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Author Topic: Too use Imperial Armour Guard Tanks or not.  (Read 2500 times)

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Offline Shas'Oink

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Re: Too use Imperial Armour Guard Tanks or not.
« Reply #20 on: May 14, 2007, 11:59:12 AM »
in my area most people dont really have a problem with people grabbing stuff from the Imperial Armour resources. anything without structure or mass points is ok.

as a note, we often make a point of explaining what the thing is and in many cases bring alternatives just in case someone has a particular greivance. for instance, one dark angel player here uses a heavy bolter mortis dreadnought - but if the opponent doesnt want to face it then it can be easily swapped out for a plasma cannon dread instead.

the most important thing though, is that one has the rules to hand. and its always nice to allow your opponent to see them before the game so he knows what to expect.

as has been mentioned it is often found that many choices from there are overcosted, and generally that seems to be a concious decision by the designers in an attempt to either retain balance or display the rarity of any particular piece of equipment.


Offline Archon_Yggdrisil

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Re: Too use Imperial Armour Guard Tanks or not.
« Reply #21 on: May 14, 2007, 02:08:28 PM »
But with something like flyers, while they aren't necessarily hard to beat, they add some more extra rules that you have to take into account. If you're not used to facing flyers, you might make some stupid mistake that you wouldn't have made if you were well versed in the flyer rules.

So it's not enough to just bring the rules with you.

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Offline Shas'Oink

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Re: Too use Imperial Armour Guard Tanks or not.
« Reply #22 on: May 14, 2007, 02:27:38 PM »
with something like tank variants - common for imperial guard and tau - its easy. yes, adding in things such as flyers does add more into teh mix, and thats why its important to explain such things to an opponent. just throwing a marauder bomber across the table without the enemy knowing what he's supposed to do it not fun for him/her, and thus defeats the object of the game.

Offline richelieu

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Re: Too use Imperial Armour Guard Tanks or not.
« Reply #23 on: May 15, 2007, 12:58:56 AM »
Regarding all IA stuff, I think they're perfectly fine to use, as long as you devote the proper Heavy Support or Fast Attack or whatever slots to them.  What I don't like is when people field nonstandard armies that aren't based around the regular force lists; ie an Armored company.  Those specialty armies, while very visually impressive and also cool, should only be used against another specialty army, not one based around the standard force organization list. 
Let's say I am facing a 1500 pt army of like 9 or 10 leman russes or some russes and a couple superheavies.  My army, about 60% of which is dogfaces with lasguns, cannot do a darn thing about those tanks, and what units I have that stand a chance vs all those tanks (my 3 tanks) are outnumbered 3 to 1 and get whomped in Rd 1.  It'd be even worse for an Ork player or a Tyranid player who has to face that armored company, because their infantry units which are so nice at fighting enemy infantry are pretty much useless against all those tanks.  That's why the 40K designers came up with the idea of balancing army lists by the force organization charts.   
But from what I have seen of the forgeworld and IA stuff, the individual units seem pretty balanced to me; I just don't want to see a whole army of IA superheavies. 
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Offline Shas'Oink

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Re: Too use Imperial Armour Guard Tanks or not.
« Reply #24 on: May 15, 2007, 06:34:37 AM »
as a note - the armoured company list is a games workshop chapter approved - and as such is more "legal" than a forgeworld.

the thing is that, so what if your lasguns can hurt a russ. if a marine player mounts up in rhinos or razorbakcs, and bundles in a bunch of predators and whirlwinds then those lasguns are still just as useless - but thats a codex army, and youll still have as much trouble!

Offline richelieu

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Re: Too use Imperial Armour Guard Tanks or not.
« Reply #25 on: May 15, 2007, 11:24:48 AM »
@Oink
That's absolutely true, and it mystifies me completely.  GW has always been really concerned about keeping armylists balanced, so I am at a loss as to why they would introduce a street legal armylist that virtually cannot be beaten by opponents' standard balanced forces. 
Your point about the space marines loading up on armor is a good one also, except even at their most armored up in a regular game you'd be facing three predators or dreadnoughts perhaps as heavy choices, maybe three landspeeders as fast attack and in some chapters three more dreadnoughts as elites.  That's nowhere near the armor that could be thrown at you by an armored company, when pretty much everyone from your force commander on down (except fast attack) can be a Leman Russ!!  And now with IA we're throwing Baneblades in there too!
My balanced infantry IG army could PROBABLY muster up enough autocannons, missile launchers, and heavy bolters to take on the SM "armored corps" from your example because I am shooting at AR 10-13 for the most part, and I am always backed up by two Russes and a Demolisher of my own. 
I simply do not own enough lascannon in my collection to take on the entire IG armored corps and win.  Also, I wouldn't have enough slots to field the lascannon support squads in as part of my command HQ.  With two command HQ sections I could get four lascannon teams, for a total of twelve lascannons.  Almost certainly not enough to take on all those tanks!
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Offline myles

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Re: Too use Imperial Armour Guard Tanks or not.
« Reply #26 on: May 15, 2007, 11:45:56 AM »
Well, I'm not going to say that it's easy to beat an armoured company with a normal balanced list (it's not!), but it's only totally impossible if you stick to just playing "line up and kill them all" games. If you actually play missions from the rulebook those tanks have to move if they want to win, and moving greatly decreases their resilience. If they move up they are exposing their side armour, as well as reducing their firepower. Add to that the fact that normal troops can take advantage of cover and the fact that their own models will always block LOS to their other models and you've got a recipe for a somewhat fairer game.

I suppose the only exception to this would be seek and destroy, but even then you'll have the advantage because you'll probably have more scoring units, so you can just hide them and gain points for them.

I don't know about IG, but my normal eldar list can handle an armoured company without too many problems. Then again, my normal eldar list has three vibrocannons, Eldrad and his eldritch storms, and a bunch of EMLs, so perhaps it's not quite fair. :D

Besides, the baneblades are a red herring as far as armoured company effectivness. As the superheavy rules stand now it is almost always better to have a lot of smaller tanks, just because they're harder to damage and can put out more firepower, all for less points. And in games where it's actually reasonable to have baneblades you'll be playing with so many points that it isn't even that noticeable anyway.
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Offline Chico

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Re: Too use Imperial Armour Guard Tanks or not.
« Reply #27 on: May 16, 2007, 07:15:55 AM »
I play an AC list, i both win and lose with it. Its can dish out a huge amount of damage.. but can take very little itself before huge drawbacks happen.. i had a game where i lost all 4 of my LRBT's in a single turn just leaving me with Chimeras and Griffions.

Also just because you can't beat a said army with another army type, doesn't make the first army overpowered. It just means certain army's will always find certain armies always tough to beat.

Same way as a IG force will find a Tau Gun Line a pain in the arse too deal with.

Also AC's army's tend to lose most missions, even Cleanse can be challenging at best.
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