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Author Topic: whats the best lord setup against a jetbike seer council with singing spears?  (Read 1163 times)

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Offline St. Bathory

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well heres a rundown of what he uses: 1 farseer and 5 warlocks.
al on jetbikes, all w/ spears. i think one of his guys has fortune, the other guide, and probably a few other things.

btw. he plays strike force.
If he only has 1 farseer then he cant play strike force, he needs at least 2.  You've been cheated.  What he's doing is like playing worldeaters with unmarked units.

Offline The Rainmaker

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I recommend that you read through codex eldar, codex craftworld eldar and codex EoT, and quote the exact page and rule next time you go against this person, because most of what he's doing is illegal.

You might also want to point him in the direction of EO so that they can tell him exactly what he's doing wrong.
"Woe to you, oh earth and sea, for the Devil sends the beast with wrath, because he knows the time is short... Let him who hath understanding reckon the number of the beast for it is a human number, its number is six hundred and sixty six."

Revelations ch.XIII v.18

formerly Angron

Offline Jern

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Calm down guys, maybe he is wrong on his count of farseer models. Its most likely a 2 farseers and 3 warlocks. Its hard to tell the difference they all looks pretty much the same.

Offline The Rainmaker

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In which case it's still illegal because seer councils can't be mounted on jetbikes.
"Woe to you, oh earth and sea, for the Devil sends the beast with wrath, because he knows the time is short... Let him who hath understanding reckon the number of the beast for it is a human number, its number is six hundred and sixty six."

Revelations ch.XIII v.18

formerly Angron

Offline Lucius

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hes my friend and i am positive it is 5 warlocks and 1 seer.  its funny, cuz he doesnt even have EoT or craftworld, he just reads em at the store we play at.

ill tell him about the changes.

btw, what is a spear of khain?
queere eye for the eldritch guy

Offline Athaga Mor

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man you guys can be funny sometimes.

Let me help:

Eldar:
-no seer councils on jetbikes in Ulthwe or strike forces (Ulthwe) (however, as said, you can have 1fs+5w and have an independant fs join in - for any "other" craftworld/list.)
-It is perfectly possible to have guide and fortune in 1fs+5w.  Eldar fs have things called "spirit stones" which allow fs to use two psychic powers/turn.
-fortune does work on inv. saves
-fs and warlocks do get 3+ on bikes (b/c of speed rather than armor or the bike -the later is fragile in all respects)
-I'm unsure about the s.spear issue, but it wouldn't be my wargear of choice regardless.
-for info on the spear of khaine, see the EoT codex

-don't email or phone GW with questions... pointless... find the answer in a book or agree on the rule before battle.  GW is far from consistent.

BrassBeserker, you invited the argument with your comment.  I've played Eldar for 7 years, and I can assure you that they VERY much do NOT suck. ...I also play with an unheathy group of nurglings and friends.  Every list has strong points and weak points... learn them and get off the 'suck' bandwagon.  Mind you, there is an endless supply of people who think very little of your army as well.

As for 'on topic', the best way to down them is to take a squad of bolters and shoot the s*** out of them and then assault.  "But I might lose.."  Coward!  (Not to mention the amount of points spent on such an Eldar unit far out weighs your loss and the benefit of tying the HQ up).  witchblades/s.spears are NOT power weapons.  The trick is to close in on them and also not assault them.  Though it is better to assault than to let them get away OR to let them come back with friends.  Heavy weapons against them is pretty pointless unless you can gain in quantity (h.bolters).  Also, LatD armies are VERY VERY effective at killing off fs and warlocks by mobbing them - if you can catch them or corner them.  I would also refrain from taking tanks of any kind unless you feel you can keep the HQ away from them.  Likewise, it might be a good idea to play a defensive tactic.  If the Eldar have plaforms, they won't be able to keep up with a jetbike HQ.  Serpents can be shot down (though its tough sometimes).  No jetbike HQ should charge off straight ahead of the rest of the army - try to pull him away from the mass and swarm him.  Also, use cover... jetbikes love going into and out of difficult terrain... "oops, you should have put a dozer blade on that jetbike <then laugh>."  There are ways to do it, just get creative, learn his playing style, and thump 'im on the noggin'.
Athaga Mor
40k - Deathguard CSM, Deathskullz Orks, Daemons, IG Traitors

Current project: painting my new chaos warhound titan

Offline Lucius

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thanks! ill have to try all that!
queere eye for the eldritch guy

Offline Athaga Mor

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np, I also forgot...

no one Lord is good against a jetbike fs/w group.  You are basically tossing points out the window if you think you're going to take the Eldar HQ squad that way (it can be done, but it isn't something I'd want to rely on).  The closest single fig option you'd have is something in 2+/5++ armor and something that can kill everything within 2" of you.  You'd also need high I adn WS, as the Eldar squad 'should' have enhance.  you'd also want something that can shoot and move fast (flight/speed) so they don't dance around you with shuriken cannons.

The jetbike HQ is a curious Eldar squad - one which is most often worth the headache of converting (which actually does say quite a lot).  Essentially, its the same as a seer council (a smaller one).  Most Eldar troops (except banshees, scorps, and the occassional hawks/dragons/spiders)tend to be 'weak' in melee - these guys don't fall into that group... as you no doubt have found out.

I think I'm going to stick to multi-shot squads with some mobility options as far as the 'best way' to kill the squad.

Also, if he pulls that additional farseer trick in a non-Ulthwe squad.  Be sure to be on the up-and-up on your independant character rules - might just help you pick off the additional farseer.  But remember that the additional farseer can detach (possibly hold up some of your incoming assault buddies).

Oh, large templates (ord.) can also help clear out the squad (I'd only go with direct fire though... use the indirect on the rest of the army).  It can help you out with that pesky 'reposition the template' and 'allocation' stuff.

If you are going to lose the CC, lose on the end of his turn so you can at least shoot the Eldar squad and possibly gain a +1A on the charge from another squad.
Athaga Mor
40k - Deathguard CSM, Deathskullz Orks, Daemons, IG Traitors

Current project: painting my new chaos warhound titan

Offline ScorpionSword

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Not true Lann. A lord with dreadaxe is the bane of all eldar seer councils, farseers, warlocks whatever...they dont get there invul save and WS5/6 well...you know what I mean.

Offline Lucius

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a lord w/dreadaxe? that sucks. you mean a prince? sure, they'd lose their invuln, but hed get a 3 normal.
queere eye for the eldritch guy

Offline St. Bathory

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he means with stature, allowing no saves whatsoever.

And a spear of khain is the other SF hq choice, its an avatar supported by warlocks, quite annoying.  If he doesnt have the EOT codex, dont let him play as things like this will come up

Offline Athaga Mor

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Scorpion Sword, True the dreadaxe would be nice, however you still have the issue of getting to CC with the Eldar squad.  If I were the Eldar playing in this situation, I'd tease you into following my jetbike HQ into my squad of scorpions or into line of sight of my dark reapers/d-cannons/whatnot.  And you'd be getting a face full on shuriken cannon at the sametime.

4++ is nice, but it hardly lasts forever... even with rerolls.  And warlocks are the first to go.

While not a jetbike 'council', I played in a megabattle during EoT and had a seer council (fortune, guide and enhance, s.spears and witchblades) run into 2 plague zombie mobs (not my choice really - the guy running it decided to let reinforcements come in right behind me... anyway).  The first turn I didn't take a single wound AND I laugh hysterically.  The second round of CC I lost everything (2 fs/5w) and weeped hysterically.  Fs/w HQs are potent but like ALL Eldar lack attrition.

As the warlocks and then the seers fall, the HQ gets weaker and weaker.  How threatening is a single fs on a jetbike to you?  It can pop tanks and give a few wounds (which get normal saves) and might have guide and/or fortune (which is pricy on one fs).  Now start figuring in, fortune, guide, 2xmindwar, enhance, embolden from other members of the group - goo!  When the fs (or two) is all that is left, you've seriously hampered the squad already.

I still hold to concentrated fire as being the best method of getting rid of them... unless you have some large squads of mutants (LatD) to waste/tie them up with.  Don't forget that you don't have to kill something to take it out of the game.  Give it something to chew on for a long time that it can't possibly regain its points on... "nurglings" come to mind.
Athaga Mor
40k - Deathguard CSM, Deathskullz Orks, Daemons, IG Traitors

Current project: painting my new chaos warhound titan

 


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