Topic: "Companies" in non-Space Marine (Ultramarine) armies.

[Balthraka]

Hey all;

I just have a question regarding "companies" or army organisations in armies other than the Smurfs (or specifically the UltraSmurfs).

I am very interested in making a full "company" or somesuch of an army; however I don't really have any interest in doing this with the aforementioned Smurfs.
So; I was wondering if anyone knows (I am hopeless with fluff) if there are any other armies that have a written down and solid structure such as that of the Space Marines.

Thanks in advance everybody!
-B

[YuenglingDragon]

The company structure as written by Roboute Guilliman is used by many Chapters.

Even divergent chapters often have some form of the company system.  Dark Angels spring to mind.

[BearBitesHurt]

I think you'd be better served asking which Chapters don't use the Company organization set forth by the Codex Astartes.  The Space Wolves and the Iron Hands come immediately to mind.

I would also point out that according to the Apocalypse Data sheet for a Space Marine Company it consists of:

6 Tactical Squads
2 Assault Squads
2 Devastator Squads
1 Command Squad.

Now the fluff in the new Codex will tell you that every squad has a Rhino(other than assault squads, obviously.)

What I've done with my company is replace the Rhinos with Drop Pods because...  well...  Drop Pods are awesome.

[Balthraka]

The company structure as written by Roboute Guilliman is used by many Chapters.

Even divergent chapters often have some form of the company system.  Dark Angels spring to mind.

Sorry...
I think my question may not have been written clearly enough...
I am not looking for another Smurf chapter. I am looking for another ARMY that uses some sort of organisation that one could aspire to.

I think you'd be better served asking which Chapters don't use the Company organization set forth by the Codex Astartes.  The Space Wolves and the Iron Hands come immediately to mind.

I would also point out that according to the Apocalypse Data sheet for a Space Marine Company it consists of:

6 Tactical Squads
2 Assault Squads
2 Devastator Squads
1 Command Squad.

Now the fluff in the new Codex will tell you that every squad has a Rhino(other than assault squads, obviously.)

What I've done with my company is replace the Rhinos with Drop Pods because...  well...  Drop Pods are awesome.

See above.

-B

[YuenglingDragon]

Understood.  Terminology issue.  I generally only figure SMurf to mean Ultramarine or vanilla space marine.

Imperial Guard are also structured but in a smaller scale.  I can't think of anything similar in other armies.

[Daedalus_Mk_V]

Cadian IG have a lot of fluff prebuilt about Company size and organization, especially the Cadian 8th. That said, the IG fluff is so flexible that you can pretty have whatever sized force you want called pretty much anything you want.
Tau use Cadres, but it's a rather loosely defined term. The benefit is that you can organize your Cadre however you like, but the bad thing is that there's no real set frame to work from, though there are some pretty decent size comparisons.
Nobody else really has a straight-up, organized, unit-based military (Closest are the Sisters of Battle, but AFAIK there's no real fluff on how they are really organized, so I'm not sure how much they fit what you're looking for). But if you want something that you're given what a Company looks like and build it from there, IG is the place to look.

[Fafnir]

Grey Knights, aside from retinues for Grand Masters, deploy depending on whoever's there whenever they're needed. It's essentially one big 3000 man company that deploys as needed, really.

... just trying to add a little something.

[Locarno]

Imperial Guard. Have a look in Epic: Armageddon and/or Apocalypse and Apocalypse Reload for some understanding of regimental organisations. They vary from regiment to regiment, but broadly the organisation is:


 

Squad ~ 10 men
l
Platoon (Squad x 3-5 + junior officer) ~ 50 men 
l
Company (platoon x 3-5 + senior officer + heavy weapons) ~ 100-200 men
l
Regiment (a number of companies - 5-6 for smaller regiments like Valhallans, 20-30 for mid sided ones like Cadians and up to 200 for big units like the Death Korps)

Tanks are organised in a similar fashion, going tank - squadron(3) - company (10) and so on. By the time you get above regiments, there's not much coherent organisation; you'll get infantry companies, mechanised companies and sentinal walker companies all part of the same regiment, for example.

[Alienscar]

Hey all;
So; I was wondering if anyone knows (I am hopeless with fluff) if there are any other armies that have a written down and solid structure such as that of the Space Marines.

Thanks in advance everybody!
-B

I'm like you when it comes to fluff. I've got DE, Ork & SM codices and none of the other 2 have anything like the SM organisation. What about making a "full" Organisation Chart for some other army though.

[Mr.Tanks]

With the Imperial Guard the company/regiment organisation is prety much in the codex, within game limits of course.

It is a command section (in the case of the Cadian 8th this is Usarkar E. Creed and his retinue) Then up to 6 platoons which consist of a platoon command squad and 6 squads with heavy weapon support teams, Elite troops such as storm troopers and armoured fist squads.

Tanks and mobile artillery are drawn from different companies to support the infantry, Infantry and Armour are never mixed in comapanies, but obviously can be in game. Sentinels serve as recon and support units in both Armoured and Infantry companies.

For information on Armoured comapanies I suggest reading Imperial Armour volume 1, it provides a very full background on organisation and vehicles.

Hope this helps.

[ravenklath]

Sisters are set up with varying different orginizations but i found at one time i Believe in the Apocalypse book it has one set up

1 Cannoness
1 Palatine
12 BSS Squads
6 Retributor Squads
4 Dominion Squads
1 Seraphem Squad
2 Repentia Squads

*Note this is just from Memory and may not be correct

[Lorizael]

With the Imperial Guard the company organisation is prety much in the codex, within game limits of course.

It is a command section (in the case of the Cadian 8th this is Usarkar E. Creed and his retinue) Then up to 6 platoons which consist of a platoon command squad and 6 squads with heavy weapon support teams, Elite troops such as storm troopers and armoured fist squads.

The Cadian 8th are a Regiment rather than a company. It consists of several companies. The picture of the large army in the IG codex shows half of the Cadian 8th's current strength and is at 12 companies.

Use Locarno's post as better info for a full IG company.

[Benis]

Isn't this a background question?

Many non-imperial armies aren't really organised in a standard method or lack any real organisation than biggest/strongest at the top.

Orks would be impossible to show a specific organisation for, the same goes for Chaos (although some legions and renegade chapters can still hold a measure of organisation). These forces are bent around the will of their strongest member, the Warboos for Orks or the Chaos Lord for Chaos.

Forces such as Craftworld Eldar and Dark Eldar probably have some organisational standards but these will vary between Craftworlds, Kabals and even conflicts.

The only three other forces that I can imagine actually utilise a highly structured organisation is the Tau, Tyranids and Necrons but there hasn't been so much information on their structural tendencies. Tyranids might actually be closer to my comments of the Eldar kin come to think about it.

[Mr.Tanks]

The Cadian 8th are a Regiment rather than a company. It consists of several companies. The picture of the large army in the IG codex shows half of the Cadian 8th's current strength and is at 12 companies.

Stop being so picky, you know what I mean, besides, the OP said company, and a company is manageble within game limits. But yeah, Locarno's post describes it pretty well.

[[dixon]]

Get a manta, fill it up with Tau, congratulations you now have a hunter cadre.

[Alienscar]

Sorry...
I think my question may not have been written clearly enough...
I am not looking for another Smurf chapter. I am looking for another ARMY that uses some sort of organisation that one could aspire to.

That's well and good Raktra but I believe the OP is after an army that it isn't any kind of Space Marine. From the way this post is progressing I'm guessing that the OP is stuck with IG as the only army that can come close to Space Marines in the way that they are organised.

[Raktra (So long, I guess)]

Testicles, that's what happens when I don't read things properly.

Post removed!

[Cpt. Banjo]

My Ghost Bears, who as the name suggests are a blatant rip-off of BattleTech, have completely thrown the company organisation out the window. The Ghost Bears are only one of a dozen or so clans that forms a loose confederacy, each of which is its own self-contained mini-chapter numbering anywhere from 100 to 600 warriors.

[Balthraka]

Understood.  Terminology issue.  I generally only figure SMurf to mean Ultramarine or vanilla space marine.

Imperial Guard are also structured but in a smaller scale.  I can't think of anything similar in other armies.

Yep!
Just a miscomunication...
Thanks!

Cadian IG have a lot of fluff prebuilt about Company size and organization, especially the Cadian 8th. That said, the IG fluff is so flexible that you can pretty have whatever sized force you want called pretty much anything you want.
Tau use Cadres, but it's a rather loosely defined term. The benefit is that you can organize your Cadre however you like, but the bad thing is that there's no real set frame to work from, though there are some pretty decent size comparisons.
Nobody else really has a straight-up, organized, unit-based military (Closest are the Sisters of Battle, but AFAIK there's no real fluff on how they are really organized, so I'm not sure how much they fit what you're looking for). But if you want something that you're given what a Company looks like and build it from there, IG is the place to look.

Sounds reasonable...
IG ey? Dont think I have the willpower to paint that many models...
Haha.

Grey Knights, aside from retinues for Grand Masters, deploy depending on whoever's there whenever they're needed. It's essentially one big 3000 man company that deploys as needed, really.

... just trying to add a little something.

Sounds fair...
But almost the opposite of what I want...
Thanks though!

Imperial Guard. Have a look in Epic: Armageddon and/or Apocalypse and Apocalypse Reload for some understanding of regimental organisations. They vary from regiment to regiment, but broadly the organisation is:


 

Squad ~ 10 men
l
Platoon (Squad x 3-5 + junior officer) ~ 50 men 
l
Company (platoon x 3-5 + senior officer + heavy weapons) ~ 100-200 men
l
Regiment (a number of companies - 5-6 for smaller regiments like Valhallans, 20-30 for mid sided ones like Cadians and up to 200 for big units like the Death Korps)

Tanks are organised in a similar fashion, going tank - squadron(3) - company (10) and so on. By the time you get above regiments, there's not much coherent organisation; you'll get infantry companies, mechanised companies and sentinal walker companies all part of the same regiment, for example.

WOW!
That's excellent... However I really don't think I can paint that much... Haha.
However I will most definitely consider it because it seems to be the only option.

Hey all;
So; I was wondering if anyone knows (I am hopeless with fluff) if there are any other armies that have a written down and solid structure such as that of the Space Marines.

Thanks in advance everybody!
-B

I'm like you when it comes to fluff. I've got DE, Ork & SM codices and none of the other 2 have anything like the SM organisation. What about making a "full" Organisation Chart for some other army though.

I was thinking that actually.

Just choose an army and fill out an FOC.
However that still could leave me without a lot of things because I would have to choose what to take...

With the Imperial Guard the company/regiment organisation is prety much in the codex, within game limits of course.

It is a command section (in the case of the Cadian 8th this is Usarkar E. Creed and his retinue) Then up to 6 platoons which consist of a platoon command squad and 6 squads with heavy weapon support teams, Elite troops such as storm troopers and armoured fist squads.

Tanks and mobile artillery are drawn from different companies to support the infantry, Infantry and Armour are never mixed in comapanies, but obviously can be in game. Sentinels serve as recon and support units in both Armoured and Infantry companies.

For information on Armoured comapanies I suggest reading Imperial Armour volume 1, it provides a very full background on organisation and vehicles.

Hope this helps.

It does indeed.
However I really don't think IG is gonna happen with me though.

Sisters are set up with varying different orginizations but i found at one time i Believe in the Apocalypse book it has one set up

1 Cannoness
1 Palatine
12 BSS Squads
6 Retributor Squads
4 Dominion Squads
1 Seraphem Squad
2 Repentia Squads

*Note this is just from Memory and may not be correct

Hmm... Very interesting!
Does anybody have a supporting statment of reference for this?
Because this does indeed interest me.

With the Imperial Guard the company organisation is prety much in the codex, within game limits of course.

It is a command section (in the case of the Cadian 8th this is Usarkar E. Creed and his retinue) Then up to 6 platoons which consist of a platoon command squad and 6 squads with heavy weapon support teams, Elite troops such as storm troopers and armoured fist squads.

The Cadian 8th are a Regiment rather than a company. It consists of several companies. The picture of the large army in the IG codex shows half of the Cadian 8th's current strength and is at 12 companies.

Use Locarno's post as better info for a full IG company.

Ah ok.
I don't think I need more than a full company...
That should really be enough... No? Haha.

Isn't this a background question?

Many non-imperial armies aren't really organised in a standard method or lack any real organisation than biggest/strongest at the top.

Orks would be impossible to show a specific organisation for, the same goes for Chaos (although some legions and renegade chapters can still hold a measure of organisation). These forces are bent around the will of their strongest member, the Warboos for Orks or the Chaos Lord for Chaos.

Forces such as Craftworld Eldar and Dark Eldar probably have some organisational standards but these will vary between Craftworlds, Kabals and even conflicts.

The only three other forces that I can imagine actually utilise a highly structured organisation is the Tau, Tyranids and Necrons but there hasn't been so much information on their structural tendencies. Tyranids might actually be closer to my comments of the Eldar kin come to think about it.

Not a background question really...
I don't think at least...

Well Chaos would be great...
But as you say I dont think they have any real structure.
Anyone have an info on Tau, Necrons or Tyranids.

The Cadian 8th are a Regiment rather than a company. It consists of several companies. The picture of the large army in the IG codex shows half of the Cadian 8th's current strength and is at 12 companies.

Stop being so picky, you know what I mean, besides, the OP said company, and a company is manageble within game limits. But yeah, Locarno's post describes it pretty well.

Well I dont expect it to be useable in game play...
I just used the word 'Company' because that's what the SM's use. And I figured people would know what I meant.

Get a manta, fill it up with Tau, congratulations you now have a hunter cadre.

Excellent!
Doesn't the Manta come already filled up?


-B

[slargy_of_thor]

ig are structured in companies although it is not effective i.e there are seperate companies for infantry,tanks and arty... at the mon=ment i own an inf company (3-6 platoons) and a tank company (10 tanks including a "ace tanker" usually considered the leader)