroyer or Heavy Destroyer could take him out.  With their movement and range plus turbo boost the nightbringer could never catch them.  Do you have a turn limit? :P
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Offline Sanctjud

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Re: 1 Vs. 1 Model Duels
« Reply #42 on: June 19, 2007, 10:27:57 PM »
So, anything with 31" and greater weapons that can shoot on the move that are not str 4 and under would be good in a 1 on 1 duel with NB on a REALLY big table.

In smaller tables, where you'll eventually get cornered, turbo-boost is good then

So:

>30" Gun
>Str 4
Assault weapons (for foot soldiers)
Turbo-boost special rule.

We have destroyers, heavy destroyers, SM Landspeeders (hvy bolter, missile system), SM Bikers with the Assault Bike (hvy bolter), Eldar Falcon, ELdar Fire Prism, Eldar Vypers, D. Eldar Ravager, D. Eldar Raiders.

Things that don't 'tubro-boost' that apply to the rest of the options:

Tau HammerHead, Tyranid VenomCannon, Any Eldar unit that carries an EML, BL, SL, Dark Eldar would have the dark lance.  IG, SM, and Chaos have their plethora of weapons.

Really, NB's weakness is snipers, poison, rending, being 360 points, and phase out.  So in a 1 on 1 duel, with 0 necrons on the table, he'd phase out, ... but that be wishing for too much in a "friendly" character duel...
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Offline myles

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Re: 1 Vs. 1 Model Duels
« Reply #43 on: June 23, 2007, 11:31:34 PM »
I don't think being able to move 24" would be much help for vehicles against the NB on a small board. (At least non-vehicles would get a good invulnerable save for turboboosting.)  His range is 24" also, so if you're backed into a corner, even at full speed out of there that's at least one lascannon shot you'll have to eat every few turns. If it were a 4X4 table you'd never be able to get away, regardless of how fast you moved.

Not to mention that if you were backed into a corner I'm pretty sure (math: never one of my strengths :P) it would be geometrically impossible for you to get out of that corner without moving into assault range of the NB, so he could just stand there and shoot his lascannon at you all day long, daring you to try and escape. (Maybe if you kept moving in a circle?)

So unless we are playing either on a board of unlimited size or a very large board, I don't think that light fast units with just S5-S7 guns would be very good contenders against the NB. Stuff like Land Speeders, vypers, raiders, etc. can be taken off the list I think.
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Offline Sybarite24

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Re: 1 Vs. 1 Model Duels
« Reply #44 on: June 24, 2007, 01:27:06 AM »
how about an Archon?  agonizer wounding on 4+, 5 attacks with reroll misses, goes first, 2+ invulnerable save?
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Re: 1 Vs. 1 Model Duels
« Reply #45 on: June 24, 2007, 01:37:05 AM »
I don't know much about an archon, but unless it has a toughness of six, it's going down with the first hit the Nightbringer lands.  The Nightbringer ignores all saves of any kind, including invulnerable, and will instant kill most enemies with the offense to really do it damage.  The wounding on 4+ is nice, but speaking mathematically, you'll need an average of twenty hits, and it shouldn't live through the four rounds of combat necessary to deliver those.

Offline Rudolf

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Re: 1 Vs. 1 Model Duels
« Reply #46 on: June 24, 2007, 08:43:11 AM »
Aye, one hit on the Archon and he's a goner. The only thing that I see who could possibly threaten a C'Tan is one of the super-heavys from ForgeWorld. Like a Manta or a Hierophant. Statistically the Nightbringer would win over a Scythed Hierodule even though the Hierodule is more expensive points wise. Against a Hierophant you would probably lose but for those points you could have both C'Tans and they would drag the beast down pretty easy.

Going up against a Manta is just...wrong. Going up against any flyer would be wrong ::)

EDIT:// It just hit me, does a C'Tan's attacks count as "Lethal" on the "Wound Severity Table"? If it does, the Nightbringer would probably stand a chance against a 500+ points more expensive Hierophant...
« Last Edit: June 24, 2007, 08:54:08 AM by Rudolf »
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Offline myles

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Re: 1 Vs. 1 Model Duels
« Reply #47 on: June 24, 2007, 10:33:02 PM »
Actually, if you look at the rules for gargantuan creatures that are on FW's website, you'll see that the 'lethal weapons' category no longer exists. So it's impossible for the nightbringer's attacks to be considered lethal, as that's not a classification. (Granted I haven't looked at the Gargantuan creature rules in IAV4, and knowing FW's love of copy/paste... ::) Who can say what the most current rules ever are these days?)
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Offline Sanctjud

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Re: 1 Vs. 1 Model Duels
« Reply #48 on: June 25, 2007, 01:18:49 AM »
Abaddon?...his daemon weapon is I5 and if it hits, and NB fails his 4+ save, NB is "killed outright" not instant killed.  And Abaddon, can't be instant killed, but will not have his 4+ inv. save vs. NB, cause they ignore those too...

Str 5+ Force Weapons have a shot...even though slim.
Str 5+ Plaguesword..still slim.
Plaguebanner, roll a 6 and NB fails six 4+ saves....still slim.
Rending at I 5+, (rolling box cars like crazy)... still slim.

Really, you combat NB through Phase out, if not, lots of shooting in the form of snipers, ranged rending, str 8+ weapons, etc.




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Offline allconsuminghat

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Re: 1 Vs. 1 Model Duels
« Reply #49 on: June 25, 2007, 10:49:49 AM »
Asdrubael Vect should beat him. He can just stay out of combat and try to pop him with his 2 disintegrators and 1 dark lance. His mobility will easily keep him out of unwanted combat, but he can beat most other characters in combat anyway (lots of attacks, enemies need 6's to hit, and he's av11 in combat). Av14 from shooting should help protect him from the nightbringer's shooting attack. You could also just gang up on him in a mob.

Eldrad Ulthran is a great idea. Constantly doing 2 mind wars per turn at him, plus fortune to keep you alive with a rerollable 3++ save.
Abaddon has a small chance with his special sword thing... Anything with a force weapon has a small chance, like a GK grandmaster, 6's to wound though, even with +2 str. The nightbringer is pretty much the be all and end all of dueling though.
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Offline azore24

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Re: 1 Vs. 1 Model Duels
« Reply #50 on: June 25, 2007, 11:06:24 AM »
I would download the Harliquin codex and get an amazingly tooled-up Solitaire.  He is one of the most powerful 1v1 combat models with about 13 attacks on the charge and that shiny harliquin's kiss.  Especially with the codex:harliquin rules, that thing is a beast in CC with a holo-filed, Domino field, H-kiss, all the 'nades, power/rive blades, that teleporty thing, dread mask, flip belt, and more (plasma gun anyone?).  At least, thats what I'd do. :P
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Offline Rudolf

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Re: 1 Vs. 1 Model Duels
« Reply #51 on: June 25, 2007, 11:29:12 AM »
Myles - The rules on FW are a copy of the really old ones(2002 I think). "Lethal" is mentioned in IA4 and I think those rules are more up to date.

Sanctjud - Well Abaddon would have a 25% chance to kill the Nightbringer while the Nightbringer would have around 50-40% to kill him on the return strike.

Tenozuma - Even if AV14 will help for a while against the shooting, AV11 will not help for long against a monstrous creature with strenght 10. Asdrubael can't even hurt the Nightbringer in hand-to-hand. Why would they need 6s to hit? In hand-to-hand he fights like a dreadnaught. 4+ to hit for the Nightbringer and then it's an automatic penetration...

Azore24 - A solitare would indeed be dangerous. Perhaps the most dangerous anyone's come up with yet.
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Offline Sanctjud

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Re: 1 Vs. 1 Model Duels
« Reply #52 on: June 25, 2007, 01:34:14 PM »
Don't forget, NB ignores both armor and inv. saves.

Don't forget, Abaddon can't be instakilled, and calculating the averages, Abaddon has 25% chance to kill NB, and NB on average does 2.77 wounds. 

So, in 2 rounds of combat, NB will kill Abaddon, and Abaddon would have 50% chance to kill NB. Not great, but still doable.

Yea, a solitare with a d-field and venom like weapons has a chance ( you really wanna kill him in  one go), but if he gets hit he's gonna get smooshed.
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Offline Locarno

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Re: 1 Vs. 1 Model Duels
« Reply #53 on: June 28, 2007, 09:35:14 AM »
Quote
A solitare would indeed be dangerous. Perhaps the most dangerous anyone's come up with yet.

Hmm....a solitaire with a harlequin's kiss, a pistol and powerblades (for the extra attacks) could do some damage, but only if the Nightbringer allowed it. Like all Harlequins, the Nightbringer can do his best Caine-from-Kung-Fu impression and say 'I will not fight you', etheric tempest the S3 model away and then zap him to death with the lightning arc.

If he does let him charge....um....12 attacks, 8 hits, should be seven wounds with one potentially lethal wound, so there's a chance. Be warned that the Nightbringer will explode afterwards and this will kill the solitaire on a 2+.

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Offline allconsuminghat

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Re: 1 Vs. 1 Model Duels
« Reply #54 on: July 1, 2007, 08:20:38 AM »
I would download the Harliquin codex and get an amazingly tooled-up Solitaire.  He is one of the most powerful 1v1 combat models with about 13 attacks on the charge and that shiny harliquin's kiss.  Especially with the codex:harliquin rules, that thing is a beast in CC with a holo-filed, Domino field, H-kiss, all the 'nades, power/rive blades, that teleporty thing, dread mask, flip belt, and more (plasma gun anyone?).  At least, thats what I'd do. :P

The solitaire can get 12 attacks at the most. 4 base, + 2 CCW's, + powerblades = 6. Then you can get up to 6 more attacks from a perfect blitz attack. But the solitaire still has an almost negligible chance of killing the nightbringer in 1 turn of combat on his own, maybe if a friend of yours had already wounded him and such, otherwise he'll just instant-smush you... I think a fast, ranged model is where it's at, unless you can reliably gang up on him, which would be great.
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Offline Comely

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Re: 1 Vs. 1 Model Duels
« Reply #55 on: July 2, 2007, 03:30:19 PM »
How about eldrad fortuned 3++ saves guided attacks sure he only gets 2 but he wounds on 2+ the only problem  is th first time you fail that 3++ reroll you die

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Re: 1 Vs. 1 Model Duels
« Reply #56 on: July 2, 2007, 03:31:28 PM »
You don't get invulnerable saves against the Nightbringer in the first place, so fortune is quite useless, and Eldrad is quite dead.
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Offline Meecrob

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Re: 1 Vs. 1 Model Duels
« Reply #57 on: July 8, 2007, 09:26:29 PM »
I'm not quite sure what kind of ranged attack this guy has but I would go with Asdubrael Vect. You can very easily move 24" away on the first turn and just hover around indefinitely until you get your enemy killed. Will it be boring? Very. But would you destroy it? I'd think so.

Offline Sanctjud

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Re: 1 Vs. 1 Model Duels
« Reply #58 on: July 8, 2007, 10:39:57 PM »
NB moves 6" a turn and has a 24" LasCannon basically. On a regular gaming table, you are not gonna stay 36" away from NB indefinitley, he will get a chance to shoot at you, regardless if the shot does anything.  you will eventually be caught even if you turbo boost all over the table taking pot shots.

ANd yes, mobile long range high str guns are best.
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Offline Foxfire

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Re: 1 Vs. 1 Model Duels
« Reply #59 on: July 8, 2007, 11:54:34 PM »
Well, I think we're forgetting something when it comes to a C'tan involved in a duel with a mobile shooting unit.  You argue for the shooting unit having the board space to consistently stay more than 30' away from the Nightbringer, and that's fine, but you're just as likely to find a piece of terrain the Nightbringer can hide behind, thus denying any damage taken by such a unit.  It's a double-edged sword, a unit like that can be hidden from in turn, it doesn't work just one way.

 


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