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Author Topic: Help me update my list for 9th (2000 points all gods)  (Read 377 times)

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Offline Sumshine

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Help me update my list for 9th (2000 points all gods)
« on: February 2, 2021, 03:42:34 PM »
Is there any way to get a competitive 1500 point list out of this stuff?  I'm willing to buy up to 2 more units as long as one of them can be painted in Sons of Vengeance (Slaanesh) colors and the other Brotherhood of Darkness.  I'm painting each unit in different warband colors and I'm calling it a 13th crusade army.  I've actually got around 45 cultists and a squad of bloodletters.  I haven't 100% decided if I will actually be giving the units the special icons or not.  I do have the Psychic Awakening War of the Spider book.  I'm honestly not sure that formation is better than using Fabius Bile without it though.  One of the havoc squads can be heavy bolters instead; I did a magnet conversion so I can switch back and forth with that squad.  Autocannon has historically been my favorite gun, which is why it's everywhere I could fit it.

The last game I played I used the Skyshield Landing pad to give my havocs an invulnerability save, which worked pretty well.  Other than that I got torn apart, because I didn't know what my opponents things could do.  I recently watched a twitch streamer play a game and they spent at least 30 minutes explaining the abilities of each unit, "so that there weren't any 'gotcha' moments".  I feel like doing something that would greatly increase my enjoyment of the game, so I'm going to give it another shot.

I haven't ever played in a tournament before and I'd kinda like to go to one once the plague has ended.  I was extended an invitation from my local hobby shop.  I have no idea what the locals use there, so it'd be best if my army was for all comers.

The Warlord doesn't necessarily have to be Fabius Bile.

++ Unbound Army (Faction) (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) [210 PL, 4,061pts] ++
+ Configuration +
 Detachment CP
Legion: Renegade Chapters



HQ
Chaos Lord 115pts
Jump pack, 2x Lightning Claw, Mark of Khorne

Daemon Prince with Wings 195pts
Hellforged sword, Miasma of Pestilence, Wings . Mark of Nurgle

Dark Apostle 80pts
Illusory Supplication, Mark of Tzeentch, Mutating Invocation

Fabius Bile 95pts
Surgeon Acolyte, Warlord

Sorcerer 90pts
Bolt pistol, Delightful Agonies, Force stave, Intoxicating Elixir, Mark of Slaanesh, Prescience

Warpsmith 70pts
Bolt pistol, Flamer, Meltagun, No Chaos Mark, Power axe

Troops
Chaos Cultists 195pts
Mark of Tzeentch . 26x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun: 26x Autogun . 3x Heavy stubber . Cultist Champion: Shotgun

Chaos Space Marines 10 marines with bolter 180pts
Icon of Despair, Mark of Nurgle . Aspiring Champion: Combi-plasma . 2x Plasma gun
(would be in dedicated rhino)
 
Chaos Space Marines 10 marines with bolter 180pts
Icon of Despair, Mark of Nurgle . Aspiring Champion: Combi-plasma . 2x Plasma gun
(would be in dedicated rhino)

Chaos Space Marines 10 marines w/chainsword+bp 160pts
Icon of Flame, Mark of Tzeentch. Flamer, Plasma pistol
Aspiring Champion: Bolt pistol, Power sword. 
(would be in land raider potentially with the Dark Apostle instead of one of the special weapon marines)

Chaos Space Marines 10 marines w/chainsword+bp 160pts
Icon of Flame, Mark of Tzeentch. Flamer, Plasma pistol
Aspiring Champion: Bolt pistol, Power sword. 
(would be in dedicated rhino)

Chaos Space Marines 10 marines w/chainsword+bp 155pts Icon of Vengeance, No Chaos Mark.
2x plasma pistol.
Aspiring Champion: Bolt pistol, Power sword .
(has a dedicated rhino)

Elites
Chosen 206pts
Icon of Vengeance, No Chaos Mark .
Chosen: Power axe .
Chosen: Power maul .
Chosen: Chainaxe .
Chosen: Power sword .
Chosen Champion: Combi-melta .
2x Chosen w/Combi-melta .
2x Chosen w/Meltagun .
(this group would be paired with the warpsmith or Fabius Bile in the undivided land raider)


Helbrute 100pts
Reaper autocannon
 
Helbrute 100pts
Reaper autocannon
 
Fast Attack
5 Raptors w/chainsword+bp 123pts
Mark of Khorne. Flamer
Raptor Champion: 2x Lightning Claw
(This group could have the chaos lord attached and potentially summon bloodletters)
 
Heavy Support
Chaos Land Raider 285pts Mark of Tzeentch
Chaos Land Raider 285pts No Chaos Mark

Havocs 135pts
Mark of Slaanesh.
4x Autocannon
Aspiring Champion: Bolt pistol, Power fist
 
Havocs 135pts
Mark of Slaanesh.
4x Autocannon (or heavy bolter)
Aspiring Champion: Bolt pistol, Power fist.
 
Havocs 155pts
Mark of Slaanesh
4x Missile launcher
Aspiring Champion: Bolt pistol, Power fist

Havocs 155pts
Mark of Slaanesh
4x Lascannon
Aspiring Champion: Bolt pistol, Power fist

Obliterator105pts

Flyer
Heldrake 155pts
Hades Autocannon, No Chaos Mark

Dedicated Transport
Chaos Rhino 83pts Combi-bolter, Havoc launcher, Mark of Tzeentch
Chaos Rhino 83pts Combi-bolter, Havoc launcher, Mark of Nurgle
Chaos Rhino 83pts Combi-bolter, Havoc launcher, Mark of Nurgle
Chaos Rhino 78pts Combi-bolter, No Chaos Mark

Fortification
Skyshield Landing Pad 120pts

Total not counting extra cultists or bloodletters 4,061pts]



« Last Edit: February 7, 2021, 03:49:02 PM by Sumshine »
"Destroying you is my anti-drug." Zeke, the robot from Ctrl+Alt+Del

Offline Lord of Winter and War

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Re: Help me update my list for 9th (1500 points all gods)
« Reply #1 on: February 2, 2021, 04:01:26 PM »
Could you summarize what you have? I find this formating you've used to be very hard to read to figure out what you have.
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Offline Sumshine

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Re: Help me update my list for 9th (1500 points all gods)
« Reply #2 on: February 2, 2021, 08:45:46 PM »
I updated the OP, but let me know if the format still needs to be improved.
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Offline Lord of Winter and War

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Re: Help me update my list for 9th (1500 points all gods)
« Reply #3 on: February 3, 2021, 09:05:50 AM »
Alright, so I'm someone who (before the great plague) frequently attended 40k tournaments, and play regularly with a competitive focused club.

First things first, Always go over your opponent army before the game, and always ask questions of units you are not sure of. I always make to sure to ask questions like "Is there any way X unit can run and charge", or ask what auras they have' what they do, how they can get re-rolls or modifiers etc. Gotcha moments shouldn't happen in tournaments. I normally play harlequins, so I make sure to ask my opponent if they are familiar with the army, and go over some of the main themes of the army, and what my main weapons do.

Main things to keep in mind to be aware of, is how fast a unit can move + charge, and how far weapons can shoot.

The best thing you can do is get in practice. If you can't get in practice games before an event, expect to loose games, but make notes of what didn't/didn't work, and then improve for the next time. Practice the missions, playing to the missions, and playing on a clock. Touriment games are often clocked at around 2.5 hours, so you need to practice playing fast. I recommend downloading a chess clock app, and practicing on a timer like that.

In 9th edition, events will be playing the Games Workshop Tournament pack. I'd recommend reading the missions, and the secondary missions. Some of the primary missions had additional special rules, which you don't want to be thrown off by, and each has a unique secondary.

Typically, your game plan should be to make sure you make 10vp every turn (at least) on primary, prevent your opponent from getting primary points and max secondary's. Being able to claim, and hold objectives is literally the most important thing in the game. I'd try and hold the min. number of objectives needed to get 10vp (2 or three objectives, depending on the mission), and focus on that. You don't want to spread yourself too thin. But, it depends on who/ what your playing. If you can easily get more objectives, then do so.

For secondary's, you typically want to try and go for ones you can do regardless of what your opponent is doing. Secondary's based around killing units is often a trap, as it forces your hand, and if your opponent places unit in reserves, or hides units, you will loose points. The only time I would take 'kill' secondary's is Abhor the Witch vs Grey Knights or Thousand Sons/Tzeentch, or Titan Hunter against a knights army.

I always go for Engage on all Fronts, or Line Breaker and Deploy Scramblers as my two first objectives. Scamblers your opponent cannot do anything to stop, and is an easy 10pts. Line Breaker/Engage is also very easy to score at the end of your turn.

The last objective will depend on your opponent and table. Practice makes perfect in finding out which will be easy to get for you for each game.

For a list.

You'll probably want to alter your list depending on playstyle, and how practice games go.

Troops in Rhinos will be one of the most important things you can take. Get units on objectives, and then hold them quickly. Rhinos can then protect their occupants for a shooting phase, and if they somehow survive later into the game, you can use them to charge enemy units to hold them up/deny overwatch.

I would also get two naked 5 man chaos space marine squads to just stick in strategic reserves. They'll have a small footprint, so are great for a cheeky linebreaker/engage on all fronts or to get you some of your scrambler actions done.

I'd not take any landraiders, as with all the Space Marines and Harlequins out there, a landradier will not survive more than a turn or two if you're lucky, it's too expensive and dies too fast.

I wouldn't take the skyshield, as it's massive and since you cannot deploy fortifications within 3" of any terrain on the table, you'll be hard set to actually be able to deploy it where you want to (or at all).

Hellbrutes are great and cheap, and the havocs are great (especially the autocannons and missile launchers).

Demon Princes are great too.

For Legion. I think the Creations of bile has a lot going for it. The character upgrades are really nice, and +1 move and Strength on everything is fantastic. The strats are all specialized, but are a great toolbox. Bile is pretty meh on his own, so he'll be a bit of a tax for the army.

Otherwise, Running the army as Alpha Legion is always a good bet, as -1 to be hit beyond 12" is a great tool to survive the first couple of turns.

For a basic idea of what I would run from what you have would be the following

Battalion

Demon Prince
Another character (doesn't matter)

x4 10 man CSM squads in rhinos (maybe 8 or 9 man to save points)
x2 5 man naked CSM squads

x4 rhinos

x2 helbrutes

x2 havocs with autocannons

heldrake or raptors


I'd try that, and then switch things around as needed/ from what you experience while playing.

I'd run the Rhinos naked without the extra guns, as they are not there to shoot, and that'd save points.
« Last Edit: February 3, 2021, 09:09:43 AM by Lord of Winter and War »
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Offline Sumshine

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Re: Help me update my list for 9th (1500 points all gods)
« Reply #4 on: February 6, 2021, 12:23:08 PM »
Looks like your suggestion would work for a 2000 point list and I can try to scale down for a 1500 point version.  I reread the Creations of Bile stuff and I like that a lot, so I'm going with Fabius + DP.

The game has changed a lot more than I expected since I played last.  Even the weapon profiles are different.  I'm not used to Space Marines having an easy way to blow up land raiders.  What are they taking that does that now?  I've never played against harlequins so I have no idea how they work.

I'm also not used to choosing stratagems.  Do I need to pick them all before the battle or are they just readily available if I have relevant units?  I am thinking of taking 1 gift of chaos and taking the helm of all seeing or whatever it's called to maybe get back some stratagem points.  It seems like it will at least make up its points most of them time.  The others that I like the sound of in order are 1) Endless Cacophony for more autocannon shots, 2) all the Creations of Bile things, and 3) the one that fully heals and teleports a single unit of cultists.  It seems like that would be great for contesting objectives and getting it to wherever would be most annoying.

What is the consensus on the reaper chaincannon? I am going to have exactly 1 and I'm not sure what paint scheme to use on it, since each squad is unique.  I was leaning towards the heavy bolter/autocannon squad for when it goes with HB.  An extra 5 shots at closer range might deter something from going that way.  Or is it only useful when the whole squad has them?

I appreciate your advice.
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Offline Lord of Winter and War

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Re: Help me update my list for 9th (1500 points all gods)
« Reply #5 on: February 6, 2021, 03:23:44 PM »
Yeah, I think Creations of Bile is pretty good, and that's what I'd do if I play Chaos Space Marines right now. I think the strats and army bonus to be really nice, and plays well in the game.

For strategems, as long as you have a pure Chaos Space Marine detachment, you have all the chaos space marine (and if playing Bile) strats avalible. You start the game with a certain amount of Command Points, and then use up that resource paying for strats throughout the game. Only stipulation, is you can't use the same strat more than once in a phase. The strats you like are all really good ones for sure.

I think reaper chaincannons are great, one wont make as much of a difference, but a havocs squad full of them is really nice.

Eradicators are a new Primaris Space Marine unit, and they are extremely deadly against vehicles. Harlequins have haywire, which just does mortal wounds to vehicles, and have a heap of melta pistols.

Best thing to do, is just get games in once you can. The game has changed a lot, and getting in practice games is the best way to learn how the games and missions work.

I will say, that 1500pts is an odd size, and the standard games sizes you'll find is 1000pt, and 2000pts. Getting in some 1000pts games will be a great way to get in more games quickly, and get the hang of the mechanics.

Chaos Space Marines are also due for a new codex sometime 'soon' maybe in the next year.
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