Topic: Bad rep with Eldar?

[-Φ Ulfhedinn Φ- Servant of the Lord of Dark Delights]

Hey lads 

I'm having a lot of trouble getting games with my Eldar. I have so far fought 4 times to different people using different lists and won them all.
I am currently playing in a gaming league at the local GW store. There are 3 teams and it goes 2pts for a win 1 each for a draw and -2 for a loss.

The people i am trying to play against are in the other 2 teams but i am faced with a wall of 'no I'm not gonna play your list' every time i ask people for a game when they obviously want to play just not against me.

Now it seems that word has gotten around and now everyone has decided not to play me (even if they never have before ) because they fear losing points and going down in rankings ( i am an Eldar newbie as well )

 The majority of people who do not wish to play me seem to be marine players. 2 in particular never change their list and roll with the Shrike + infiltrating fleeting assault termies ( some people may deem this nasty on its own ) and who also gives fleet to the rest of the army. They have never played against me and one actually commented and i quote:

" Eldar taking 3 Heavy Support choices just gets old. I don't want to play you "

Mind you ~ that was without prior knowledge of my lists of what i run or what i would even field. For god sakes he plays Marines.. why should i have to tailor my list to suit him so I'm what? Easier to take down?

I really am stuck as i don't have an 'OP list' as i have never used the same lineup twice. I suppose its just the ways the other games went that has seemingly made this clique refuse me games.


The issue i am now facing that that our team can't advance ( only in 2nd place ) because people are not willing to battle our top 3 players ( we only have 5 in our team) and are content on playing people they know they can beat over and over and over while massing points. The rest of the teams have about 12 players each but our team has a 87% win ratio while the first place team has only 62%.


here is a rundown of the different lists i used in the first 3 games:


1st game vs marines ( first game ever with Eldar and first game in 6 years )

mission objective - 4 objectives, pitched battle.
result - win ( very close battle army included mass Lascannon, Plasmacannon, Missile Launchers, and infantry)

list:

HQ: Yriel
HQ: Farseer

E: 10 harlies kisses

T: 10 WG conceal
T: 10 Stormies - 2x flamers Warlock with destructor in Serpent

HS: WL x2 with BL EML 2x flamers
HS: WL with wraithsword


2nd game vs CSM

mission objective - annihilate, spearhead.

result - win ( annihilated his army in 4 turns and lost only 3 wraithguard - he fielded 20 plague marines, Kharn and 10 zerkers, Khorne lord with daemon axe and wings among other things  )

HQ: Avatar
HQ: Eldrad

E: 10 Harlies w/ kisses

T: 10 WG conceal
T: 10 Stormies - 2x flamers Warlock with destructor in Serpent

HS: WL x2 with BL EML 2x flamers


3rd game vs orks

missions objective - seize ground, spearhead.

result - win ( lost 1 unit of storm guardians, wiped out army that included Ghazghkull, painboy and 15 nobs or something like that ( counted as troops choice, ard'boys and tides of orks )


HQ: Farseer
 - 8x warlocks - enhance, embolden 6x destructor in a waveserpent with farseer

E: Scorpions x10 exarch with claw infiltrate and move through cover

T: 10 Da's - exarch w/ dual cata and bladestorm
T: 10 Da's - exarch w/ dual cata and bladestorm
T: 10 Da's - exarch w/ dual cata and bladestorm
T: 10 Stormies - 2x flamers Warlock with destructor in Serpent

HS: Fire Prism
HS: Fire Prism
HS: WL with BL EML 2x flamers

and thats where the problem has started. I can't seem to get anymore games they assume i roll with 3 wraithlords + 10 wraithguard & Eldrad combo and the Avatar. But that was only on my second game ever.

What i have been doing so far is trying out all the troops i have in my collection to see which ones perform better than others.

I HAVE the forgeworld Avatar so i like to use him.
I HAVE 10 Wraithguard i bought so i like to use them.

I don't honestly think my lists are overpowered. Both parties know who they will fight prior to the match ( you just show up and write an army list  then play ).

The way it's going at the moment i may run out of opponents before i even get 10 games in !

I have offered not to use WG, Avvy or Wraithlords and people still decline.


Thoughts, comments, suggestions and help is wanted !!!


Thanks in advance,

-Ulfhedinn-

[f.desrochers]

As it looks, you haven't played a game with the same list twice, which raises the thoughts that perchance you are tweaking to your opponents; if this is permissive to your league, then have at 'er.  The problem with many leagues is that there aren't enough rules to restrict some of the behaviour you are talking about (players only wishing to play against lower-ranked players).  One simple addition is to put a restriction that each round/week/whatever you can only play another player once or twice, forcing them to look to other opponents for games.

;francois

[Illusionist]

A marine player crying cheese is only one thing - a big bad hypocrite. And likely not a very good player either. Their list is the strongest and most flexible list up to date, and they can literally take care of anything. Vanguard veterans come to mind. They can be tailored to take care of anything due to their options for equipment (AFAIK the whole squad can take plasma pistols and powerfists or something). You indeed have used some strong lists against your opponents, but I wouldn't call your lists cheesy. Especially the comment about taking three heavy support choices would have annoyed me if said into my face, and as you described the situation, I think you should probably be glad you don't have to play against them (calling someone cheesy with the infiltrating termie-units and shrike... hah. A nice joke that is). Sounds like they have the maturity and tactical capability of many 13year olds (no offense to 13-year olds, I know some mature ones, but I also know the attitude of many that are different).

I guess there is no reasoning with these players, considering how cheap their attempts are at avoiding being beaten by you. One solution was mentioned by f.desrochers, but I would consider not playing with those people any more as it seems they aren't worth playing against. I have some great friends that are after more than just winning a game and it is heaps of fun to play against them as they don't mind losing, and I don't either. The cheesier the list, the better. Means winning is more challenging. The people in your league seem to be hell-bent on beating the shiz out of easy opponents, and then they complain when someone does the same to them. I can't see how they can possess a lot of maturity (and that is the one thing you need to play these games. That and a good sense of humour).

[Dunedain]

Aye. Its supposed to be a fun and mind sharpening game. Not a "No, i won't play against you for fear i'll lose" game.

[Hammer of Vaul]

Sounds like you have a store full of chickens, its bad form to refuse to play someone just because your scared youll loose. Ive played against very experienced gamers and received the beating i was sure to get. I have to say though they were the most informative games i have played. I would  look at changing the competition rules with regard to choosing opponents or look for a better class of player ulf, as posted earlier in this thread, its a poor day when a marine player cries cheese.

[haunt]

I find that people are picky and choosy about who and what they are going up against. I believe you, that people don't want to fight Eldar. People tend to get frustrated against the WG unit especially Fortuned, for some odd reason I bet your opponents go for broke to try and kill that unit too. Wait till you have more WG in the future, you'll know no one want to take you on then. 

[Zeller]

I see no circus. I see a solid list with tough units in an otherwise fragile species. They are pansys through and through.


Fleeting terminators...wtf is that anyway?

[Lazarus]

Many leagues have provisions for when players refuse to play you.....otherwise a group of people can do exactly what they are doing to your team. Prevent you from advancing by not playing you.

I've been in situation before where they didn't want to lose to me but at least one person that week had to either accept or refuse my challenge. If they refused it went down as a loss to them....if they accepted - they at least had a chance of winning....

Lazarus.

[Corax_rg]

I'd like to say the same sort of thing happens to me, but alas, I'm a diabolical eldar tactician and almost always get my ass handed to me.

I have seen people refuse to play others, but never in a tournament.

There is one chaos player that everyone dislikes. Two lash princes in EVERY GAME. In larger ones, I've seen him field two lash princes, 9 obliterators and 4 plague marine squads. While this is perfectly legal, its so tough, many people don't go near him.

I played him once and it was terrible. He didn't boast or act like a moron, he is just amazing at using that list. I was wiped out very fast, and while my ap3 bolters bypassed his save on many things, his FnP saved him quite a lot. And in combat, the high initiative demon princes destroyed most things simultaneously. He even manages to whoop hoards with it.

Any tournament that is held around here picks players from teams randomly at the beginning of each week and pair them up. If they don't play, they lose one for their team automatically.

[Sanctjud]

A note, AP3 bypasses armor, but he not only has FNP, but cover saves should he have it and T5 goes to neuter the effectiveness as well.
______________

Well, I don't do double lash or 9 oblits.

I do 2 DP's w/ just wings and 6 oblits, and 3 squads of plague marines.... and even then ppl don't like playing against it in my gaming group.

I remember one comment:

"I shouldn't have come here to play you, I could have better used my time staying at home, taking screwdriver to gouge out my eyes"

Again, this was 3 oblits and 2 lashes short of the 'uber' list.

So recently I've stopped going to the LGS, I'm on "Vaseline" in which I can try new lists.

What I've done recently is to test my mettle and try out 'Crap' lists...making lists that in your own opinion are just crappy lists not focused on efficiency and winning...and having more fun than ever.

My 7 Cents.

[stezerok]

This kind of crap irritates me to no end. Personally I would say screw that gaming group, they're a group of whiners who are giving a fellow gamer trouble just because he plays an army (haven't even looked at his list for gods sake)! Also you definitely should talk to whoever organizes those events, because it definitely needs a rule to make any refusals count as forfeits. It's only logical, and it would make those sore losers think about the odds before deciding to blanket deny you.

Good Hunting,
-Stezerok

[Bonham63]

Looking at the Eldar codex, it may be that they are thinking your WG are elite and you use them as troops. Sure the codex says, if you have a warlock, you can use them as troops, but all to often, people don't read that far into the text. I play an Eldar player a couple of times of month, but then it's a challenge for my CSM. Draws are usually the results, but we have fun and exciting games, where it is usually decided on the last turn. A round robin with team brackets and penalties for not having a team member player would have helped resolve some things, but other problems would still exist. Hope it works out.

[ManiacMatt]

See in the league I'm in, you're forced to challenge the person above you to move up the ladder.  As well there are guys in the league would love to take on tough lists.  Everyone pretty much likes a challenge there, I faced an all thousand sons list, was a tough battle, which I really should have won, but miss played a turn.  Everyone pretty much likes a challenge, and people who can't take losing usually dissappear rather quickly from our group.

[Lord Alliben]

Wow dude, that sucks. Maybe they just don't like playing against you. Do you make fun of them for using marines and losing? Because I would.

I wish I lived there. I would totally play against you. I started out playing by losing every game. I was repeatedly slaughtered. I started with Eldar (my friend's army) and Chaos (mine) back in 3rd ed and regularly played an armored company. The player had been in the game forever! I still remember the day that my regular list beat him fair and square. Yes I used Eldar. And I learned to use what I had. I didn't have to build a list to counter his. It was balanced. I've been mostly undefeated since then and I welcome a tough game.

Sounds like the guys you're playing against need to learn to actually play the game instead of simply learning to spam what they know and fear what they don't.

Come to my gaming group, bro. We need Eldar players. Haha. I don't see anything wrong with your lists. Tell them when they're done crying a river that they should just build a bridge and get on over it. I hate it when ppl refuse to play because they know they'll lose. So weak.

[Kadaeux]

My solution to your problem.

Talk to the organiser/s and suggest a new rule.

Any player to refuse a challenge to a Battle considers having forfeited and loses one point.

[-Φ Ulfhedinn Φ- Servant of the Lord of Dark Delights]

WoW ! Thanks for the replies everyone 

Indeed i just spoke to the manager who is organising and he pretty much said that everyday one of them declines a game he will implement a new rule for a loss at -1 points.

The idea after all is to play games not mess around and have fun in the community. Why can't people broaden their gaming experience?

I understand if people don't have time and or will be vsing another player shortly. But just hanging around the store, complaining there is no one to play while flatly rejecting my team mates is really poor competition.

It has come down to our team mates vsing each other just to get games... it's fun sure.. but there is no scoring or that edge of playing for points 

I want to get better and i know the only way to do that is by playing more difficult opponents.

As for tweaking to my opponents that is not a problem. You know you are going to play marines so you make a list accordingly you however don't know what they will field  and you certinally don't take a look at already made lists ( and for the most part i don't know what people use as i have only played people once )

I specifically brought my 3rd list last night i mentioned up there for something different to play after being rejected games during the previous week due to Wraithguard fear. Otherwise i simply wouldn't have been able to have them there.

I just happened to get an ork guy who was the only one who wanted to give it a go for fun 

I had no knowledge of what he had in his units/trukks and didn't really bother to ask. My guys just seemed to be in the right place at the right time and not zerging up the field like marine players do. So it was a surprise when i pop his vehicles to see what comes out.

I suppose it really got other people watching the game when i lured him close to 3 units of da's with bladestorm up and a seer council with the 6 destructor's taking down that Ghazghkull, painboy and 15 nob unit in 1 turn of shooting.

But that comes down to tactics and positioning not tweaked army lists.

As you can see for that list i pretty much left everything i usually use at home just for the chance of getting one game vs whomever.

The marine players walked in on the last part of that game and saw that Ghazghkull shooting phase and decided not to play me even when i said i had no Wraithguard with me ( which they constantly moan about ). Then the 3 heavy support choice comment surfaced...

Siiigh...

Now i really want to grind them into the dust.

Filthy Mon-Kiegh 

-Ulfhedinn-

[Adrastos]

A note, AP3 bypasses armor, but he not only has FNP, but cover saves should he have it and T5 goes to neuter the effectiveness as well.
______________

Well, I don't do double lash or 9 oblits.

I do 2 DP's w/ just wings and 6 oblits, and 3 squads of plague marines.... and even then ppl don't like playing against it in my gaming group.

I remember one comment:

"I shouldn't have come here to play you, I could have better used my time staying at home, taking screwdriver to gouge out my eyes"

Again, this was 3 oblits and 2 lashes short of the 'uber' list.

So recently I've stopped going to the LGS, I'm on "Vaseline" in which I can try new lists.

What I've done recently is to test my mettle and try out 'Crap' lists...making lists that in your own opinion are just crappy lists not focused on efficiency and winning...and having more fun than ever.

My 7 Cents.

I love crap lists too. I tend to play them frequently, just to try out new concepts, or unusual unit combination. You never know what kind of crazy idea you might run into just by trying something unusual.

I must say, I do not believe in 'cheese' nor would I refuse to play some one because of it. If its legal, I'll play against it. Some things are legitimately 'cheesy' or 'broken', I'll admit that, but I still refuse to whine about something if its legal. If I loose, its because I wasn't smart enough to figuer out how to win. Every list has a weakness, find the weakness, beat it, win. If some one walked on the table with 30 wraith guard I'd go "holy hell, what do I do?" then play 'im. Getting stomped is part of playing and learning to be better. Though, it still sucks getting trounced

I feel sorry for you and for ulfhedinn. I wish you both luck with your whiny compatriots. 

[Lord Alliben]

Honestly that third list of yours was the best suited to take on orks. And that was an ugly shooting phase. I'm glad an ork player was willing to play you though. Too bad those whiny little kids came in and got annoying. Man I wish I lived where you do. I'd play you anytime and I'd definitely be making fun of those other guys who won't.

PS I'd love to play against that list of yours with all the DA's. Those guys would destroy my gaunts like nobody's business. That would be so interesting. And shimmershields would be a pain when facing my MC's. It would be a terrific game.

[pacoquerak]

I do agree that these people are acting like children however, I think a good solution would to be to remove the point system and make your league a ladder of challenges. The way it works is everyones name is on a board in order from 1-whatever and the way you go up is by challenging someone above you. If you win you move up on the list and they move down. The ability to rapidly take it to the top is much more fun than having one player with tons of points and another with negative points!

[ADon]

Id love to verse a hoard army with 3 units of dire avengers. you got of 96 shots? Too bad you cant get many games. I hope you get better luck and find some real opponents. you could always quote the "and they shall know no fear" I laugh at cowardly space marine players bwahahahahaha