Customising the Imperial Guard

Started by Calamity, December 16, 2015, 08:21:10 PM

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Sir_Godspeed

We had a couple of companies of Combat Engineers in the Engineering Battalion which we shared camp with in the army. Their role was varied, but one of the things I saw them do in the field was lay mines and clear minefields (sometimes simply by blowing it up). They also cleared other obstacles, although that overlaps with the role of Pioneers (which, in fairness, we didn't have a specific unit for), and of course could lay those same obstacles (barb wire, etc.)

I'm not sure if this is useful, but that's what I know about the subject.

Calamity

@ Ebon Star

Yes, Line infantry would be the typical wall of lasguns/heavy weapons type army.  The vast majority of the IG regiments in fact.  Everyone from Cadians to Mordians to Valhallans.  A standard vanilla type force.  Light infantry are everything from Catachan Jungle Fighters to Elysian Drop Troops.  The specialised IG regiments.  Your idea, stealth or shrouded for the first turn, could work.  The marines have something similar for their scouts.

And yeah, anything to mix up the guard.  At the moment all lists are largely the same, and that's a shame.  :P

By the way, what do you think of the Iron Discipline doctrine?  Roll 3D6 for fear, morale and pinning tests, discarding the highest, whilst within 12" of an officer or commissar.

@ Sir_Godspeed

That is useful thank you.  At least now I know exactly what it is that combat engineers actually do.  Making rules for that will be tricky but I'm sure it could be done.

Also, for making doctrines, this might be really cheap but how about 'borrowing' other armies rules under a different name to present doctrines.  The Tau's Supporting Fire rule for example?  I know that's not very original but if it represents them best then we not?  And the idea is, the guard might have the fanciest gear, or be that solid in a fight, but they should be versatile.  It's a big Galaxy after all.

Ebon Star

Quote from: Skitarii Santa on December 30, 2015, 02:39:46 PMBy the way, what do you think of the Iron Discipline doctrine?  Roll 3D6 for fear, morale and pinning tests, discarding the highest, whilst within 12" of an officer or commissar.

Iron Discipline is perfectly fine in it's current state.

Calamity

Quote from: Ebon Star on December 30, 2015, 02:44:00 PM
Iron Discipline is perfectly fine in it's current state.

Good stuff!  It's a little different to the rule forge world and the old codex had, but I was looking at the commissars aura of discipline rule as inspiration.  As you can see, my one is similar to AoD but different, and compliments it pretty well I think.

And thank you too for resurrecting this thread!  :)  I'm always keen to keep it going.  I just wish I had the means to field test my ideas at the moment.

Ebon Star

Quote from: Skitarii Santa on December 31, 2015, 03:59:16 AMGood stuff!  It's a little different to the rule forge world and the old codex had, but I was looking at the commissars aura of discipline rule as inspiration.  As you can see, my one is similar to AoD but different, and compliments it pretty well I think.

And thank you too for resurrecting this thread!  :)  I'm always keen to keep it going.  I just wish I had the means to field test my ideas at the moment.

Eh, if you wanna call it even there's the new thread in the Project Log section (see signiture). There's also a couple of other threads I'll be making today, I just hope it won't be to the extent of flooding the place ^^;

Calamity

Quote from: Ebon Star on December 31, 2015, 04:07:53 AM
Eh, if you wanna call it even there's the new thread in the Project Log section (see signiture). There's also a couple of other threads I'll be making today, I just hope it won't be to the extent of flooding the place ^^;

Consider it done.  :)

I'd like to review the other doctrines I made:

Airborne Assault is obviously to let you make your army as drop troopers, like the Elysians and Harakoni.  It represents the fact that they have Grav Chute training and equipment as standard, and are thus better at it.  So they can perform higher altitude insertions (deep strike), and they can guide themselves better out of a Valkyrie.  The reroll is there so as to not render Valkyries as useless.

However, another idea I had is to allow the unit to treat Valkyries as an assault vehicle if they disembark from it in the normal matter.  Forge World did something similar to this for the Elysian Drop Troops list.  Look at that big ramp at the back...can you picture the troops storming out of that?  Maybe if the whole squad deploys out of that door it can assault?

What should we do?

Ebon Star

Quote from: Skitarii Santa on December 31, 2015, 06:12:50 AMHowever, another idea I had is to allow the unit to treat Valkyries as an assault vehicle if they disembark from it in the normal matter.  Forge World did something similar to this for the Elysian Drop Troops list.  Look at that big ramp at the back...can you picture the troops storming out of that?  Maybe if the whole squad deploys out of that door it can assault?

This idea sounds a lot more hilarious. Go for it.

Besides, Combined Squads kinda changes how the old "All Infantry Deep Strike" version works. Can you imagine allowing a Combined Squad blob of 50 Guardsmen to suddenly Deep Strike? With added Flamer/Melta?

Calamity

#27
Quote from: Ebon Star on December 31, 2015, 06:14:58 AM
This idea sounds a lot more hilarious. Go for it.

Besides, Combined Squads kinda changes how the old "All Infantry Deep Strike" version works. Can you imagine allowing a Combined Squad blob of 50 Guardsmen to suddenly Deep Strike? With added Flamer/Melta?

Oh my god...I got it!  :o

OK, slight change to the Regimental Organisations.  We now have Line Infantry as the 'Normal IG', then we have Drop/Grav Infantry and Mechanized Infantry.  Light Infantry (Rangers?) instead can be a skill that any of them can take.

Mechanized Infantry get the dedicated transport squadrons and tank orders for officers, and drop infantry get deep strike and...something else.  Meanwhile, only Line Infantry get Combined Squad...and something else as well.  So Mechanized Infantry and Drop Infantry favor small unit tactics over the usual wall of weapons that the IG do.

So, for the Emperor's Shield Infantry Company, if it's Mechanized they get free transports, if its airborne they get a rule that assists with their descent, and line infantry get stuff too.

Meanwhile, Stormtroopers can use either the mechanized or airborne doctrines, because they're that good.  So they can either act as paratroopers or a fast moving ground force in their tauroxes. 

How does this sound?

Ebon Star

Quote from: Skitarii Santa on December 31, 2015, 06:43:48 AMOh my god...I got it!  :o

OK, slight change to the Regimental Organisations.  We now have Line Infantry as the 'Normal IG', then we have Drop/Grav Infantry and Mechanized Infantry.  Light Infantry (Rangers?) instead can be a skill that any of them can take.

Okay so far...

Quote from: Skitarii Santa on December 31, 2015, 06:43:48 AMMechanized Infantry get the dedicated transport squadrons and tank orders for officers, and drop infantry get deep strike and...something else.  Meanwhile, only Line Infantry get Combined Squad...and something else as well.  So Mechanized Infantry and Drop Infantry favor small unit tactics over the usual wall of weapons that the IG do.

Excellent, breaking up more of that Metagaming monopoly...

Quote from: Skitarii Santa on December 31, 2015, 06:43:48 AMSo, for the Emperor's Shield Infantry Company, if it's Mechanized they get free transports, if its airborne they get a rule that assists with their descent, and line infantry get stuff too.

But still keeping without Combined Squads, right?

Quote from: Skitarii Santa on December 31, 2015, 06:43:48 AMMeanwhile, Stormtroopers can use either the mechanized or airborne doctrines, because they're that good.  So they can either act as paratroopers or a fast moving ground force in their tauroxes.

I don't know how to feel about this one. Stormtrooper Companies I feel are not only already represented well with the Militarum Tempestus book, but their training and such (ignoring GW's grimderp) is very different from the rank and file. The closest real life analogue I can think of is a SAS/Delta Force/Spetsnaz Regiment. If we're going to give them the Doctrine Overhaul, it'd probably be more in character to go with some different bonuses.

My £9001.

Calamity

Sorry for the late reply.  I've been trying to consolidate everything from here together with not much success.  I've also been distracted by a mishap with my own army that's really thrown my confidence.  :(

I'm going to ignore the sort of regiment doctrines for now because they're tricky to work out.  Instead I just want to focus on the skill doctrines, like sharpshooters and iron discipline.  I need more.  Much more.

There was one back in the day called Hardened Fighters.  +1 WS.  Should that be brought back?

Ebon Star

Quote from: Skitarii Santa on January  2, 2016, 07:16:32 AM
Sorry for the late reply.  I've been trying to consolidate everything from here together with not much success.  I've also been distracted by a mishap with my own army that's really thrown my confidence.  :(

I'm going to ignore the sort of regiment doctrines for now because they're tricky to work out.  Instead I just want to focus on the skill doctrines, like sharpshooters and iron discipline.  I need more.  Much more.

There was one back in the day called Hardened Fighters.  +1 WS.  Should that be brought back?

It's not too game breaking, but it does need something that can work with it, like Warrior Weapons for example. That said, how would Hardened Fighters work in the new system? Who can take it? Who can't take it? Will it cost points to upgrade a unit like the old version?

Calamity

Quote from: Ebon Star on January  2, 2016, 07:28:19 AM
It's not too game breaking, but it does need something that can work with it, like Warrior Weapons for example. That said, how would Hardened Fighters work in the new system? Who can take it? Who can't take it? Will it cost points to upgrade a unit like the old version?

It would be like the other doctrines: every company command, veteran, and infantry platoon squad in your army will get it if you take it.  I don't want it to cost anything if I can help it; the idea is that they should all be free, like a Space Marine's Chapter Tactics.

The way I see it, +1 WS is not that much of a bonus for IG.  They still have low strength, no real cc weapons and poor armor.  It won't turn them into deadly assault troops.  If anything, it only reduces the amount of enemy attacks that land on them.

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