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Author Topic: Help Raktra be not terrible at 40k again - 1500pt Grey Knights  (Read 2436 times)

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Offline Raktra (So long, I guess)

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Help Raktra be not terrible at 40k again - 1500pt Grey Knights
« on: November 18, 2012, 11:42:33 AM »
Just a note before we start - when I say Grey Knights, I literally mean only Grey Knights. None of the non-Marines in the book. I know that's restrictive, but I'm pretty set.

All of the lists I've run since I came back have either been themed or "How many Terminators can I fit in this points bracket?", and much as I am having fun with them, I'm wanting to actually win a game again for once. My current model set is fairly set, but with Christmas gifts and bonuses on the horizon, there's a lot that can be done. A rough basis for the first 1k goes like this:

HQ
Grand Master
Falchions
185

Troops
10 man Strike Squad
Psybolts
2 Psycannons
2 Hammers
Halberd
265

10 man Strike Squad
Psybolts
2 Psycannons
3 Hammers
270

Fast Attack
10 Interceptors
2 Psycannons
3 Hammers (one on Justicar)
Psybolts
330

Well that clocks onto 1050, but regardless. With my current HQ choices, the Grand Master could easily be switch out to Mordrak and his buddies, a Librarian, a Brotherhood Champion or Crowe. The only thing that's set in this list in the first Strike Squad, as I already have it built, painted and based. Other than that, go nuts and tell me everything I'm doing wrong.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2012, 11:44:03 AM by Raktra »

Offline Guildmage Aech

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Re: Help Raktra be not terrible at 40k again - 1500pt Grey Knights
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2012, 02:27:17 PM »
Best builds with GK (like all lists I believe) is to have stuff to deal with whatever comes, be they infantry, tanks, airplanes etc?

How do you feel about quad psy autocannon dreads? Great for dealing with vehicles and general fire support.
Stormraven? It shoots airplanes pretty good! And stuff on the ground. It's better at being a gunship than a transport at the moment.

I'm not so much a fan of the teleporting squads, they don't seem to do a useful role to me. They don't fight that well in combat and moving quickly isn't that useful with the weapons they have. And the cost a lot...

You don't enjoy much success with terminators? You can set squads up for different task, minimal units to deep strike as disruption squads, and they make good fighters on foot in the front lines.
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Offline Raktra (So long, I guess)

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Re: Help Raktra be not terrible at 40k again - 1500pt Grey Knights
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2012, 02:43:43 PM »
I think my Terminator issue has stemmed from running nought but twenty Terminators and a Dreadknight as my list since I came back, not counting the list I took to Warhammer Invasion (if you want, I could post that up as another suggestion for a basis, as it ran pretty well). If it can work, then I am way too far out of practice for it for now.

Psyflemen Dreads I'm more than happy with. Stormraven I'm not sure about, mainly because of the idea of a jet fighter in a "secret" army. But I do have a converted Valkyrie gathering dust, so I could roll with that.

I'm in slight disagreement with you on the Interceptors, but again, it's been awhile. In my mind they were going to run as a fancier GJB unit, using the shunt to bounce onto an enemy objective at the end of the game and get Linebreaker. Though I'm guessing a Dreadknight could do the same, better, with Grand Strategy involved.

Offline Blood Hawk

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Re: Help Raktra be not terrible at 40k again - 1500pt Grey Knights
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2012, 08:14:07 PM »
First thing is that strikes are NOT CC units, neither are interceptors for that matter.  I would keep the CC upgrades to a min, just 2 psycannon and maybe 1-2 hammers if you have the points.

As for the HQ honestly I personally really like Coteaz and basic inquisitors with psyker upgrades to pass out buffs but you want only GK so in that case I think the libby would be the best choice.  I wouldn't bother with the powers from the codex and switch out for divination powers every game.  As far as upgrades maybe get lvl3 but other than that the rest I would only give with any left over points at the end of making your list.  The primaris power is the one you want since it gives you essentially a whole game turn of rerolls to hit (that is all rolls to hit range and CC) and the others can be useful it just depends. 

The main thing is that PAGK work best from my experience as ranged units, the librarian with divination powers helps make your shooting more deadly.  The grand master, while good in CC is more expensive and very lacking in ranged department and pays WAY to much for a better gun.

I would also suggest a pair of autocannon dreads, you can get autocannon arms off forge world.  Beyond that you need some anti air otherwise you only real chance of killing planes is spray and pray from the psycannons.  The stormraven is our answer, give it a TL MM, and TL LC and it can hunt other flyers rather effectively.  Other than that I have had some success using the aegis defense line with quad gun with the GK army, especially if I am running without transports.

On psybolts for non vehicle squads, I did give it to every squad when I first started GK but now I don't bother.  Putting more bodies on the table is usually better than giving psybolt ammo to every squad.

I'm not so much a fan of the teleporting squads, they don't seem to do a useful role to me. They don't fight that well in combat and moving quickly isn't that useful with the weapons they have. And the cost a lot...
I disagree.  If he wants to foot slog GK alongside maybe some dreads with range weapons than you need some mobile element IMO otherwise you have no way to threaten your opponents backfield, and no way outside deep striking units of dealing with artillery.  Interceptors I have found do that job rather well.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2012, 08:15:23 PM by Blood Hawk »

Offline Major Arah

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Re: Help Raktra be not terrible at 40k again - 1500pt Grey Knights
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2012, 11:44:43 PM »
It's been a while since I last played and I haven't played Gk in 6th ed yet but yea take off the psybolts for your squads. Unless your enemy are walking up to your objectives they will stay well away from the storm bolters.

Take out the Halberd in the first strike squad since you generally don't want to get into combat with your strike squads. The thunder hammers are just an insurance if you get charged by something big and nasty.

I would suggest either getting Psyfleman dreads or  dreadknight to deal with the really nasty things.
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Offline Raktra (So long, I guess)

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Re: Help Raktra be not terrible at 40k again - 1500pt Grey Knights
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2012, 06:12:28 PM »
Right, screwed around a bit with a list. I've broken my previous vow to myself and tipped towards using Coteaz.

HQ
Coteaz
Divination

Troops
10 man Strike Squad
2 Psycannons
2 Hammers
Halberd
245

10 man Strike Squad
2 Psycannons
2 Hammers
240

5 Terminators
Banner
Psycannon
2x Halberds
Hammer
250

Elites
6 Purifiers
Falchions x2 (Don't even start, okay?)
3 Halberds
Hammer
165

Fast Attack
Stormraven
Typhoon Launcher
230

Heavy Support
Dreadnought
2 Autocannons
Psybolts
135

Dreadnought
2 Autocannons
Psybolts
135


I didn't take the Lascannon/ Multi-Melta combo due to my model already being set up that way. Might be able to swap out the Assault Cannons though. Thinking of plopping Coteaz in the Terminator unit, but I worry they may be a bit too in-your-face for him to be safe.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2012, 08:08:55 PM by Raktra »

Offline ~Iron Captain Softy~

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Re: Help Raktra be not terrible at 40k again - 1500pt Grey Knights
« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2012, 04:17:26 PM »
You have the right idea.

As good as GKs are at taking on anything with every unit, GK Infantry Squads ideally want to be shooting at Infantry targets because of the Storm Bolters. Having those dedicated transport busters to target armor first can save up all those storm bolter shots so you can engage those most optimal targets.

That being said, I rate Psybolts very high on Strike Squads. It's an efficient upgrade on a 10 man squad, as 8 of them will receive the benefits. It will give you the capability to engage up to AV11 at full effectiveness, as Storm Bolters will gain the ability to affect that (It upgrades your engagement continuum from just AV10 paper planes and side/rear to the ever popular Razorback/Rhino). The extra Strength also helps a lot with your damage output against infantry targets, and every little bit of extra damage dealt at range helps tremendously.

Removing the Banner from the terminators and the Typhoon would have been able to give you psybolts for both strike squads, but it seems you are unwilling to do so. I suppose it's alright, since the bolters will still do their jobs without psybolts, but the difference is very noticable to me when I use it/leave it.

Generally, with a GK only list, you want to have the Water style in mind, as that's what the Marine side of the house does best. In 6th, that means being able to get all of your knights to either deep strike or to shunt into position (or fly, that works too). Note that this does not mean you have to do so every game, just that it's generally helpful to be able to have the option to do so, as it gives you the power to decide who you will hit and where the battle will take place (essential to making a Water army work).

This is why I think 6th edition has made pure GKs a pipe dream, as the 50% reserves thing kills Null Deployment as an option. If you want to have a lot of GKs and do the whole water thing while not throwing all your points into mobility, Henchmen basically become a requirement to make it happen. They make fulfillment of the 50% requirement very easy, as the Inquisitor, Retinue, and Mortis Dreads allows up to 5 units to go into reserves. Otherwise, you're stuck with a lot of dead weight, as GKs are usually limited to 24" range and thus can not concentrate firepower very well when split up.
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Offline Raktra (So long, I guess)

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Re: Help Raktra be not terrible at 40k again - 1500pt Grey Knights
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2012, 11:46:39 AM »
I've not said I'm adverse to removing the Brotherhood Banner, but I do question it. Surely the benefits it provides for the hammer unit are enough to justify it?

Offline Prophecy

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Re: Help Raktra be not terrible at 40k again - 1500pt Grey Knights
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2012, 01:31:14 PM »
For 10 guys I think the banner is awesome but for 5 it is a little questionable. I think softy is giving some good advice.

Offline Raktra (So long, I guess)

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Re: Help Raktra be not terrible at 40k again - 1500pt Grey Knights
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2012, 03:23:22 PM »
I think I've got another Halberd Terminator from my other unit that's not being used in this list, so I could swap the Banner over. The Typhoon Launcher's a bit more of an issue due to the model being already built. I'll see if I can prize it off without causing harm to it (it's a conversion so a tad harder than normal).

So now I've got a choice. Do I add an extra man to the Purifier unit and add in two Psycannons (which will leave me with a stray 11pts), or do I focus more on boosting the scoring units with Psybolts?

Offline Major Arah

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Re: Help Raktra be not terrible at 40k again - 1500pt Grey Knights
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2012, 10:39:31 PM »
I agree with Softy on the Banner. Its an iffy piece of wargear. It works best if the squad is full sized i.e. 10 man, but when will you ever get a 10 man unit into combat unharmed? There is no transport that can carry it. If you combat squad the unit then only one 5 man part will get its benefit. My advice is to also leave it out no matter how tasty it seems.

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Offline ~Iron Captain Softy~

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Re: Help Raktra be not terrible at 40k again - 1500pt Grey Knights
« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2012, 01:18:50 AM »
If it's a choice between psybolts and Psycannons, take the Psycannons. New capabilities > enhanced capabilities IMO.
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Offline Greg23

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Re: Help Raktra be not terrible at 40k again - 1500pt Grey Knights
« Reply #12 on: November 26, 2012, 09:55:11 PM »
I am surprised at not seeing any master crafted weapons.  With challenges being the rage all over the place, having a master crafted weapon actually can go the distance for Justicars.

If you really want to engage with anti-deep strike sadism, drop the termies and pick up a henchman squad for Coteaz.
3 heavy weapon Servitors
3 space monkeys, they're almost like obliterators!
3 acolytes with plasma guns
3 acolytes with storm bolters.
Coteaz with ML2 Divination with the henchmen
2 10 man GKSS with Warp Quake full blast.

Any opponent using deep strike rules near your army will be begging for a delay result.

The GK FAQ ruled it that Coteaz can legally double tap deep strike transports like drop pods and then the deployed units like marines and dreadnoughts.


 


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