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Author Topic: 1250 Point Eldar List - Based on Battleforce Box Set  (Read 1922 times)

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Offline sblount512

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1250 Point Eldar List - Based on Battleforce Box Set
« on: December 30, 2010, 10:01:16 PM »
Hello Everyone,

I'm looking for feedback on a 1250 point starter list for Eldar. I'm sort-of new to 40K though I've played WHF for some time, and played a few original 40K games back in the late 80s. The basis for this list is for friendly, instructional, games amongst a small group, with the potential for facing Space Marines, Tyranids, Orks, and Necrons. I'd like to hear a few options on how to interchange units while keeping the point cost within a 1250-1500 point battle. I'm also buying Fantasy units, so I want to keep 40K costs down without sacrificing the ability to make a competitive tournamant list at a later date.

Build Assumptions:
- I know Eldar are not the best so-called 'starter army' out there. I'm old enough to handle disappointment, and I'm up to the task. I'll have fun anyway; thanks for your concern!

- I already own the Eldar Battleforce, and I'm looking to create a decent, competitive list based on these troops. I'd like to keeps costs down, though this not my major concern. If going to a 1500 pt army would be that much better then I'll consider it, though I'd like to build upon this army. I also already own a Harlequins unit, though I'm resigned to not using these in less in than a 2500 or so point battle.

- I don't quite know all the lingo yet for 40K so please be precise with responses, and forgive my lack of knowledge on acronyms. I really will appreciate this.

- I'm using Army Builder for point costs


1250 Point Eldar List - Based on Battleforce Box Set

HQ:
Farseer - 1 - 178 pts
SgSpear, R-Warding, SpStones, Jetbike
Powers: Doom, Fortune

Troops:
Guardians - 11 - 128 pts
10 Guardians
1 Warlock - SgSpear, Embolden
WP - SctLsr

Dire Avengers - 11 - 267 pts
9 DA
1 Ex - 2xAvg SC, BS
1 WvSpt - TL SctLsrs

Eilte:
Howling Banshees - 10 - 286 pts
8 HB
1 Ex - Exec, Acro
1 WvSpt - StrEng, TL ShCn

Fast Attack:
Warp Spiders - 6 - 164 pts
5 WS
1 Ex - SpinRif, WthDrw

Heavy Support:
War Walker Squad - 3 - 225 pts
3 War Walkers - SptStns, 2xEML each

Total: 1248


Tactics Assumptions:
- The Farseer on the Jetbike will generally support the War Walker Squad, but will be mobile enough to support other units, or attack light vehicles on his own with the Singing Spear.

- Guardians can help hold objectives, and with the SctLsr provide some long range support. The Warlock will help them hold objectives.

- Howling Banshees can get into combat fast with the Wave Serpent w/star engines, and it's ShuriCans will help support.

- The DA unit will be provide support to all units.

- The WrpSpid unit will be hit and run, attack from behind, etc.
.
- War Walkers with EMLs can provide both infantry and vehicle killing skills, espcially when supported by the Farseer.

Tactical Questions:
- Is the HB unit better then taking a Scorpions unit in terms of general utility?

- I'm taking 3 War Walkers since I already have one from the BF box, but is this viable instead of taking 2 Fire Prisms? Consider the point cost, the actual cost, and the utility of having 6 EMLs within a 1250 pt army.

-Are the Warp Spiders the best general fast attack unit out there for the point cost?


I appreciate any comments!

SB


Offline Roy

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Re: 1250 Point Eldar List - Based on Battleforce Box Set
« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2010, 11:06:58 PM »
Hi there, and welcome to 40K Online! :)

It's always good to have some more true vets of the game around. All these young'uns keep thinking Dark Reapers are supposed to have reaper launchers, when us vets know they should have missile launchers. Tsk tsk. :)

I have a few comments on your list too.

The farseer first. He really should be attached to a squad. If he's out there by himself, he will quickly be singled out and put out of his misery. You could skip back and forth depending attaching and reattaching him to squads, but I think you'll find that a bit difficult. Doom seems to assume you want to close in on opponents, but warwalkers generally don't need things doomed. Guide might be a better choice. Fortuned walkers in cover can work well too. But the farseer still needs a unit for some meatshield.

Since only troops are scoring, running guardians without a transport is very risky. You'll quickly find your opponents will single them out to relieve you of scoring capacity. And with their short range, you'll find it isn't easy to get much damage out of them.

Dire Avengers with a serpent is a fairly decent troop choice, but expect them to attract a lot of attention, due to their magical objective grabbing powers. Often it's just safer to keep them inside the serpent.

Scorpions are better all rounders then Banshees. If you put them with a fortune seer (and possibly doom), your enemies will grind their teeth at rerollable 3+ saves. The farseer also adds some much needed anti tank capacity if given a spear.

Spirit stones on squadrons are useless in 5th ed I've been told :)

You could also consider outflanking with a dual shuricannon squadron of walkers. 18 st 6 shots for 120 pts is a good deal.

Warp Spiders are a great unit, but be careful! I played a game not 5 hours ago, and my warp spiders had a deep-strike mishap and landed in area terrain, killing three of them, and another two when I tried to move out. Dangerous terrain tests are brutal in 5th ed. Hell, I think dangerous terrain is far more dangerous than most enemy fire :p

I also like fielding Warp Spiders with an Autarch with a fusion gun, for added anti tank and CC power.

Good luck, and let us know how your list works out.

Cheers!

Roy.

Offline Irisado

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Re: 1250 Point Eldar List - Based on Battleforce Box Set
« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2010, 06:15:43 AM »
Welcome to the forum.

Roy has covered a lot of points I would have raised about this list, so I'll just add some areas which he didn't mention, and elaborate on a few points that he made.

The list is reasonably solid, but the sole Guardian squad on foot is vulnerable.  You don't have an assault unit to protect it (Striking Scorpions are good for this in my experience), and Guardian Defender squads work best when fielded in pairs, since the firepower from two Scatter Lasers is more impressive than one, and they can support each other.  At 1250 points, you may get away with only taking one squad, due to the fire support from the War Walkers, but certain strategies, such as the hammer and anvil, will not be viable with this mixed list, due to the fragile nature of the infantry component.

The mechanised wing is sound, but your Wave Serpents need Spirit Stones not Star Engines.  You cannot afford for crew stunned results to fragment or slow down your attack, as this hands the initiative to your opponent.  You may also wish to consider taking EMLs or Brightlances on the Wave Serpents for your anti-tank, since they are more accurate than the War Walkers (see later comments).

I agree with Roy about the Farseer.  On his/her own on a Jetbike, the Farseer is likely to become a bullet magnet.  I strongly suggest that you dispense with the Jetbikes, and attach the Farseer to the Howling Banshees or Dire Avengers.

The Warp Spider Exarch needs to be armed with the Exarch Deathspinner in my experience.  They are primarily an anti-infantry unit, but they can also be used against vehicles with weak rear armour, or low AV in general.  Either way, mass firepower is their strength, so I suggest playing to this regarding the weapon choice for your Exarch.  The unit is also too small to get involved in assaults in my view, so you could drop Withdraw.

The best way to arm War Walkers in my view is to give all of them Scatter Lasers.  This gives you excellent anti-infantry and light vehicle fire support.  If you plan to outflank them, then Shuriken Cannons are an option too, as Roy indicated, but outflanking them in this list would leave your Guardians too isolated in my opinion, unless you're facing a gun line which is not going to advance towards you at any stage.

I understand that you're taking War Walkers with EMLs to give you some anti-tank, but without a Farseer with Guide nearby they are simply not accurate enough in my opinion, and they are not all that cheap, which is why I feel the Wave Serpents would be a better place to mount your anti-tank weapons in this list.  Regardless of your weapon choice, you don't need the Spirit Stones (see the vehicle squadron rules to discover why  :)).

As far as your questions are concerned:

- Is the HB unit better then taking a Scorpions unit in terms of general utility?

They are both very good, and are surprisingly similar in effectiveness against quite a wide variety of units, although Howling Banshees have the edge against TEQs and MEQs (although only slightly in the case of the latter, assuming the Striking Scorpion Exarch takes the Scorpion's Claw), while Striking Scorpions have an edge against GEQs, particularly larger units.  For a full discussion on these units, I recommend that you look here, but please don't post in the thread, as it's old.

Quote
- I'm taking 3 War Walkers since I already have one from the BF box, but is this viable instead of taking 2 Fire Prisms? Consider the point cost, the actual cost, and the utility of having 6 EMLs within a 1250 pt army.

Both War Walkers and Fire Prisms are at their best against infantry in my view.  EMLs are also something of a niche weapon against vehicles, specialising in dealing with AV12 (anything lower can be handled by mass Scatter Laser and Shuriken Cannon fire, anything higher is better dealt with by Brightlances, Fire Dragons, Wraithguard, or Warlocks).  I see no problem with taking War Walkers instead of Fire Prisms, but if you're looking for anti-tank fire support from either of these, you're not playing to their strengths in my opinion.

Quote
-Are the Warp Spiders the best general fast attack unit out there for the point cost?

There are no general fast attack units in the Eldar list per se, but Warp Spiders are the most effective of the fast attack Aspects against the widest range of units in my view.

Overall, the list should perform quite well at the 1250 point level, but you will have to be careful with those Guardians, and you may wish to revise which units will be providing your anti-tank fire support.  When it comes to expanding, you will, in my experience, have to bolster that infantry section though.

I hope that helps.
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Offline Michaelius

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Re: 1250 Point Eldar List - Based on Battleforce Box Set
« Reply #3 on: December 31, 2010, 09:16:05 AM »
Tactics Assumptions:
- The Farseer on the Jetbike will generally support the War Walker Squad, but will be mobile enough to support other units, or attack light vehicles on his own with the Singing Spear.

// He will be very dead very fast. In current edition you need to hide characters in unit otherwise they will be singled out and killed really fast. Better option would be putting him on foot and placing him either with Banshees (with Fortune and Doom) or with guardians (to support Walkers with Guide and Fortune)

- Howling Banshees can get into combat fast with the Wave Serpent w/star engines, and it's ShuriCans will help support.
// spirit stones is almost mandatory upgrade before star engine

Tactical Questions:
- Is the HB unit better then taking a Scorpions unit in terms of general utility?
// Not really. Scorpions are more universal and survivable. Also Banshees really need Doom support to do anything in combat.

- I'm taking 3 War Walkers since I already have one from the BF box, but is this viable instead of taking 2 Fire Prisms? Consider the point cost, the actual cost, and the utility of having 6 EMLs within a 1250 pt army.
//War walkers are best most cost effective Heavy Support we have so you can safely take them. Also consider magnetising weapons for them then you can swap weapons freely.

-Are the Warp Spiders the best general fast attack unit out there for the point cost?

//Eldar fast attack are generally bad but Spiders and Vypers can still have resonable uses for them.

Oh yeah also if you look at you army I'd suggest second battleforce as this will give 2 walkers, 2 serpents, 10 dire avengers and 20 guardians (you could use second squad for the time being till you get spiders for example).

Offline sblount512

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Re: 1250 Point Eldar List - Based on Battleforce Box Set
« Reply #4 on: December 31, 2010, 12:39:32 PM »
Wow!  Thank you for all the excellent and well coordinated responses.  I'm not sure Roy that being, shall we say comfortably middle-aged  ;), qualifies me as a true veteran, but I thank you for your kind words and inclusion in such illustrious company.

Michaelius, I have thought of magnetizing the weapons, and have only found one decent tutorial on that so far.  If you have any advice or links to share on that matter, I would really appreciate it.

Thanks Irisado for the sound and well-reasoned advice.  I think I've incorporated most of it in this list.

I've revised the list with the following thoughts in mind.

-2 Guardian units can support each other, and get support from the WW squad with SL as well.  I wasn't really able to give them both WS transport and stay under the 1250 pt cost without sacrificing too much elsewhere IMO, though I suppose it may be viable for 1 WS to support both units.  They can't advance very well, but should be able to comfortably hold objectives on my side.

- I've added TL BLs and EMLs to the 2 WS for anti-tank.  I thought about giving one WW 1 BL as a just-in-case measure since they do not have to be linked.  How much heavy armor am I going to find in a 1250 pt battle?

- I've replaced the HBs with Scorpions with the thought that survival is better in this size game.  The Farseer will join this unit with Doom and a Spear.

- I've dropped the Spiders as they seem a little too hit and miss for this size list, and the unit was too small anyway.  I've added a small unit of Rangers instead to support the Scorpions  They are small unit, but seem very versatile.  They also give me a sneaky Troop scoring option, though more sneaky as pathfinders which I could do if I downgrade the weapons on 1 WS.

- The revised list makes better use of buying a second Battleforce box set, though this isn't the major concern.

- Upgrading to 1500 pts gives me some flexibility as well.  I could add the spiders back in, or possibly a WL for more heavy support.  Dragons seems to be a good upgrade option as well for heavy armor lists.

1250 Point Eldar List - Based on Battleforce Box Set V0.2

HQ:
Farseer - 1 - 98 pts
SgSpear, R-Warding
Powers: Doom

Troops:
Guardians - 11 - 128 pts
10 Guardians
1 Warlock - SgSpear, Embolden
WP - SctLsr

Guardians - 11 - 128 pts
10 Guardians
1 Warlock - SgSpear, Embolden
WP - SctLsr

Dire Avengers - 11 - 297 pts
9 Dire Avengers
1 Ex - 2xAvg SC, BS
1 WvSpt - SStns, TL BL

Rangers - 5 - 95 pts
5 Rangers

Eilte:
Striking Scorpions - 11 - 322 pts
9 Scorpions
1 Ex - Claw, Stalker
1 WvSpt - SStns, TL EML

Heavy Support:
War Walker Squad - 3 - 180 pts
3 War Walkers - 2xSctLsr each

Total: 1248


Let me know if you see any glaring weakness, and thanks again for all the help!


Best Regards,

SB

Offline Irisado

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Re: 1250 Point Eldar List - Based on Battleforce Box Set
« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2010, 12:59:47 PM »
I think that it is now pretty solid, but you will have to choose your strategy with care, as your infantry block could not be used an anvil, which rather forces you into attacking on one flank against any aggressive opposition.

The only potential problem I can see is that you may find that the inability of the Rangers to move and fire splits your army into two, making the Guardians and Rangers very vulnerable to attacks from units which can deep strike or outflank.  The former can be particularly dangerous if equipped with Flamers, while the latter is problematic if any of the units are remotely competent in close combat.  You may, therefore, find it better not to take the Rangers, so that the Guardians are able to advance closer to your mechanised section, using the Wave Serpents at line of sight blockers where possible.  Play test the list before changing anything though, in order to see if this issue arises.

I hope that helps.
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Offline enlg

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Re: 1250 Point Eldar List - Based on Battleforce Box Set
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2010, 02:05:32 PM »
you should playtest this list, although if you wanted a wraithlord, I could see the possibility of making these changes in order to fit it into this list as it would give a good counter assault unit to stay back with the guardians+war walkers+farseer.

I would change/remove:
5 rangers (+95pts)
swap the EML on the wave serpent to TL-shuriken cannons (+20pts)
drop 2 scorpions from their squad, as 8 is sufficient at 1250pts (+32pts)
drop 1 guardian (I can't say how many points on the forum)
that gives you exactly 155pts though, which would be exactly enough for a wraithlord with a bright lance and EML

at a higher points value, with such a strong infantry wing, the rangers will be fine, but taking a squad of 5 isn't that useful really.

You should playtest your army list how it is right now, but just keep in mind that dropping those things could get you a wraithlord which is very useful in smaller (and larger) games, and since you already have 3 troops choices, you have a solid number of scoring units at this points level.

Offline sblount512

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Re: 1250 Point Eldar List - Based on Battleforce Box Set
« Reply #7 on: January 1, 2011, 12:28:34 AM »
Sounds good so far.  I'll playtest the list as is right now and see how it goes.

I think though I'll also test the following:

Drop TL EMLs from 1 WS and add TL SCs
Drop 1 Spear from a Guardian Lock
Upgrade the Ranger to Pathfinders
=1250

The thought being to give them deployment into cover to support the Scorps, not stay back with the Guardians.  Also moving though terrain to score an objective if needed.

However, this raises the question: what is a good initial strategy for this list (given that no strat is always good in all situations)?  I get that the Guardians aren't an anvil, though I would suppose they can decently hold an objective supporting each other.  I'm thinking of being aggressive with the DAs and Scorps, dropping them both on deep targets and moving the WSs back in front of the Guardians to help them advance if needed.  My seer will be with the Scorps.  The Pathfinders could deploy to support either unit.  The WWs would stay at range of the SctLsrs and help mow down infantry, helping in the interim support the Guardians.  Of course not having played at all with this list yet, I'm not sure how any of it would work (thus the need for playtesting).

I do like the suggestion of adding a WL to help support the Guardian line too.  Question though, wouldn't taking a Blade on the WL help more in the situation that Irisado describes in dealing with deep strike flamers or CC units?

Also, if anyone has suggestions or links for help on magnetizing any of these units I'd really like to get that info.

Thanks for all the help; I do very much appreciate it!

Regards,

SB

Offline Irisado

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Re: 1250 Point Eldar List - Based on Battleforce Box Set
« Reply #8 on: January 1, 2011, 05:54:04 AM »
On Wraithlords, I recommend taking two and equipping both with an EML and Brightlance.  You would have to expand to 1500 points to be able to pay for both, but they would fulfil an anti-tank fire support role very well in this list, and their dual Flamers would give you a line of defence with which to protect the Guardians if necessary.  The Wraithsword is only really of any value, in my opinion, if you field assault Wraithlords (Flamers, Wraithsword, and no heavy weapon, or just a Shuriken Cannon at most) and tag team them with the Avatar to run forward as a group for drawing fire, and bashing tanks in close combat.

Strategically, the problem that you may encounter is how to keep your army operating as one, rather than two separate elements.  On paper, deploying the Rangers in a forward position may look attractive, but the risk is that you expose them to more fire, assault troops, or you make it possible for your opponent to get units with Flamers close enough to roast them (think about units in Rhinos or Chimeras, for example, executing a drive by shooting manoeuvre on turn one if you deploy far enough forward).  In other words, you need to be careful with this unit.

I think that the ideal strategy is really a one flank 'hook' attack, whereby you concentrate all your resources on one flank, and strike hard in one place.  Against armies which are slow to redeploy, this should work particularly well, and has the added advantage of making it more difficult for your opponent to get to your Guardians.  You will still have to watch out for outflanking units and squads which can deep strike though.

I hope that helps.
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Offline eldar rock

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Re: 1250 Point Eldar List - Based on Battleforce Box Set
« Reply #9 on: January 2, 2011, 08:17:39 PM »
I like using dire avengers in a wave serpent with a farseer with guide and doom its very fun re-rolling the dice so much. ;D
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