I am actually really struggling with making and sticking with a list.
(Most of this post is to explain more of my reasoning for the above, but I'm not arguing at all, I am really just confused on what I should be doing.)
For the points spent on leaders thing, I got that from Evan Williams (who went 4 and 1 in a GT) in this video with AoS coach: Talkin&#38;#38;#38;#38;#38;#38;#38;#39; Slaanesh | 3rd Edition Warhammer Age of Sigmar - YouTube
. However, since I've never actually played a game before, I could be taking it out of context. He says that Hedonites need to take 1000 points of heroes. His list has 4: Glutos (which I have, but every list I see includes him, which makes him seem dull), Keeper of Secrets, Sigvald, and a lord of pain as the general. He says not to take Sigvald unless he can teleport, because he is fragile and can't just run up the center. He used Lurid Haze Invader's Host. My issue with his list is that it doesn't seem fun to play against. It is designed to assassinate something important with 100% certainty on turn 1. That would really annoy me, but I listened to the Season of War recap on their GT and it also sounds like nearly everyone has a plan to do something equally terrifying, so maybe I just have to deal with it. I am somewhat tempted to go ahead and buy the rest of the stuff for his list, just so I know the list is good.
So I don't know if I should also be taking lots of heroes or not for this particular list. To recap my faction ideally needs to deal 1 point of damage to all enemies in a round and take 1 point (and only 1 point) of damage on everything I brought in order to maximize depravity and summon more crap. (I know that won't actually happen.) So having more stuff, especially when it won't die is preferable. My subfaction Pretenders get a general with 2 command traits, one of which I want to be Craving Stare, and the other doesn't really matter to me. They also get to reroll 1's to hit if the unit has over 10 models (kind of indicating that they want me to reinforce my stuff). This subfaction ability actually makes choosing troops more difficult, because reinforcing things makes it less likely for me to get more depravity, since potentially 2 or 3 squads would be rolled into 1 squad in one or more places. Lastly, I want to make use of wizards to cast 2 spells every round: Phantasmagoria and Soulslice Shards.
Starting with his list as a baseline, I removed Glutos and the Keeper because I can get a lot more units without them == more potential depravity. Plus Glutos isn't particularly aligned with my subfaction or wizard goals. He's very good though, so he might be something I have to take eventually. I just don't want to start the list with him in it.
I put the blissbarb archers in there, because they can shoot twice in a turn, so they could theoretically get 1 more depravity point/turn than the painbringers. I still need frontline units, so I left those in there. I added the marauders because 90 points for hopefully 2 more depravity/turn. And the slickblade seekers just because you recommended them.
A big question that I don't really understand is when buffs and debuffs stack or don't stack. I know that there's a maximum of +-1 on armor saves. Is the same true for leadership? Is the same true for to hit rolls? (I have 3 different things that could subtract -1 to hit, which might be another direction to take it).
Another question supposing leadership debuffs stack is "how low do I need to get leadership for it to be worth doing to a high leadership target?"
My tools that could reduce leadership are:
Dreadful Visage (endless spell)
Mask of Spiteful beauty (artifact)
Chaos Marauders (on or off horses)
For the sake of argument, let's say I go with Marauders, it looks like I could be reducing a target's leadership by somewhere between 6 and 12 with the average being -8 (if the spells go off). My low morale unit is 5 and my highest is 10 I think, so either way I *could* get it down to 0. Soulslice shards and Craving Stare (general ability) would deal a lot of damage
and Dark Delusions would auto pass, which frees up command points. All demon casters get a spell that just adds +1 to hit though, so I don't necessarily need that spell, unless the two spells stack.
Archaeon may be one of my best choices because he has a big aura, I could give him either Phantasmagoria or Soulslice Shards, and he would be the best thing to cast Dreadful Visage. I really have no idea how to use him effectively though. Is he supposed to be casting other spells instead? How bad is he hurt by not being in a Slaves or Tzeentche list? Is he still worth the points in this list? If I did take him, then I would need 1 more caster at a minimum that would be casting either phantasmagoria or soulslice shards, whichever he didn't take. And I'd also need a general that could take an artifact. The cheapest option that satisfies both options that I think is good would be a bladebringer on exalted chariot, making the other commander ability the +1 to hit beasts because some random person on the internet said that makes it able to kill something that sounded impressive, but I don't remember what it was or if that was accurate. But either way it is meant to get in close which is what enables the artifact and craving stare. I assumed that Archaeon was overcosted with the loss of two of his abilities being Slaves to Darkness specific, but he is a Hedonite and would get the faction bonuses (if that matters at all), and I honestly don't know. I feel like that much power makes him a big target though, especially because most people are going to ignore Archaeon as a target. Also, I would have to use helreavers and blissbarb archers as my battleline. I don't want to use demonettes as battleline for sure, which leaves blissbarb archers and helreavers. I have up to 2 squads of either. Since neither are super desirable, I'd go with the cheapest of my options 2 units of helreavers and 1 blissbarb. That leaves me with less than 500 points to get big blobs of units and/or casters to cast the other spells. I would prefer one of the options that reduces ld, so I'll go with marauders. 1 units of 20, just because I have so few units of hedonites that I can only have 2 coalition units. I have just enough points to take Twinsouls, so I'll go with that. When I look at this list, it doesn't seem like I have enough stuff on the field. I only have 1 melee unit with more than 10 to start with, which is blah for this subfaction. This subfaction is the only one allowed to take that command trait and artifact though, so it seems like this is the one to take if I want to focus on leadership. I also don't feel like this list has enough units in general. It also doesn't have room to cast spells outside of my combo. I think it'd be nice to have a mystic shield caster, a Dark delusions/Acquiescence caster, and maybe others (specifically if I had Synessa, she has a hero snipe spell that only really works with her).
Other questions: I see other people have more than 1 artifact, but Battlescribe never lets me have a second one. I *think* all I need is more than 1 core battalion, and I always have 2. The second one is a warlord core battallion, which I think should let me have another enhancement, and I think an artifact is an enhancement. Shouldn't that be letting me have 3 artifacts? It'd be nice to also have the amulet of destiny and one to throw in the Fane of Slaanesh. Am I able to put them all on one commander?
Battlescribe also confuses me with regard to taking Archaeon. It consisers him a coalition unit even though he has "Hedonite" keyword, but the FAQ says that you can't take a unit with the Khorne keyword as a coalition unit, and he also has that keyword. Why would it be a Hedonite if I can't have it in a Hedonite list? Is it or isn't it a coalition unit?
Another concern I have is whether or not the Craving Stare and Mask of Spiteful beauty abilities prevent me from doing something else important. e.g. finest hour or all out defense.
Here is what I came up with if I prioritize getting troop blobs above 10:
Bladebringer on exalted Seeker Chariot
Mask of spiteful beauty
Godbeast killer or Master of Magic
Bladebringer on Seeker Chariot
artifact of some kind
Shardspeaker of Slaanesh
Battle Rapture (this is more important with 4 bigish blobs)
2x Blissbarb archers
Helstriders with Hellscourges
Other troops/the blobs:
16 Iron Golems (to sit on an objective)
20 Splintered Fang (mortal wounds)
Endless Spell: Dreadful Visage
I could save points on the blobs by using more cultists instead of marauders and upgrade the bladebringer on seeker chariot to either hellflayer or exalted chariot depending on if I replaced one or both. Marauders are better than any of the cultists, and only the unmade give -1 to leadership. I'm not sure what the two new ones are like, but if I had to choose between the others in this case, I'd probably go with Unmade then Untamed Beasts.
&& I hear you on the painbringers vs blissbarb argument. I don't think they are as needed in this list because there's a lot of front line troops in the blobs.
I'm not sure how to model the bladebringers onto the exalted chariot/hellflayer/seeker chariot. Do I just buy a herald and throw it on the chariot somewhere? Or is it more just declaring what it is? I really hate the herald model, so I might try to find something else if I need to do that.Excessive rules descriptions removed or rewritten in a vague manner in accordance with forum rule 1. Please avoid writing out rules and stats - Iris.