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Online Lord of Winter and War

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40k Players Survey
« on: November 5, 2021, 08:23:30 AM »
Hey folks, passing this information along. Games Workshop is conducting a player survey of it's 40k player base, good to take a minute or two and pass along your two cents.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/11/04/your-chance-to-make-warhammer-40000-even-better-with-the-gamers-survey/
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Offline Wyddr

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Re: 40k Players Survey
« Reply #1 on: November 5, 2021, 11:21:19 PM »
Filled it out. Told them the rules are getting a bit out of hand again. Game has big barriers to entry these days.

Offline Blazinghand

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Re: 40k Players Survey
« Reply #2 on: November 9, 2021, 03:19:31 PM »
Replied and let them know my thoughts, which are somewhat similar. Interestingly, I kinda miss the period right after the start of 8e when everyone got a rules update and things were relatively manageable.
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Offline magenb

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Re: 40k Players Survey
« Reply #3 on: November 9, 2021, 04:08:32 PM »
yes, I also included that the sales cycle is killing the game, new models given obviously OP rules then nerfed a few weeks later.

You can not balance a game where abilities are not point costed, so starts need to be changed to wargear option for the unit.

Movement distances are insane, some units being able to consistently charge more than 8 inches, is what made Flammer's near pointless. The flip side is now you have a 12 inch range, they are OP due to stupid deep striking rules. a unit on foot shouldn't be able to run just as fast as a jetbike.. and deep striking needs to scatter again, so there is a risk/reward scenario happening.

Volume of dice is also  problem, what's the point in rolling 120 dice... you may as well just say remove the unit and save the time for rolling.


Offline Myen'Tal

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Re: 40k Players Survey
« Reply #4 on: November 9, 2021, 07:29:26 PM »
I too filled out the survey.

Anyone notice this article on warhammer community?

It can't be by coincidence  8).

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/11/09/game-balance-is-at-the-heart-of-this-official-warhammer-40000-rules-update/
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Offline magenb

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Re: 40k Players Survey
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2021, 12:02:10 AM »
GW has been claiming all of their updates are to improve balance, which is techncially true, but you can't balance a system when you have mechanics that act as multipliers that are not costed, even if everyone had the same number of command points and access to the same strats, some strats just work better with some units..

Starts are better left in narrative and campaign settings, where you have to earn command points and don't automatically get them every game.

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Re: 40k Players Survey
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2021, 01:11:26 PM »
I too filled out the survey.

Anyone notice this article on warhammer community?

It can't be by coincidence  8).

http://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/11/09/game-balance-is-at-the-heart-of-this-official-warhammer-40000-rules-update/

Since the survey is not finished yet, I imagine this update was planned before the survey was implemented. I think the regularity of the balance dataslates in the future can be attributed to the survey though.

I'm very happy with all the changes in the update, a nice surprise.
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Offline Wyddr

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Re: 40k Players Survey
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2021, 02:39:06 PM »
My only real problem with the update is that they KEEP CHANGING point values to the point where it's becoming really hard to plan and build an army. Drukhari points have changed, what, 3 times in the past year? It's getting so I can't keep track. I don't build armies all that fast, so this is really irritating. 

At this rate, they're going to drive me straight to playing with (shudder) Power Levels.

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Re: 40k Players Survey
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2021, 04:44:22 PM »
To be fair, drukhari have continued to be pretty broken competitively even after all the previous changes. Hopefully this update can tone their powerlevel down noticeably.

I'm happy to see balance changes, especially playing before 8th edition, where things were just broken forever.
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Offline Wyddr

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Re: 40k Players Survey
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2021, 09:13:27 AM »
Yes, granted, but maybe they should, I don't know, PLAYTEST through their changes before publicizing them so they only need to change them once?

And, notably, nobody's going out of their way to to do anything for the unplayably BAD factions. Or at least certainly not at the level they're going after the good ones.

Are Chaos Daemons even a playable army anymore? And I know Tau have their codex coming, but its been a long time for them even in this edition with barely so much as a nudge.

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Re: 40k Players Survey
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2021, 09:23:14 AM »
I think that it's really hard to anticipate the effect of any balance update. Gw playtest team is a lot smaller than thousands of people worldwide playing the game.

I do appreciate that they make small points adjustments,  and then wait and see how that works and then see if further change is needed, rather than just doing huge sweeping changes in one go which can cause things to swing too far in the other direction.

I do appreciate trying to bring up the weaker armies (this update actually addresses that, which I was really surprised by). But, there is always the need to wait for the book to be brought entirely up to the same level. 2/3 of my armies have no eta on when they are being updated, so I feel you on that.

Chaos demons are very playable, but not as mono demons.

Tau, gsc, and guard are all languishing the most, and 2/3 of those are getting new books fairly quickly.

I just want everyone to have crusade rules so my club can play a sweet crusade campaign and everyone gets the same out of it.
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Offline magenb

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Re: 40k Players Survey
« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2021, 04:34:00 PM »
I think that it's really hard to anticipate the effect of any balance update. Gw playtest team is a lot smaller than thousands of people worldwide playing the game.

Sure, and some things will get missed, but but how could you NOT play test the DE codex and NOT think it wasn't over powering to start with...  Same can be said for Admech... They also have 3rd party play tester, who provide feedback, so it's not just the internal team.  Now if you own internal team is soo incompetent they can't work this out, then maybe hire some of the tournament winners, clearly that one guy that found the original codex for DE was unbeatable would be a good candidate.

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Re: 40k Players Survey
« Reply #12 on: November 12, 2021, 10:36:41 AM »
The basic side effect of this is that I'm putting my Drukhari project on the shelf for the time being until they cool off a bit and I can have reasonable odds that the models I buy will be models I can use.

This is a round-about way of saying it's going to be Thousand Sons for the next little while for me. Nobody is going to fiddle much with them, because they're just never good enough for anyone to care.

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Re: 40k Players Survey
« Reply #13 on: November 12, 2021, 08:42:49 PM »
This is a thoroughly depressing conversation to be following as someone that was getting back into the hobby side of things so that he could play with his son. Guess I'm going to have to wait a while for things to stabilise...

... And, well, stick with the painting and modeling side of things.

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Re: 40k Players Survey
« Reply #14 on: November 12, 2021, 09:55:29 PM »
It's 40K. Spin around a few times and all the rules will change with the seasons.
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Re: 40k Players Survey
« Reply #15 on: November 12, 2021, 10:24:41 PM »
And surely you can just house-rule some things if you think point costs are off? Or just go with whatever's in the codices, changes be damned?

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Re: 40k Players Survey
« Reply #16 on: November 12, 2021, 10:35:37 PM »
If you're training the sprog you could always order an old edition and codexes and run it as long as you're constant.
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Re: 40k Players Survey
« Reply #17 on: November 13, 2021, 07:41:15 AM »
I'd also point out again that so long as you pick a faction that isn't currently considered overpowered, nobody is going to mess with it much.

I do find the quarterly updates irritating instead of helpful, though. I gave up tournament play back in the hot mess that was 7th edition and we're right back there again.

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Re: 40k Players Survey
« Reply #18 on: November 13, 2021, 08:40:46 AM »
If anything, the message has become clear.  Don't chase the meta.  If you are buying armies and units because they are the latest hot thing in the tournament scene, you're going to be regretting that. 

Build armies and units that you are excited about and want to have fun with, and you're pretty much going to be solid going forward.  Just be aware that if you are going for an army that has not received a 9th ed codex, things are going to be a little rough.
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Re: 40k Players Survey
« Reply #19 on: November 13, 2021, 09:30:47 AM »
If anything, the message has become clear.  Don't chase the meta.  If you are buying armies and units because they are the latest hot thing in the tournament scene, you're going to be regretting that. 

Build armies and units that you are excited about and want to have fun with, and you're pretty much going to be solid going forward.  Just be aware that if you are going for an army that has not received a 9th ed codex, things are going to be a little rough.

The only problem is when you buy an army because you want to have fun with it and then it just SO HAPPENS to be the latest hot thing.  :-\

Been planning a Wych Cult for years and years. I finally get around to doing it, and the point values of all my stuff keeps changing before I can even get the army ready for the table.

Anyway, I'm done whining. Even over and above this specific gripe of mine, the game has become much harder to keep track of than, say, in 8th or 4th-6th editions. This is 7th Edition level of nonsense, and it's what killed my old gaming group dead. Not relishing the idea of going through it again.

 


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