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Author Topic: "Dead" Wing army for review  (Read 3142 times)

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Offline ClemsonChaos

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Re:"Dead" Wing army for review
« Reply #20 on: November 23, 2002, 09:14:22 PM »
The only problem with that Thousand Sons army you listed is that it is like 1975 points without any psychic powers.

On the matter of obliterators, one obliterator is approximately the same as a 5 man squad with one heavy weapon.  Except of course that the oblit has his choice of heavy weapons and can move and shoot which would make him better than a 5 man squad with a heavy weapon, and he costs less.  Same with havocs.  If I were gonna trade one or the other the havocs would go first.  two obliterators is the same pts cost about as a 5 man havoc squad with 3 Missile launchers.  They only have one wound less, can move and shoot, and have better saves plus an invulnerable save, higher toughness, and choose which weapon they want.

Also remember that thousand sons termies are more expensive, and strike at init 1 in Close combat and dont get bonus for charging.  In other words, they suck.  Terminators are made for close combat, and terminators that strike at initiative 1 without bonuses for charging and no heavy weapons really have no purpose unless you just want really tough guys with linked boters, kind of inefficient at 46 points per model.

Offline Necromortis

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Re:"Dead" Wing army for review
« Reply #21 on: November 23, 2002, 09:35:08 PM »
Chosen become sorcerers, so they do not get the Rubric Sign and therefore do not strike at I 1.  If you take the obliterator then you can not have the free Aspiring Champion rule so make your chioce.

Offline ClemsonChaos

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Re:"Dead" Wing army for review
« Reply #22 on: November 23, 2002, 09:43:50 PM »
I think you missed the point, I wouldn't use Thousand Sons or any cult for that matter, the advantages just dont exist.  If anything they would get marks of slaneesh.  Terminators are close combat oriented, why would you want any of them to strike at initiative 1?  I mean, wasting 1000 points on things that dont do much is very inefficient.

Volren

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Re:"Dead" Wing army for review
« Reply #23 on: November 24, 2002, 11:59:07 AM »
Teminators are balanced. With guns like the reaper autocannon and the ability to shoot as if stationary when moving, I'd say they are not only confined to CC.

They make a good deterrent, and are powerful in CC, but ignoring their shooting ability is a bad idea.

Don't forget that these Terminators have 2 wounds each, and have a 2+/5++ save. Even Banshees will be hard put to kill them off before they counterattack.

Offline Necromortis

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Re:"Dead" Wing army for review
« Reply #24 on: November 24, 2002, 12:22:53 PM »
Chemsom Chaos, you are ignoring me.  The terminators are Chosen, not regular CSM,  therefore being sorcerers not automatons that strike at I 1.  They strike at I 4.  Well, thats if you are smart and upgrade chosen, not regular CSM.

Volren

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Re:"Dead" Wing army for review
« Reply #25 on: November 24, 2002, 03:17:08 PM »
Chemsom Chaos, you are ignoring me.  The terminators are Chosen, not regular CSM,  therefore being sorcerers not automatons that strike at I 1.  They strike at I 4.  Well, thats if you are smart and upgrade chosen, not regular CSM.

That would depend on army size; you are limited in the number of Chosen you may field. If you fielded the full 20 allowed in a 1500-1700 point army and pumped them all up, you may be able to fill in the entire army, but with very few models.

Offline Necromortis

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Re:"Dead" Wing army for review
« Reply #26 on: November 24, 2002, 03:24:09 PM »
Well, you still take 1 squad of CSM termies, but gear them for shooting.  Then take 2 squads of Horrors, with 4 of 5 upgraded to Flamers.

Volren

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Re:"Dead" Wing army for review
« Reply #27 on: November 24, 2002, 03:27:27 PM »
Uh huh, but you can't gear the CSM termies for anything except the Champion.
Two squads of flamers/horrors are good... I prefer flamers though, horrors'll never kill anything.

Offline Necromortis

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Re:"Dead" Wing army for review
« Reply #28 on: November 24, 2002, 03:37:07 PM »
Flamers rule, you get an assualt heavy bolter for 7 points.  A bit under priced in my opinion.  However, I am going to collect 1ksons, in a while of course.

Offline ClemsonChaos

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Re:"Dead" Wing army for review
« Reply #29 on: November 24, 2002, 05:36:59 PM »
Oh, sorry about that, wasn't thinking.  Right, the only way to get terminators is chosen.  But still, 1k sons suck, I mean they are just plain horrible.  The only thing they get is an extra wound.  Other than that there is no advantage.  Terminators already shoot as if standing, so slow and purposeful only hurts them by slowing them down.  And one wound for 10 points per model is not worth it in any way.  As far as teh rest of the army goes, it is even worse, no heavy weapons, move as if in difficult terrain, just bad.  And as far as psychic powers go, anyone can be a sorceror for 10 pts more, they just have to make psychic tests.  This army was posted so I could get feedback on it.  1k sons are out, i will never use them.  Any other ideas?

Offline Necromortis

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Re:"Dead" Wing army for review
« Reply #30 on: November 24, 2002, 06:46:23 PM »
Cut 1 Obliterator, more like cut 2 or 3 Obliterators and get more troops.  You have 2 squads.  Booo.  Troops are good, very good.

Offline Scythe

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Re:"Dead" Wing army for review
« Reply #31 on: November 24, 2002, 07:48:49 PM »
ClemsonChaos there are 2 ways to have Thousand Son Termies.

1ST: Chosen, MoT they become Sorcerers. They then must buy the Armour, and then if they want full access to the armoury must pay for aspiring upgrade. = 56pts without any powers.

2ND: Any Thousand Sons squad maybe upgrade too termies @ 18pts. They have the Rubric. They are armed with Combi-Bolter & Power Sword. Nothing can be changed on them. You can have a Sorcerer. = 42pts a model. But 2 wounds 2+/5+ Inv. Save.

I know which ones I prefer.

Volren

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Re:"Dead" Wing army for review
« Reply #32 on: November 24, 2002, 08:05:05 PM »
ClemsonChaos, the Thousand Sons are the closest you can come to making a Deathwing army for Chaos.

You can choose another Legion, but they'll always need Troops aside from Daemons.

Offline ClemsonChaos

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Re:"Dead" Wing army for review
« Reply #33 on: November 25, 2002, 02:35:18 AM »
Well, while I was going deathwing style, I was not going pure termie 100 percent, I think that is folly.  It is obvious you all missed what I was doing.  This was an army I was trying to build to be competitive with, not simply to follow a set theme.  It uses alot of terminators so that was the theme, but other than that I was making army choices based on playability.  Thousand Sons might allow me to take all terminators, but Thousand Sons are not playable, they are horrible.  Therefore they will NOT be used.  That is that.  I understand they would be the only way to go pure death wing style, but lets forget I even named the post that and move on to other ideas for ways the army list can be IMPROVED, and by IMPROVED I mean made more competitive for tournaments.

Offline Scythe

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Re:"Dead" Wing army for review
« Reply #34 on: November 25, 2002, 03:06:36 AM »
Listen, you can't have an all Terminator army ever. You must always take some troops.
And whats this about Thousand Sons not being playable, all I can say is don't count your chicken before there hatch.

Offline ClemsonChaos

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Re:"Dead" Wing army for review
« Reply #35 on: November 25, 2002, 02:58:09 PM »
Dont your posts contradict themselves.  I thought you said you could upgrade regular troops to rubric termies for 18 pts apiece.  Would this not allow you to take all termies?

And about Thousand sons being good...just look at them.  I realize the advantage of 2 wound terminators, but other than that, their regular troops are no good because generally troops either assault or fire bigger weapons, at least for space marines.  10 bolters is just not strong enough to devote that many points to it.  Not being able to use obliterators also puts them at a disadvantage.  Obliterators are very, very good.  In fact, in a recent game I played, 3 obliterators and a land raider managed to take out 2 gaurdian squads with 10 men and Dark Lances, and 3 wraithlords with star cannons.  This and I still had 1 obliterator with 1 wound left and the land raider was still alive.  so I lost 2 obliterators to all of that.  Anyways, I just don't like them, don't want them.

Offline IronWarrior

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Re:"Dead" Wing army for review
« Reply #36 on: November 25, 2002, 04:44:46 PM »
Thousand sons troops are excellent. You get a squad of nine, free AC and thats 18 wounds. Sure they suck in CC but just give your AC some psycic powers wich should even it out.

Offline ClemsonChaos

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Re:"Dead" Wing army for review
« Reply #37 on: November 25, 2002, 06:29:14 PM »
Yes, but you are spending lots of extra points for those psychic powers and they dont even it out all the way.  And once again, I just don't like them.  Perhaps I will start a thread on why they are bad, but for now lets focus on ways to improve the army list, if there are any.  And not 1k Sons.

Offline Scythe

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Re:"Dead" Wing army for review
« Reply #38 on: November 25, 2002, 06:41:23 PM »
I forgot too mention the Termies with the Rubric become Elites

Volren

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Re:"Dead" Wing army for review
« Reply #39 on: November 25, 2002, 07:04:07 PM »
Guardian squads with Dark Lances?

Well, if you don't want to use Thousand Sons (who are very good, btw), you have no choice but to take some other Legion and have one Terminator squad or maybe two, if you split Chosen into 5 men each, unless your army is very, very big, so you can only field an army with say, one big Termie squad and some troops, like your list.

Obliterators are unusable by any Cultist army, and yet my Emperor's Children are undefeated in my gaming group even without them. Just because an army doesn't have Obliterators doesn't mean it's bad.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2002, 07:05:17 PM by Anargo »

 


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