Topic: Unbeaten biel-tan army list.

[sordwind]

  You can probably guess that tactics alter for different armies ,neither of these have been beaten and i have played a few games every week for the last few months.

1000 p

hq.1 farseer,fortune,witch blade,g.helm,runes of witnessing.
hq.2avater

t.1 8scorps,grenades,exarch scorps claw,grenades.
wave serpant,spirit stones,v.engines,bright lance.

t.2 9 banshees,exarch,exocutioner,acrobatic.
wave serpant,spirit stones,starcannon.

heavy.1 wraithlord,bright lance.
heavy.2 d-cannon

1500 points

hq.1 farseer,witch blade,g.helm,fortune.
hq.2avater, direavengar,diresword,distract,defend.
banshee,exocutioner,acrobatic.
scor[ion power claw

t.1 same as previous list

t.2 same as previous list + war shout

t.3 9 fire dragons,exarch burning fist,tank hunter,fire pike.
wave serpant,spirit stones,vectored engines, starcannons.

h.1 wraithlord with bright lance.

[EldarGOD]

 play me and see how that list goes...

[phobius_firehand]

wait.... is this an invitation for me to take your army apart...   sure thing....

First the 1,000 point army has very little support and even less that are good at killing at a range... You 2 lances and 1 starcannon are all that would be effective at a shootout against a good enemy.  This means armies such as tau would take you apart (at least if played well) simly by shooting your 2 WS the first turn and utterly destroying the rest of you (this could be acheived by simply using 4 broadsides and eventually taking the WS your entire army is dead since everything else takes at least a day or 2 to get to your enemy and by the time they do the kroot will hold em up long enough that you wont be able to assault the good stuff yet.... so I'd say tau could take it

Next theres the eldar vs. eldar

A Dark eldar army w/ incubi or a saim hann army (both very fast but one is good in cc while the other is good range wise) would be a hard opponent since the incubi are a mix between scorpions and banshees and the archon is really good
The saim hann could evade cc all together since they could have solid vypers and maybe a farseer on a bike

Most slow armies are pretty screwed against your list but faster armies will be able to (if the player has any tactics whatso ever) at least give you a run for your money... I myself would like to battle against you with my Biel tann and see how much ego you would have...
not trying to sound hypocritical or anything because your list is good you just didnt ask what to do with it so I decided to be as pecimistic as possible...   No hard feelings...

Well any way what you might want to do to the list is scrap the WL and add some dark reapers... They are some of the best range troops out there and getting them for troops is a big advantage (having a WL is also kinda unfluffy in an aspect army)

Other than that I usually have more on the court of the young king (which you could get by removing the d-cannons though they are pretty effective at scarin the enemy away you can get the same results from the court with some fire dragon exarchs

[Ranger Astheria]

Well I doubt that it's unbeatable but you may have yet to lose... if you really want a list that hasn't been beaten in about 50ish games I think... ask and I'll post my Biel-Tan...

It's definately not a bad list, and in 1000 points it should do admirably, although the wraithlord and d-cannons feel a little out of place... for the points you could get some vypers...

[sordwind]

Thanks for the suggestions, i have played loads of games vs tau and the big guns only have one chanc to shoot at me before the whole army is engaged. kroot first with scorps then the rest of the army is consolidated into. this completely distracts all of the opponents attention. so 1 or 2 turns later avater and waithlord(court as well) smash them again with saimm hann i am usually able to assualt the bulk quickly before picking of remaining scraps.same with de.

[Rasmus]

Pray you never face anything faster than you. Dark Elves could outmaneuver your transports, go for the kill on the slower units, and then surround your two Bansheegroups by turn four. Danger!
Nice list!

[Storm Weaver]

Try putting that army a table with 4 others and see how they do!!
My weekly foes are at 2kpt armies, and they play the following:
Tau, Space Marines, Chaos Marines, and  Saim-Haan
I play Beil-Tan 2k pt army and find that I am constantly changing my units around to the differenet objectives we have, but I do have almost 3.5k pt army to do this.
It keeps them on thier toes cause they dont know what I will come with the following week, and with this most excellent message board, my tactics are allways fresh!!!
I try not to play with any cheese cause the whine sucks.

[Colonel Twisting Shadow]

Well I doubt that it's unbeatable but you may have yet to lose... if you really want a list that hasn't been beaten in about 50ish games I think... ask and I'll post my Biel-Tan...

Um, could you?

-Angel

[Ranger Astheria]

Well some call it cheese, but bah, I just like my Reapers too much so I themed an army around em...  Just turned out that the army is so powerful that it just doesn't seem to lose.  It's 1700 points by the way, the gaurdians screen the reapers and shoot tanks while the Vypers hunt tanks and the reapers kill infantry.  Maugan Ra fires with the Reapers and provides a CC punch.  It is themed and if you want to scream cheese, well, that's your problem as I don't take this tournaments.

HQ
Maugan Ra (130)

Farseer (62)
Fortune, SP & CCW

Elites
13 Gaurdian Defenders (187)
2 Gaurdian Crew & Bright Lance
1 Warlock
Conceal, SP & CCW

13 Gaurdian Defenders (187)
2 Gaurdian Crew & Bright Lance
1 Warlock
Conceal, SP & CCW

3 Vypers (195)
Bright Lance

Troops
4 Dark Reapers (233)
1 Exarch
Missle Launcher; Fast Shot

4 Dark Reapers (233)
1 Exarch
Missle Launcher; Fast Shot

4 Dark Reapers (233)
1 Exarch
Missle Launcher; Fast Shot

4 Dark Reapers (233)
1 Exarch
Missle Launcher; Fast Shot

[Zaq]

It might have trouble with a 3 Whirlwind army as it can avoid the screen and go straight for the Reapers.

[sordwind]

hence the three vypers?

[FarseerAldruan]

one or 2 squads of deep strikers (termies) could really hurt, shooting with storm bolters, next turn shooting, then in assault.

[fonkin]

Well some call it cheese, but bah, I just like my Reapers too much so I themed an army around em...  Just turned out that the army is so powerful that it just doesn't seem to lose.  It's 1700 points by the way, the gaurdians screen the reapers and shoot tanks while the Vypers hunt tanks and the reapers kill infantry.  Maugan Ra fires with the Reapers and provides a CC punch.  It is themed and if you want to scream cheese, well, that's your problem as I don't take this tournaments.

HQ
Maugan Ra (130)

Farseer (62)
Fortune, SP & CCW

Elites
13 Gaurdian Defenders (187)
2 Gaurdian Crew & Bright Lance
1 Warlock
Conceal, SP & CCW

13 Gaurdian Defenders (187)
2 Gaurdian Crew & Bright Lance
1 Warlock
Conceal, SP & CCW

3 Vypers (195)
Bright Lance

Troops
4 Dark Reapers (233)
1 Exarch
Missle Launcher; Fast Shot

4 Dark Reapers (233)
1 Exarch
Missle Launcher; Fast Shot

4 Dark Reapers (233)
1 Exarch
Missle Launcher; Fast Shot

4 Dark Reapers (233)
1 Exarch
Missle Launcher; Fast Shot

Two words:  Imperial Guard.
Two more words:  Battle Cannon.  
I've run a few lists not too different from this one.  It's great against marines or other number-poor armies, but IG consistantly sweeps armies like this, unless they are assault guard or mechanized infantry.  

[Alexander Falcorian]

First, let me just get it out there and say "There is no such thing as an unbeatable list."  


Second, what size table do you play on? Are you using the TVR? Both of these would have a great effect on how the army does.

[Ranger Astheria]

I'm not claiming it's unbeatable.... it just hasn't lost yet...    But I'm sure it will some day...

Anyhoo, it's faced just about every army and doesn't have a problem usually, there are enough Vypers and BL's to go around and destroy enemy tanks, so ordance hasn't really been a problem, and Leman Russ battle tanks are directfire and have to shoot the gaurdian screen.  And whirlwind's AP hasn't bothered me as I get my armour saves anyway.

This list functions under TVR and TAR just fine.

I play on a 6 foot by 4 foot table or in other words standard size.

[kaldrin]

Well some call it cheese, but bah, I just like my Reapers too much so I themed an army around em...  Just turned out that the army is so powerful that it just doesn't seem to lose.
[\quote]

I wouldn't disagree with the fact that some will scream cheese. It's a nicely themed army, but one which I wouldn't really use.  I can see you've probably never played it often against a good blood angels player. I know one who absolutely crushed me when I used a similar tactic and army. It taught me the value of mind war and jetbikes on my farseers. Now I almost always have two.

[ahra]

you wouldnt stand a chance against my mates IG army, he has a baneblade super heavy tank lol

hmmmmm........some day my cobra will come  

[tokonyo]

If you played under the TVR you would have absolutely no chance against Tau. The scorpions and banshees would be shot up in one turn by the fire warriors, and everything else doesn't have the speed to make it.

Of course, if your opponent is stupid and doesn't know how to use fire warriors well, then you'll win.

However, even without the TVR, you may have a hard time against real assault armies like tyranids, orks, and assorted marine armies. The fact that you take a firebase with your rush means you don't have the numbers to deal with these. You can still manage though if you play extremely carefully, and the opponent isn't too smart.

Out of curiosity what armies do you usually play? I can see the list beating rhino rushes and static shooty lists, but not much of anything else.

[Ranger Astheria]

you wouldnt stand a chance against my mates IG army, he has a baneblade super heavy tank lol

hmmmmm........some day my cobra will come  

Super Heavies aren't legal under 2000 points, and if the game went that big the reaper list becomes worse and worse and I'd pick up a different army for such a big game.

As for Blood Angels we have quite a competent one here who is a consistant winner.  I've beaten him a few times.  Reaper Launchers can flatten rhinos especially with the fast shooting missle launcher.  He's tough but I haven't lost yet to him.

[Raetheos]

On the topic of themed Biel-Tan armies...  What I wouldn't mind doing is making an Aspect Shrine Army.  Like, take the Scorpion Pheonix Lord as HQ with 9 scorpions and Exarch, put 'em in a Wave Serpent...  Then, take four or five squads of Scorpions with Exarchs and pop them in Wave Serpents...
That would be cool.

Raetheos