Topic: 40k gun question

[Col. Jack O'Neill]

Okay, I have a kind of random question about guns in 40k.  Looking at Dawn of War, and Tau Fire Warrior, as well as books and pictures, I am kind of confused.  First, is a bolter a machine gun like in DoW, or is it like a (rapid firing) mini rocket launcher like in tau fire warrior?  Is a las-bolt a beam like in DoW or is it like a blaster rifle from star wars?   
Thanks in advance 

[The Procrastinator]

A bolter is a rapid firing weapon, launching projectiles that will explode seconds after impact. So yes, it is a mini rocket launcher; but to a space marine it's a pissy little gat. As to the lasgun round I'll leave it to the pros.

Cheers

[Kage2020]

Welcome to the world of "style over substance," Col Jack ONeill...

Kage

[Irandrura]

Okay, I have a kind of random question about guns in 40k.  Looking at Dawn of War, and Tau Fire Warrior, as well as books and pictures, I am kind of confused.  First, is a bolter a machine gun like in DoW, or is it like a (rapid firing) mini rocket launcher like in tau fire warrior?  Is a las-bolt a beam like in DoW or is it like a blaster rifle from star wars?

Long story short: the automatic RPG launcher, and the beams.

[Rasmus]

It is a lot like light; test it as a particle and it is a particle. Test it as a wave and it is a wave.
The answer to your question is Yes - it is just as you describe it. And it is not at all confusing.

[Fire_Vyper]

I always liked to think of the las rifle as it is hown in DOW as the idea of a laser projectile like in STar wars is kinda odd( a laser in a continuos beam of light)

[The Procrastinator]

I'm pretty sure the blasters in star wars weren't lasers, they were launching plasma blasts. I think.

Cheers

[Khodexus]

In the Starwars RPG, they describe blasters as wrapping highly charged photons in an em bubble and firing them at high speeds, but not nearly the speed of light.  This increases the energy efficiency, by decreasing wasted energy, but also incidentally sacrifices accuracy for a more powerful 'punch'.

I don't know how that sort of concept would work up to real physics/science, but that's how they explained it in that.

Personally I much preffer the Dawn of War game's take on lasguns, and how they look/function, thematically.

As for bolters, the closest thing we have to them today, are some tank shells that only recently have been developed that have a built in scram jet to increase their velocity after they are fired.  Add an explosive warhead, and scale it down to a man (marine) portable version, and there you go.

It's a machine gun that rapidly fires bullets with built in miniature rocket boosters and explosive tips.

"-That is all."

[malicant]

I'm pretty sure the blasters in star wars weren't lasers, they were launching plasma blasts. I think.

Cheers

Bang on, they aren't lasers, they fire super heated plasma. 

[Koval, Master Verispex]

Which in itself is something of a violation of physics as it's portrayed, and I even think Lucas or someone on his design team has said as much.

Unless you really can get self-sustaining "bubbles" around an equally self-sustaining plasma that would stop the stuff from blooming

[The Procrastinator]

But..but..It's STAR WARS!!!

[Rasmus]

Which in itself is something of a violation of physics as it's portrayed, and I even think Lucas or someone on his design team has said as much.

Unless you really can get self-sustaining "bubbles" around an equally self-sustaining plasma that would stop the stuff from blooming

You can. Star Wars is not, nor has it ever been, science fiction in its own right. It is space opera, and does not have to conform to physics, biology, chemistry or common sense.

It is odd that people object to the blaster, and the physics thereof, but not violently attack the existence of "The Force". One would think that a physist would attack the bigger target first, but no, seems rare.

[TDB]

It is odd that people object to the blaster, and the physics thereof, but not violently attack the existence of "The Force". One would think that a physist would attack the bigger target first, but no, seems rare.

It's not odd, it would be odd if people did target stuff like "the force" first since that was always basically magic.  The problem doesn't lie with magic that works in a certain universe, it's when reality is misapplied, like with lasers or plasma that the suspension of disbelief is broken.  From my experiences with people it is nearly always factors like this that pose the problems, not hyperspace, the force or shields.

[Khodexus]

Incidentally, I said photons, not plasma.

It's still light, just wrapped in energy that slows it down, or rather bounces it back and forth within a very small area as that bubble it shot towards the enemy.  It also creates a small explosive effect on impact when the bubble 'bursts'.

Which I believe is probably one of the reasons for doing it that way.  You get a more powerful shot, for less energy, you just have to deal with the slower, less accurate projectile to do it.

"-That is all."

[Sir_Godspeed]

It is odd that people object to the blaster, and the physics thereof, but not violently attack the existence of "The Force". One would think that a physist would attack the bigger target first, but no, seems rare.

It's not odd, it would be odd if people did target stuff like "the force" first since that was always basically magic.  The problem doesn't lie with magic that works in a certain universe, it's when reality is misapplied, like with lasers or plasma that the suspension of disbelief is broken.  From my experiences with people it is nearly always factors like this that pose the problems, not hyperspace, the force or shields.

Yup. I mean, in 40k the obvious violation of science is the Warp, but its so integral to the story, and "implausible" anyway, so we just accept it.

[The Procrastinator]

Yup. I mean, in 40k the obvious violation of science is the Warp, but its so integral to the story, and "implausible" anyway, so we just accept it.

Anyway, one of the biggest draws in 40k (for me at least) is the mysteries; I don't want everything to be layed out in front of me. I want to want to know!

Cheers

[TDB]

Incidentally, I said photons, not plasma.

If that was to me i was referencing the problems with keeping plasma in discrete packets (and storing/firing it which we had an interesting discussion about a while ago) like in 40k rather than your post.

[Khodexus]

I thought you (or someone) was talking about plasma in refference to Star Wars "blaster" weapons, which I'd mentioned were supposed to be photon based (according to the RPG books).

If I was wrong, then I apologize.

"-That is all."

[Sir_Godspeed]

Yup. I mean, in 40k the obvious violation of science is the Warp, but its so integral to the story, and "implausible" anyway, so we just accept it.

Anyway, one of the biggest draws in 40k (for me at least) is the mysteries; I don't want everything to be layed out in front of me. I want to want to know!

Cheers

Agree! Much like in Real Life.

[Lachdonin]

Just as an asside, we have weapons that were astoundingly similar in principal to a Bolter. IE; they fired small, self propelled rockets with a fractional delayed fuse (they would explode inside the target rather than against it). These were called Gyro-Jets, Designed in the late 70's i think, and came in a pistol and rifle form, both of which were capable of semi-automatic fire. 3 rounds a burst i think, 6 - 12 rounds a clip. Anyway, they never caught on, and now its hard to find ammo for them thats under $12k a round.

As for Lasguns, the argument seems to depend entirely on wether they Las means Laser, as it does in the Dune universe, or if its an acronym for something. The fluff and descriptions in Codex's seems to indicate it is, indeed, a Laser, which means the DOW versions would be more accurate, though even those have their problems.