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Which Cult Terminater is the most effective all around?

Plague Marine Terminater
7 (50%)
Thousand Son Terminater
1 (7.1%)
Berzerker Terminater
4 (28.6%)
Noise Marine Terminater
2 (14.3%)

Total Members Voted: 13

Author Topic: Most effective Cult Terminater  (Read 3727 times)

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Offline Dark Nick

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Most effective Cult Terminater
« on: August 6, 2002, 02:40:42 PM »
In my opinion it would be the Noise Marine even though I am partial to Tzeentch.  Being able to move while firing Sonic Blasters, and Blast Masters is very effective.  Combined with the Terminaters already good HtH abilitys makes for a great all around squad.

Offline SparqMan

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Re:Most effective Cult Terminater
« Reply #1 on: August 6, 2002, 03:03:48 PM »
You cannot simply label one Cult Terminator as the "most effective" without saying what the effect is that you are trying to achieve.

Noise Marines can lay down a lot of firepower, but I find it frustrating that they have such low (or rather, high) AP values. I play a lot of Tau, Necrons and power armored enemies, so I don't see their value. If I played against a lot of IG, 'nids and Eldar / DE I would maybe have a different view.

Plague Terminators are tough as nails. Their T 5 combined with the 2+/5 (I)+ save makes them close to indestructable. An Aspiring Champion in that squad with a Plague Sword would be especially ugly.

Along the same lines of tough to kill, you have the Thousand Son Terminators. Only weapons S5 and above can hurt them, and they have two wounds (which makes up for the loss of the S5 rule once they get into close combat), with their Terminator armor save on top of that. Their "Slow and Purposeful" is redundant with the armor in place, and it is frustrating to not be able to upgrade their squad weapons. On the other hand, a tricked out Sorceror in Termie armor leading the squad can be very powerful (Flames of Tzeentch a-go-go!).

Berzerker Terminators are hard hitting, but don't have the staying power of Thousand Son or Plague Terminators. Their S 5 attacks means that, statistically speaking, 8 Berzerker Terminators against 10 Space Marines would wipe out about 6 or 7 Space Marines without losing one man. Compare that to the results of 7 Plague Termies, which is about 5 dead. The bonus is also felt against lightly armored vehicles or rear armor (goodbye dreadnought!). Let's not even go into an Axe of Khorne on a Termie Aspiring Champion...

In the end, here are my views:

If you want to cut light infantry to shreds, go with Noise Marines.
If you want a unit that can march across the field, take a severe punishment and still deal out death, go with Plague Terminators.
If you want a unit to stand and fire, take Thousand Son Termies.
If you want a unit that will hit hard but short, go with Berzerker Terminators.

I could give you some interesting comparisons of Plague Terminators vs. Berzerker Terminators...but my Blood Brothers may be angered.

Let's hear what others have to say, and then I'll give some more input.

Offline Dark Nick

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Re:Most effective Cult Terminater
« Reply #2 on: August 6, 2002, 03:46:18 PM »
I agree with you all the way.  Part of the reason I started playing Tzeentch was for Thousand Son Teminaters, and the fact that they are so hard to kill with that extra wound.  Since they gae them an Inv save I have heard a lot of good things on Termy's.  Add an extra wound, toughness, strength,or heavy weaon and you have a model that goes above and beyond the rest.

An Aspiring Berzerker Terminater w/ Chain Axe does sound pretty nasty.

Offline Tobab816

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Re:Most effective Cult Terminater
« Reply #3 on: August 6, 2002, 04:56:46 PM »
Btw, even without their sonic blasters the Slaanesh termies are pretty mean against heavily armored infantry. Extra attacks and powerpowerweapons kick ass. ESPECIALLY against Sisters of Battle and Tau.

And if you equip them with powerfists their 3 attacks at S8 are somewhat more valuable than 2 attacks at S9.
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+++Excerpt from Last Chaos/Space marine game, commentator: Inquisitor Khalheed "The Purgator" Qhor, Ex-Deathball player+++

Chaos vs Space Marine grudgematch today ended 23-19 when Brother Grazieel decimated the chaos team with a heavy bolter.

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+++End of transmission+++

Offline SparqMan

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Re:Most effective Cult Terminater
« Reply #4 on: August 6, 2002, 05:29:36 PM »
I'm normally not a big stickler for spelling...but please start refering to these monstrously powerful soldiers as TerminatOrs and not TerminatErs. Yeesh.

A good point, Tobab. The extra attack ferocious, even without the powerfists.

Offline Tobab816

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Re:Most effective Cult Terminater
« Reply #5 on: August 6, 2002, 06:40:29 PM »
Infact against regular Space marine termies the Slaaneshi terminators will statisticly finish as victorious...even if they get charged...and they cost 1 less point!!
Deathball, the new game of bloody basketball, 40k style!

+++Excerpt from Last Chaos/Space marine game, commentator: Inquisitor Khalheed "The Purgator" Qhor, Ex-Deathball player+++

Chaos vs Space Marine grudgematch today ended 23-19 when Brother Grazieel decimated the chaos team with a heavy bolter.

Afterwards the Chaos Coach Zhuriel the Damned stated "If we weren't ideologically in favor of cheating we'd complain about this""
+++End of transmission+++

Offline Scars

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Re:Most effective Cult Terminater
« Reply #6 on: August 7, 2002, 10:04:13 AM »
plauge termies. hands down. i mean T5 AND 2+ save. Throw in the 5+ inv and that is just the icing on the cake!
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Offline Tobab816

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Re:Most effective Cult Terminater
« Reply #7 on: August 7, 2002, 10:30:10 AM »
When you have a 2+ save the T5 doesn't really matter does it? Because everything that has AP2 has S6 and above.....and anything without Ap2 will probally just bounce off.

Ok, it does have an effect in Close combat against things with powerweapons....let me see..how many things have powerweapons...HMMM MMMM.

Characters....Bansh ees, Incubi...Honorguard ...other chaos terminators....Yup. That's it.
« Last Edit: August 7, 2002, 04:33:23 PM by Tobab816 »
Deathball, the new game of bloody basketball, 40k style!

+++Excerpt from Last Chaos/Space marine game, commentator: Inquisitor Khalheed "The Purgator" Qhor, Ex-Deathball player+++

Chaos vs Space Marine grudgematch today ended 23-19 when Brother Grazieel decimated the chaos team with a heavy bolter.

Afterwards the Chaos Coach Zhuriel the Damned stated "If we weren't ideologically in favor of cheating we'd complain about this""
+++End of transmission+++

Offline SparqMan

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Re:Most effective Cult Terminater
« Reply #8 on: August 7, 2002, 02:17:11 PM »
But how many things are toting AP2 S6 weapons? The point is that regular weapons (S3 and S4) bounce off before even getting to the armor save.

Offline Calador

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Re:Most effective Cult Terminater
« Reply #9 on: August 7, 2002, 02:49:02 PM »
it was a toss up bettween the thousand sons and the plague termie.

cause they do the termie job best take and hold.

the thousand sons are immune to standered weapons fire and they can lay down killer fire power. but same old story someone wipes them out with a plasma gun or charges them in HtH with power weapons.
but i decied on Plague marines cause they can have different stuff and they can defend them selfs in HtH.
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Offline SparqMan

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Re:Most effective Cult Terminater
« Reply #10 on: August 7, 2002, 04:17:47 PM »
For the hopefully final time I would like to point out the following: Thousand Sons CAN, I repeat CAN, fight in close combat. They cannot charge, but they can fight just like any other unit in the game. And power weapons will hurt them just as much as any other Terminator (granted it will take a little more strength to hurt a Plage Termie)...and they all still get the 5+ Inv. save.

Also...I NEVER play my Terminators as a Take & Hold unit. Perhaps the loyalist Space Marines' Terminators are good for that, but mine are always at the head of the fighting. They mow down units with firepower and then charge in with power weapons a glowin'.

Take and hold? Sheesh.  :P

Offline Tobab816

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Re:Most effective Cult Terminater
« Reply #11 on: August 7, 2002, 04:36:37 PM »
Actually Thousand Sons terminators are tougher than Plague Terminators in every way.

When it comes to close combat. 2 wounds is better than +1 Toughness.
When it comes to ranged fire. 2 wounds is still tougher. And once you get up to Autokill weapons...the Plaguemarines would still have been killed!!
Deathball, the new game of bloody basketball, 40k style!

+++Excerpt from Last Chaos/Space marine game, commentator: Inquisitor Khalheed "The Purgator" Qhor, Ex-Deathball player+++

Chaos vs Space Marine grudgematch today ended 23-19 when Brother Grazieel decimated the chaos team with a heavy bolter.

Afterwards the Chaos Coach Zhuriel the Damned stated "If we weren't ideologically in favor of cheating we'd complain about this""
+++End of transmission+++

Offline Calador

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Re:Most effective Cult Terminater
« Reply #12 on: August 7, 2002, 04:44:34 PM »
they can fight in CC but there other people who are better than them.

and told you it was tough toss up why must you punish me !!!!
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Offline SparqMan

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Re:Most effective Cult Terminater
« Reply #13 on: August 7, 2002, 07:02:50 PM »
I'm not sure about that Tobab. The T5 of Plague Marines and Plague Terminators is a part of their statline...not an add on like a bike or Mark of Nurgle.

Sorry, Calador, didn't mean to seem like I was attacking you -- just trying to point out the other side.

A reason I like Berzerker Terminators is their power. True, they won't stay alive as long as the Nurgloids or 1K Sons...but that extra Strength boost helps out a lot. It means that a hit from them will wound 2/3 of the times instead of 1/2...which adds up, especially against non-super (lower than T4) tough opponents...IG, Eldar, etc.

Offline SPCDragonfire

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Re:Most effective Cult Terminater
« Reply #14 on: August 7, 2002, 10:14:13 PM »
I think it's kind of a toss up.  I mean, 1k Sons and PM take damage better, Berzerkers and Noise Marines can dish out more damage.  It all depends on your general strategy.
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Offline Morsla

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Re:Most effective Cult Terminater
« Reply #15 on: August 7, 2002, 10:20:10 PM »
Check out the WD with the Death Guard Index Astartes article - there is a clarification on the toughness of Nurgle units. Sadly, while it is in their statline, I think they still count as T4 for instant-kill purposes.

It doesn't really affect terminators or plaguemarines, though - they only have one wound. Characters with the Mark of Nurgle, however, are still autokilled if they take damage from S8+ weapons. The article didn't really add much to the Nurgle list, sadly, but it did make them a little weaker with that clarification.

(Also, plague marine Aspiring Champions can take the mark of nurgle for 10 points, to access Nurgle gifts - but they never get toughness higher than the 5 they start with. So, you effectively waste those 10 points...)
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Offline SparqMan

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Re:Most effective Cult Terminater
« Reply #16 on: August 8, 2002, 01:26:10 AM »
Thanks for the clarification, Morsla. I don't have the WD with the Death Guard IA in it.

At least Plague Marines get the T5 standard. Berzerkers don't get S5, and Aspiring champions need to pay for the Mark to get their strength bonus. So the points aren't wasted, but it isn't "standard" equipment.

I don't understand the ruling on Plague Marines' toughness. Perhaps because it isn't a "part" of the Marine (like a Tyranid's skin would be) it doesn't help any when you're dealing with a Krak missile landing in your lap.

Offline Calador

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Re:Most effective Cult Terminater
« Reply #17 on: August 8, 2002, 02:09:55 AM »
 ;D It's cool man i'm ok i was just playin' with ya
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Offline Dark Nick

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Re:Most effective Cult Terminater
« Reply #18 on: August 8, 2002, 09:10:30 AM »
I'm trying to model some Thousand Son Sorcerers in TerminatOr armor.  Should their armor be sealed shut like normal Thousand sons and TerminatOrs?  What about my TS Sorcerer Champion?  Should his armor be sealed?

Offline Helmed Horror

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Re:Most effective Cult Terminater
« Reply #19 on: August 8, 2002, 09:24:58 AM »
No they don't have to be sealed. Do what you like to them. However they should be modelled on the termi in the IA.
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