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Author Topic: A question for 40K fluff experts!  (Read 1476 times)

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Offline 40kfomPodmaster

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A question for 40K fluff experts!
« on: April 5, 2011, 05:01:19 PM »
Evening all...

Now then...a question for you all about a well known piece of 40K back story.

My own copy of the 40K Rogue Trader rules has long since dissapeared (dont ask), but I do still have some ancient tomes (Realm of Chaos etc). What I want to know is this: It's well known that there were 20 original Space Marine legions, half of which were naughty boys, 8 of which were the good guys and two of which were "mysteriously wiped from exisitence" (ooer missus...no obvious plot devices here!). So...where is the best source of ANY fluff about the two missing legions? Anything at all...bits of flavour text in codexes, a mention or two in a rulebook...where? I suspect the best sources are older ones (Rogue Trader etc), but any pointers would be most useful and greatly appreciated.

I've been around a while myself in this hobby, thus I know theres something out there about this...just cant put my finger on where it is amongst all the stuff I've read in the 20 years I've been into this!!

Offline Bumbles

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Re: A question for 40K fluff experts!
« Reply #1 on: April 5, 2011, 07:10:32 PM »
Wasn't it "nine traitor, nine nice, two missing" even from the get go?
Also, IIRC in RT weren't Space Marines more like modern Marines, in that you're recruited and trained and can walk or be booted out to become a mercenary?

Basically, all we know is:
- They're not just excommunicato traitorus, but all records are deleted (from the 4th ed rule book).
- The Primarchs swore an involatable oath to never speak of their two other brothers (Horus Heresy: The First Heretic)
- There were statues of them in a great hall on Terra, but they were either removed or destroyed (HH: The Lightning Tower (audio) Sigismund suggests doing the same to the traitor Primarchs, and Malcador makes veiled reference to the others IIRC).
- They MAY (or more likely it was an idea once, but has since been dropped) be Sigmar and Belakor from WFB.
- Inferentially, from everything said about them, they did something so bad the Emperor deleted them from history. It's possible that unlike the Thousand Sons, the Emperor's Children and the Raven Guard their geneseed wasn't recoverable from mutation/corruption or their Primarch was even more of a stubborn cuss then Russ, Vulkan and Khan (who all said "sod off mate" to the Emperor when he turned up).

Offline TDB

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Re: A question for 40K fluff experts!
« Reply #2 on: April 5, 2011, 08:04:18 PM »
Quote
So...where is the best source of ANY fluff about the two missing legions?

The Horus Heresy novels that Horus gave are basically the only source of information.  Beyond them having all their records deleted anyway.  The Rogue Trader rulebook talks about 1000 Chapters rather than 20 First Founding and later Foundings so any information would be later than that but to my knowledge there is nothing beyond Black Library's Horus Heresy series.
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Offline Fury

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Re: A question for 40K fluff experts!
« Reply #3 on: April 5, 2011, 09:21:51 PM »
The book "The First Heretic" hints at what happened to the missing two. It was very vague, and I don't recall it directly.

I think it's purposely left vague for those who want to "create a primarch" for their own legion, umm, I mean chapter. Or, to open up a completely speculative can of worms...Sigmar and Ulric?
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Offline Sir_Godspeed

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Re: A question for 40K fluff experts!
« Reply #4 on: April 5, 2011, 10:26:42 PM »
The book "The First Heretic" hints at what happened to the missing two. It was very vague, and I don't recall it directly.

I think it's purposely left vague for those who want to "create a primarch" for their own legion, umm, I mean chapter. Or, to open up a completely speculative can of worms...Sigmar and Ulric?

It used to be that way, but with the new focus on the Great Crusade and Horus Heresy era, there are several hints being dropped that the two Primarchs were somehow a big failure and the Emperor chose to try to remove any evidence they ever existed.

We can assume that they would have done this to the Traitor Legions as well, if it weren't for the fact that they're still out there and posing a very real threat. by extension, we can assume that the two lost legions no longer are any concern - most likely because they don't exist. As to why we have no clue.

The Chaos-induced vision horus had during the first trilogy of the HH series has him cracking open two primarch-tubes in the Emperor's lab and making some remark about them never reaching greatness/their potential or somesuch. Again, it's hard to make anything out of this because it's a Chaos vision.

Offline Swamp Rat

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Re: A question for 40K fluff experts!
« Reply #5 on: April 6, 2011, 12:25:42 PM »
Propsero Burns implies that Russ took at least one of them out, whilst First Heretic is of the opinion that the Ultramarines folded many of them into their own ranks ("The Ultramarines got pretty big after all that hoo-haa, knowhati'msayin'?").
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