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Offline Wyddr

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Giant Rules FAQ coming!
« on: May 5, 2016, 09:37:24 AM »
Check this out.

Giant pile of new FAQs, based off fan questions, is circulating in draft form about the interwebs. I'm still combing through it, but some nuggets:

1) Preferred Enemy explicitly does not apply to Gets Hot rolls for Blast weapons because, and I quote, "such rolls are not a to-hit roll." (VINDICATION!)

2) A unit with a bunch of psychic ICs can only manifest one psychic power once. This kinda sucks for Horrors and their Heralds, but ought to tamp down on the Uber Units wandering about.

3) Battle Brothers may not ride in each others' transports (during deployment). No more guardsmen out of drop pods.

4) Only one grenade may be used by a unit in assault. (And Swooping Hawks and Fire Dragons everywhere cried out in misery)

5) Bombers can drop bombs on units locked in combat (!)

6) Blast weapons now explicitly hit things on all levels of a ruin.

Crap ton of other stuff, too. Will report on other interesting nuggets.
« Last Edit: May 5, 2016, 09:52:56 AM by Wyddr »

Offline Ambience 327

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Re: Giant Rules FAQ coming!
« Reply #1 on: May 5, 2016, 12:12:18 PM »
Keep in mind it is currently a "First Draft" and may change based on feedback.

My favorite clarification/errata is the note that Psychic Shriek definitely does not require a To Hit roll - meaning that the Genestealer Cult Patriarch can use his Primaris Power - and gets even more killy, taking further advantage of his close-up Infiltration.

Offline Aurics Pride

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Re: Giant Rules FAQ coming!
« Reply #2 on: May 5, 2016, 12:54:40 PM »
Some of the questions being asked are kinda ridiculous but there is some good stuff actually coming out
A couple of Local Dark Eldar players are getting pretty angry about Passengers in Jinking transports being forced to Snapshot as well, although this is how I've always played it.
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Offline Grand Master Lomandalis

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Re: Giant Rules FAQ coming!
« Reply #3 on: May 5, 2016, 01:06:06 PM »
Seeing as it is only their first draft, I am going to go through and point out parts that make no sense.  Best example is their ruling on re-rolls to hit not affecting blast gets hot.  They are flat out cutting the rule out of the book in the FAQ section, not the Errata?

There were some rulings that I had issue with, so here's hoping they are open to criticism.

Edit:

Actually, just went through all of he clarifications and there was much less wrong than I had originally thought once I looked up the rule.

1)  Blast and Gets Hot - All of my arguments from this thread still stand.

2)  Gets Hot and Re-rolls - quite the cop out on this one, but brings it back in line to how it has been for years.  I kind of liked it that you have to roll 1s twice to overheat.

3)  Hull mounted firing arc - 45 degree total arc is really beslubbering narrow.  And then to make it even more confusing, they state that vehicles have a vertical degree of arc at 45 degrees as well, but then go on to talk about how they can be swivelled up or down 45 degrees.

4)  Measuring to units in transports - It would be nice if they were just consistent with their ruling on this.  First you can measure from the hull for abilities, then you can't, then they FAQ it that you can, then they take that away.  The model isn't off the table, it's just inside a vehicle.  Let us use their beslubbering abilities.  No more sticking Belial in a Land Raider for Terminators to use his Teleport Homer.

5)  Can fortifications scout - Who the beslubber asks THAT question?!?

6)  Bikes can climb ruins - bwahahahahahahaha, oh you gotta be kidding me.

7)  Can't move through ruin walls - In direct contradiction to the rule for moving through terrain on page 21 where it says you can move through, up, or over any terrain unless it is noted as being impassable.

8)  Grenades can only be ever used by one model - They use the rules for shooting with grenades as their justification, which is flat out wrong.  But if they stick to this ruling, then that will be ridiculous.  Yay, I have Krak Grenades on all of my marines... but only one can slap it to a tank?

9)  Flyers forced to move over an enemy unit no longer crash - Despite the rules saying they will crash if they are forced to stop within 1" of an enemy.

10)  A single model can do a Disordered Charge and charge two units - No.  Just... just no.  First off, a straight line to the closest model in the primary unit is not going to allow you to touch another round base.  Second, the rule for multiple charges flat out says that you can't pull this amphetamine parrot.

So, not that many, but still enough to be an issue.  What bothers me is that many of these are flat out rule changes.  Almost as if the people who wrote this (presumably developers) never even looked at the rules to see if it was possible.
« Last Edit: May 5, 2016, 02:56:17 PM by Grand Master Lomandalis »
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Offline volatilegaz

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Re: Giant Rules FAQ coming!
« Reply #4 on: May 6, 2016, 07:34:24 AM »
My favourite is:

Q: “Challenges vs outside forces. When 2 units (of more than 1 model) fight, the rule is clear, however if one of the units is a single model (e.g. a character or monstrous creature), it isn’t.”
A: “Yes.”         


I get that i's a first draft, and it's nice of them to ask for community input, but really.

I'm particularly peeved about the grenades one, though.
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Offline Alienscar

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Re: Giant Rules FAQ coming!
« Reply #5 on: May 6, 2016, 08:05:46 AM »
There were some rulings that I had issue with, so here's hoping they are open to criticism.

Games Workshop has asked for criticism.

Quote from: Games Workshop
We got so many questions for this game, that we’re going to be asking for feedback on the answers one book at a time. We’re starting with the big one: the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook.
Do the answers all make sense? Are they clear?
(We’re looking for whether you understand them rather than if you like the answer.)
Here’s what you need to do
- Read through this draft FAQ
- If you think any answers need clarification, post up a comment on the relevant image
- Make sure your question is concisely written, and in plain English
We’ll leave these up for a week, then we’ll pass on your comments to the rules guys for the final FAQs.
We’ll be posting more FAQ drafts for feedback over the new few weeks for our Warhammer 40,000 Codex titles.
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Offline Wyddr

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Re: Giant Rules FAQ coming!
« Reply #6 on: May 6, 2016, 09:17:29 AM »
1)  Blast and Gets Hot - All of my arguments from this thread still stand.

Oh bosh they do. Arguing through obstinacy doesn't make you right.

And in this case, you are definitively wrong and for the reasons I pointed out that nobody wanted to hear.  :P

I do think the grenades in assault thing is nonsense. It reduces Krak grenades back to the useless days of 4th edition. And seriously, if I took Swooping Hawks, I'd be pissed right now.

Bikes riding up stairs or making Evel Knievel jumps is a bit silly, but I don't substantially object. I *am* glad that my Bloodthirster can eat guys hiding on the second story of a ruin, all King Kong style. 

Also: The entire Independent Character page is obviously misprinted or otherwise mis-edited, because none of those answers make any sense at all. They need to review and fix it.

Offline Cavalier

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Re: Giant Rules FAQ coming!
« Reply #7 on: May 6, 2016, 11:24:15 AM »
Even though it hurts my Eldar/DE alliance I'm pretty happy with the FAQ. I like how it relegates Drop Pods to Marine only armies, it breaks up some of the Imperial IC super combinations and its really helped flyers. Razorwings and Hemlocks being able to use their blast weapons against other aerial targets is awesome!

As for the changes to grenades I'm not really fussed. I use Swooping Hawks and Fire Dragons a lot and have almost never used their grenades. I've got so much anti-tank via my Hornets, Wraithknight, Warp Hunter etc. that I only used Hawks in their "intended" role as infantry murder-machines going after 4+ armor targets in cover. Also they still retain their full amount of grenade attacks against flyers which is really cool. Hawks are still phenomenal and aren't going anyway in their rotation through my army list cycles.

Overall I'm just happy for greater clarification, and some minor rules adjustments like 25% cover on GMC's etc. Looking forward to the final version for sure
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Offline Grand Master Lomandalis

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Re: Giant Rules FAQ coming!
« Reply #8 on: May 6, 2016, 12:11:01 PM »
1)  Blast and Gets Hot - All of my arguments from this thread still stand.

Oh bosh they do. Arguing through obstinacy doesn't make you right.

And in this case, you are definitively wrong and for the reasons I pointed out that nobody wanted to hear.  :P
Don't be hating because I was able to pull out page references and quotes to support my arguments and you were not able to ;)

If you can address how one rule that allows you to re-roll ones is allowed (BS6+) and another is not (Preferred Enemy), then I will admit I am wrong.  It's not obstinance when I am right.
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Offline Wyddr

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Re: Giant Rules FAQ coming!
« Reply #9 on: May 6, 2016, 12:54:02 PM »
If you can address how one rule that allows you to re-roll ones is allowed (BS6+) and another is not (Preferred Enemy), then I will admit I am wrong.  It's not obstinance when I am right.

When the die in question to be re-rolled IS NOT A TO HIT ROLL. That's literally it, and it is the exact same argument GW is using, and I said it in the other thread 3 times without anybody seeming to understand or effectively refute. And now I've said it again.

Jesus.  ::)

Offline Lord of Winter and War

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Re: Giant Rules FAQ coming!
« Reply #10 on: May 6, 2016, 01:38:53 PM »
I'm with GW and Wyddr. It's a separate test to see if you can use the shooting attack, like how you have to cast witchfires before you can shoot them.

The FAQ is great. I'm looking forward to the final draft, and the individual codex documents.
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Re: Giant Rules FAQ coming!
« Reply #11 on: May 6, 2016, 03:14:08 PM »
I do like how it stops Battle Brother transport shenanigans, and I guess the preferred enemy ruling will have to stand.  But the grenades thing has really bugged me.  :P

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Re: Giant Rules FAQ coming!
« Reply #12 on: May 6, 2016, 05:57:21 PM »
Hat tip to Alienscar for pointing-out that GW slyly put-up the first draft of their FAQ on their Facebook page rather than elsewhere:

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1610528622601104&id=1575682476085719

I would move it to General 40k but, since it's a draft, I'm content to leave it here.   :)
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Offline Grand Master Lomandalis

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Re: Giant Rules FAQ coming!
« Reply #13 on: May 6, 2016, 07:03:14 PM »
If you can address how one rule that allows you to re-roll ones is allowed (BS6+) and another is not (Preferred Enemy), then I will admit I am wrong.  It's not obstinance when I am right.

When the die in question to be re-rolled IS NOT A TO HIT ROLL. That's literally it, and it is the exact same argument GW is using, and I said it in the other thread 3 times without anybody seeming to understand or effectively refute. And now I've said it again.

Jesus.  ::)

Which is reconciled by the line for the gets hot and rerolls rule that says you can reroll the gets hot roll for weapons that do not roll to hit.

The point in the FAQ is that they are saying if you can reroll 1s then it won't work for blast weapons, but BS6+ is used as an example that can allow the reroll, which allows you to reroll ones.

If there is anything that recent politics has taught us, it is that quotes taken out of context can mean what ever you want them to.
Well I always liked the globals...
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Offline Wyddr

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Re: Giant Rules FAQ coming!
« Reply #14 on: May 6, 2016, 10:15:56 PM »
The way to adjudicate the "re-roll" clause was the part of the rule that was unclear, as your interpretation would lead to *all* blast weapons getting re-rolled on account of Preferred Enemy, since any re-roll under any circumstances would be eligible. That, of course, makes Blast weapons even *more* accurate than other weapons on account of preferred enemy, which doesn't make any damned sense. Now, granted, that doesn't mean it's wrong, but it also doesn't make it clearly right. 

Hence, a FAQ clarifying that restriction, overriding your silly argument, and (hopefully) ending this discussion forever. No re-rolls for preferred enemy if you roll a 1 on the Get's Hot die. Preferred Enemy has no effect on Blast Weapons (and, frankly, neither should BS6+ other than the increased scatter reduction, but whatever).

Offline The GrimSqueaker

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Re: Giant Rules FAQ coming!
« Reply #15 on: May 6, 2016, 11:37:51 PM »
I hate it when mum and dad fight. Wait till the FAQ is complete and published *then* resume the argumenting on that matter. Also throw your reasoning at the GW people in order to sway them to your side of the matter. Sway them, sway them good.
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Offline Lord of Winter and War

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Re: Giant Rules FAQ coming!
« Reply #16 on: May 7, 2016, 06:26:39 PM »
I'm glad that it's confirmed that models which have melee weapons which grant effects of the model is 'equipped' with the weapons get the benefits, even if using a different weapon. Solitare does get it's kiss attack along with the caress, like I thought. Still not sure how master crafted and shread will effect that though. I am assuming it doesn't.

So, if a solitare has Ceogorachs Rose (gives master crafted and shread to his kiss), he wont get those benefits if he chooses to attack with the Caress, even if he still gets his kiss of death attack. That's my understanding.
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Offline Dangerousdave0042

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Re: Giant Rules FAQ coming!
« Reply #17 on: May 7, 2016, 09:14:10 PM »
It is quite clear that preferred enemy did allow the reroll on gets hot blast. Its Also quite clear that they've done a u turn. I don't like the contents of that message, but at least the message is clear.

Overall they've done a good job of clarifying, but some like the grenades is just plain bizarre. I would say a b+ for gw. They've done the right thing, but it's not quite there yet.
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Offline Grand Master Lomandalis

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Re: Giant Rules FAQ coming!
« Reply #18 on: May 7, 2016, 09:16:16 PM »
It is quite clear that preferred enemy did allow the reroll on gets hot blast. Its Also quite clear that they've done a u turn. I don't like the contents of that message, but at least the message is clear.

Overall they've done a good job of clarifying, but some like the grenades is just plain bizarre. I would say a b+ for gw. They've done the right thing, but it's not quite there yet.
As Rummy said, let's not go back down that road.  We know we're right, Wyddr will just have to deal with it lol. 

The important thing is that they are taking feedback on these answers before they make it official, so hopefully they will see the arguments being put forth and will give it some serious consideration before they move forward.
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Offline Alienscar

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Re: Giant Rules FAQ coming!
« Reply #19 on: May 8, 2016, 05:01:30 AM »
The important thing is that they are taking feedback on these answers before they make it official

It is good that GW is asking for feedback on the FAQ before they release them but it is really annoying that they have only allowed one week.

Their promise of a release in two weeks turned into four so you would think they should realise that one week isn't long enough for their customers.
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