Topic: Which Chapter Should I Choose?

[Ranger Astheria]

That's a very good point, if possible would anyone like to write some con's to their armies?  I'll write some for the Deathwing.

[JamesBot 9000]

Cons of the Blood Angels:
1)No reliable fire support. Black Rage can force your men to move, meaning they can't fire Heavy Weapons.
2)Cheeziness. If you play BA, be prepared for calls of "Cheese!" from losers.
3)Sure, Death Co are cool, but they take away from expensive, powerful units like Terminators and Veteran Assault Squads.

[Zaq]

Black Templars

Pros
Shooty: Other than DA they are the only Tac squad who can field Plasma Cannons
CC: Hit on a 3+ made the more potent by BP+CCW on every marine not even mentioning the model with the powerfist.
Shooty AND CC: You can combine Plasma Cannon with BP+CCW with your Marines making you slightly less shooty but much better in CC.
3 HQ: Emperors Champ and 2 Chaplains. Pts efficient killers. More = good. They're even more efficient with the BT rules .
Termies: Powerfists hitting on 3+ = good. Pity termies aren't that good normally.
Falling forward: I think we all know how nasty it is when those 60 Marines and Cullexus assassin start falling forward.
Good against eldar: They always have psykers and starcannons/reapers so taking vows that let you start 2d6 closer is pretty handy.

Cons
No Devastators: You can't max out on firepower and Preds drop much faster. You'll have to have 3 Preds to make them last long enough.
No Heavy Weapon AND powerfist: This is a big one. It's one or the other.
Falling forward: Without this BT would be an excellent shooty army. With this a balanced army can make you fall forward then assault creating a screen.

Suggestions:
1. Preds and Plasma: Plasma eats armoured troops, Lascannons for tougher targets leaving you with horde armies.  BP+CCW are pretty good for anti-horde.
2. Powerfists and Whirlies: Here you rely on powerfists and meltas for anti-tank. Whirlies take out infantry with AP3. The beauty of this list is that you can concentrate solely on infantry and if your BT are in close-combat they can't be shot while the Whirlies should be out of LOS.

[Zhar]

question: If i decided to play eagle warriors with are a subchapter of ultra-marines, do i get all the benefits and cons of ultramarines? And wut are the pros and cons of ultramarine cauz i dont have any Sm codex right now..

thx

[Samdan]

ultramarines are in the new IA w/ their nid hunter rules.  just because the chapter your gonna play is a successor chapter doesnt give them the same rules.  now, if you call them the eagle warriors but use the UM list for them, you can do that.

[Ranger Astheria]

Correct, really most chapters that are successors from the ultramarines should just be made using the normal standard codex.

[Uzzy]

What about the relictors, does any one have any info on them.

From what I heard about them they seem intresting, i.e using chaos weapons.

Oh and yes, succesor chapters should really use the normal codex.

Though it is of course your choice, i would go with ultramarines. They have a great background, great fluff, and you dont need to buy another codex to use them. The Nid Hunters are excellent, which leads me to another point, the war between the Nids and the Ultramarines is, I think, one of the best set-ups in 40k.

The Ultramarines are the best of the best, and are rarely played anymore, with new players being wowed by the vows of the black templars, the blood rage of the blood angels, the plasma death of the dark angels or the wolfyness of the space wolves. Believe me using any pure codex force gets a lot of respect around where I play.

What really made me pick Ultramarines was there heroic nature, willing to sacrifice themselves to save normal humans, not run off like a certain chapter i know 'cough' Dark Angels 'cough'.  There dont have special rules, just the fluff of being the true heroes in the dark universe of 40k.

[tsalonich]

The Special Rules for the Relictors revolve around the chapter's use of demon weapons and chaos relics.   Rules for these weapons are taken from Codex: Chaos Space Marines.   Other than this, there are no special rules or units.  Their army list would be taken directly from Codex: Space Marines.

[Uzzy]

Sounds simple enough.

What Publication would I use to back up the rules, as I sure that having a commander lugging around a warp blade would raise some eyebrows to say the least.

[tsalonich]

The Original Index Astartes article on the Relictors Chapter appeared in White Dwarf #280 (US).  I beleive they also appear in the most recent version of Index Astartes.  You will need this article as well as Codex: Chaos Space Marine.

Codex: Chaos Space Marine has the rules for the Daemon Weapons.   There are also a couple of new weapons and artifacts listed in the most recent White Dwarf (#287 US  pg. 76-77) as well as a new mission (Scenario) for a Relictors Space Marine Force.

[Uzzy]

Thanks for that, i'll go take a look.

[StrainX]

Plug for Space Wolves: Lots of wargear, elitist army, plenty of customizablity where none of the other chapters get much.

[TheOnlySpiral]

Disadvantadges of Dark Angels:
- Intractable: Fail a Morale Test taken from shooting and then you can't move for a turn.  Not a nice thing.
- Fallen: It gets repetitive to roll for this every game, and after you name the chrecter that knows of the fallen, he has a habit of disappearing in a Rhino for the whole game.
- Allies: While an awsomely fluffy rule it kinda limits some of the crazy fun possibilites you can have. 
- HQ: Your HQ choices cost more than most space marines thanks to being Stubborn and all having terminator Honors.
- Unit Choices: You don't get Veteran Squads, or the HQ squad.
Advantadges no-one has noted:
-Stuborn: You can make your squads Stubborn for 5 points if you have a Vet. Sergeant in them.  Only drawback is that you can't use optional fallback rules.  Passing All morale tests is worth it in my opinion. 
- Deathwing Terminators: For 5 points more they're stubborn, have excellent fluff, and you can make the either Shooty or Assaulty.
- Psychic Powers: Your Librarian has a choice of not 1 but 2 Psychihc powers depending on what you want him to do. 
- Ravenwing: Ravenwing have a 6+ Jink Save against attacks...Having that little edge is more than enough sometimes.  You also get to re-roll the die for a difficult terrain test.
- Plasma in tactical squads...fun fun 
- awsome fluff
-Robes.  Everyone loves robes

[Eddie_karrde]

Black Templars- I love Templars and have played for years, but most people either love them or hate them.

They do have clear advantages-
Emperors Champion
Vows
Purity Seals
Charge instead of Fall Back
Honed Towards Close Combat
They'll cleave as mightily huge gap in enemy lines when they get there

But they do have a lot of disadvantages which go unseen-
Empereor's Champion is just a jumped up marine: He's a bit amphetamine parrote realy
All vows have their own disadvantage
They have very little to take down Big Nasties like C'Tan and BigDaemons
No Devestators
Theyre as good as dead if they don't get into the enemy by turn 2


I still love them though, my latest tactic is almost completly in army selection. TYhe mainstay of my force is 2 rhinos with my marshal, EC and a fully tooled up command squad (tech, vet serg etc.) and a chaplain with a command squad (just a vet sergeant) both command squads have termie honours. This is a huge chunk of my points cost, but the rhino smoke launchers mean that my enemies have to run to the hills if they dont wont some black-armourerd death plowing through their lines and impervious to shooting due to being in C-C for 90% of the game. Im currently painting up 10 (yes 10!!!!) lightning clawed termies which i can deepstrike in as support. Its a bit all or nothing and most of 3000 points is in 3 units, but it kinda becomes a case of can the enemy stop me from butchering enough of their stuff to win.

[Eddie_karrde]

Black Templars- I love Templars and have played for years, but most people either love them or hate them.

They do have clear advantages-
Emperors Champion
Vows
Purity Seals
Charge instead of Fall Back
Honed Towards Close Combat
They'll cleave as mightily huge gap in enemy lines when they get there

But they do have a lot of disadvantages which go unseen-
Empereor's Champion is just a jumped up marine: He's a bit amphetamine parrote realy
All vows have their own disadvantage
They have very little to take down Big Nasties like C'Tan and BigDaemons
No Devestators
Theyre as good as dead if they don't get into the enemy by turn 2


I still love them though, my latest tactic is almost completly in army selection. TYhe mainstay of my force is 2 rhinos with my marshal, EC and a fully tooled up command squad (tech, vet serg etc.) and a chaplain with a command squad (just a vet sergeant) both command squads have termie honours. This is a huge chunk of my points cost, but the rhino smoke launchers mean that my enemies have to run to the hills if they dont wont some black-armourerd death plowing through their lines and impervious to shooting due to being in C-C for 90% of the game. Im currently painting up 10 (yes 10!!!!) lightning clawed termies which i can deepstrike in as support. Its a bit all or nothing and most of 3000 points is in 3 units, but it kinda becomes a case of can the enemy stop me from butchering enough of their stuff to win.

[Eddie_karrde]

Black Templars- I love Templars and have played for years, but most people either love them or hate them.

They do have clear advantages-
Emperors Champion
Vows
Purity Seals
Charge instead of Fall Back
Honed Towards Close Combat
They'll cleave as mightily huge gap in enemy lines when they get there

But they do have a lot of disadvantages which go unseen-
Empereor's Champion is just a jumped up marine: He's a bit amphetamine parrote realy
All vows have their own disadvantage
They have very little to take down Big Nasties like C'Tan and BigDaemons
No Devestators
Theyre as good as dead if they don't get into the enemy by turn 2


I still love them though, my latest tactic is almost completly in army selection. TYhe mainstay of my force is 2 rhinos with my marshal, EC and a fully tooled up command squad (tech, vet serg etc.) and a chaplain with a command squad (just a vet sergeant) both command squads have termie honours. This is a huge chunk of my points cost, but the rhino smoke launchers mean that my enemies have to run to the hills if they dont wont some black-armourerd death plowing through their lines and impervious to shooting due to being in C-C for 90% of the game. Im currently painting up 10 (yes 10!!!!) lightning clawed termies which i can deepstrike in as support. Its a bit all or nothing and most of 3000 points is in 3 units, but it kinda becomes a case of can the enemy stop me from butchering enough of their stuff to win.

[Eddie_karrde]

Black Templars- I love Templars and have played for years, but most people either love them or hate them.

They do have clear advantages-
Emperors Champion
Vows
Purity Seals
Charge instead of Fall Back
Honed Towards Close Combat
They'll cleave as mightily huge gap in enemy lines when they get there

But they do have a lot of disadvantages which go unseen-
Empereor's Champion is just a jumped up marine: He's a bit amphetamine parrote realy
All vows have their own disadvantage
They have very little to take down Big Nasties like C'Tan and BigDaemons
No Devestators
Theyre as good as dead if they don't get into the enemy by turn 2


I still love them though, my latest tactic is almost completly in army selection. TYhe mainstay of my force is 2 rhinos with my marshal, EC and a fully tooled up command squad (tech, vet serg etc.) and a chaplain with a command squad (just a vet sergeant) both command squads have termie honours. This is a huge chunk of my points cost, but the rhino smoke launchers mean that my enemies have to run to the hills if they dont wont some black-armourerd death plowing through their lines and impervious to shooting due to being in C-C for 90% of the game. Im currently painting up 10 (yes 10!!!!) lightning clawed termies which i can deepstrike in as support. Its a bit all or nothing and most of 3000 points is in 3 units, but it kinda becomes a case of can the enemy stop me from butchering enough of their stuff to win.

[dantesdeathdealer]

I paly the Blood Angels and not ownly are they fun to play but there fun to paint to i also like the cool ass stories and i love the to assault a squad and watching your opponets smile go to a frown when your ripping threw there squads with ease,and dont u just love the smell of bone sinew and burning flesh.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              YOU fool the Blood Angels are not cursed it was a last gift from Sanguinius!

[JamesBot 9000]

YOU fool the Blood Angels are not cursed it was a last gift from Sanguinius!

It's a mixed blessing. Sure, we kick butt in cc, but ever tried using a Devastator Squad in a BA army? Nearly worthless unless you are EXTREMELY lucky with dice rolls.

[dantesdeathdealer]

sorry if this sounds stupid but what does cc and ba mean