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Author Topic: Joining the Army [updated 4th August]  (Read 11769 times)

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Offline Ensis Ferrae

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Re: Joining the Army
« Reply #20 on: July 8, 2008, 08:20:01 AM »
yes, we both are in the US army. and in Australia's defense of the US "picking up the slack" i'd say that you have done more than an admirable job in a war that you didnt start, and im sure isnt all that popular in Australia. i would also say the same for any country that has done the same, no matter how small a force they sent (i believe it was lithuania that has sent a whopping 4 soldiers to iraq to support us, but hey, thats 4 more than the french!)

Offline pimpag

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Re: Joining the Army
« Reply #21 on: July 8, 2008, 11:17:27 AM »
I have a cousin in the army, it completely changed him, he grew up so quick it was unreal. Good luck to you though and take it seriously.

Offline Vespasian Swiper

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Re: Joining the Army
« Reply #22 on: July 8, 2008, 06:55:09 PM »
After musing over it more mate - does Austrailia have a Territorial Army/National Guard equivilent (I think it does...) if so sign up for that and see how it goes. I'm increasingly planning on doing that - most likely logistics or possibly mech infantry.

Regardless, I've ended up accidentally surrounding myself with friends in the forces/industry/Circuit and my course/life/routine are pointing me towards a military career - its better to see you can hack it in say a Second Line position which is more 'gentle' than fornt line and offers you more support in getting fit etc than standard combat roles.

Just will have to fight for my Commission (due to learning difficulties etc) but hell I hope it'll be worth it...

I've seen what happens to men who return and join for the wrong reasons - at the end of it you need to make a choice, I've dilly dallied for 2 years and finally had the 'big talk' with my mother about it... not too happy but still.

With two of my best friends looking to join the same unit/go on deployment together etc we're all pretty much in the same mindset about it, and this'll make it easier. Also had to have the talk with my pacifist girlfirend... who may well become fiancee about it all - which again wasnt easy but they both understand what could happen etc.

Just remember to keep a hedge fund(as I am) for buying any kit to improve the general amphetamine parrotty kit you are issued with etc... *cough dragonskin/custom assualtvest/pouches etc*.
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Offline Unscientific Postscript

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Re: Joining the Army
« Reply #23 on: July 9, 2008, 01:22:54 AM »
After musing over it more mate - does Austrailia have a Territorial Army/National Guard equivilent (I think it does...) if so sign up for that and see how it goes. I'm increasingly planning on doing that - most likely logistics or possibly mech infantry.

Regardless, I've ended up accidentally surrounding myself with friends in the forces/industry/Circuit and my course/life/routine are pointing me towards a military career - its better to see you can hack it in say a Second Line position which is more 'gentle' than fornt line and offers you more support in getting fit etc than standard combat roles.

Just will have to fight for my Commission (due to learning difficulties etc) but hell I hope it'll be worth it...

I've seen what happens to men who return and join for the wrong reasons - at the end of it you need to make a choice, I've dilly dallied for 2 years and finally had the 'big talk' with my mother about it... not too happy but still.

With two of my best friends looking to join the same unit/go on deployment together etc we're all pretty much in the same mindset about it, and this'll make it easier. Also had to have the talk with my pacifist girlfirend... who may well become fiancee about it all - which again wasnt easy but they both understand what could happen etc.

Just remember to keep a hedge fund(as I am) for buying any kit to improve the general amphetamine parrotty kit you are issued with etc... *cough dragonskin/custom assualtvest/pouches etc*.

Yes, I come from a strongly pacifist family; I wrote to them the other day to tell them my plans, and I was amazed that they are actually very proud of me: probably they wouldn't have been as proud if I'd wanted to be a trooper instead of a nurse.

Yes, we do have a Reserve here, and I was considering joining that in order to see how I go. The problem is if I did that, I wouldn't be doing anything to further my plan, and so it seems like a waste. This probably sounds silly, but being 25 (my birthday today), I feel like I don't have a moment to lose. Sometimes you just have to jump in the deep end and take a risk: something which I have always avoided up until now, to my cost. 

Ensis Ferrae: is the war popular anywhere? Our new government is pulling troops out of Iraq, as you must know - if only they were putting that same number into Afghanistan. There, at least, there is no moral ambiguity at all, and yet uni-types always talk about Afghanistan as though it were a move toward US empire-building. 
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Offline Vespasian Swiper

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Re: Joining the Army
« Reply #24 on: July 9, 2008, 03:20:58 AM »
*Shakes head* We're losing Afghan, no doubt about it really... we've pursued a flawed strategy thanks to too much NATO meddling, dont fully understand the enemy and through this make them more powerful and gain more local sympathy. Everyday it continues without definate resolution plays into the Taliban and 'Enemy Combatants' hand.

They are not Al Qaeda, as it does not exist.
They are not all Islamic fundamentalists.

And until we 'understand' this as a nation and as political entities then nothing will change, bodybags will come home and billions more will be spent upholding a flawed and decadent government...
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Offline Unscientific Postscript

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Re: Joining the Army
« Reply #25 on: July 9, 2008, 09:08:43 AM »
Oh, really.  :-[ I thought we were doing pretty well in Afghanistan. And surely Al Qaeda *are* there - what do you mean "it doesn't exist. Do you have a link?
Man: Er... excuse me?
FMG: Yes? I am a doctor, you know.
Man: I was just wondering...
FMG: Get on with it. I'm a Doctor. My time is precious.
Man: Well, it's just...
FMG: My god, man, do you even know what that word means? Let me spell it out: D O C T OR. 6 years of medical school. A PhD.
Man: Look I really...
FMG: I'm the person who makes this whole hospital work...
Man; Look mate, you're  going to have to give me 50p for that paper or get out.

Offline tryanotherone - smurfernating

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Re: Joining the Army
« Reply #26 on: July 9, 2008, 10:07:40 AM »
What he means is that Al-Kaida is not the same as it was 2001. Back then is was a group / organisation of like minded individuals. Now it is more like an international movement.
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Offline Vespasian Swiper

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Re: Joining the Army
« Reply #27 on: July 9, 2008, 05:31:17 PM »
Not really.

I worded that very carefully for a reason.
1. There is no spelling of Al Qaeda - as it does not translate into English well. Taking it relatively literally translates as 'The Base' - so during Soviet Afghan, you'd refer to your OP as Al Qaeda.
2. It was never a 'group' just like a bunch of mates who go for a drink in the pub adn play snooker arent a team, they are linked by the same beliefs/ideology but it was never really a proper group. When they ran training groups for the lovely IRA and other lovely chappies who went to Afghan to get a well rounded experience in firearms and explosives, then they were unified to a degree.
3. Al Qaeda is simply a philosophy of more radical wabbism (which in itself is very extreme), and the US spreads the term as a catch all phrase which infuriates insurgents as it does not recognise their aims (the Taliban are increasingly becoming a Nationalistic force).
4. Its not an international movement like Communism was, its like Anon - everyone is Anon and no one is. I can go and blow up a building tomorrow and say Al Qaeda did it - thats true I did it for them, but they were not aware of it. Consequently post Afghan invasion they are more dangerous, not less since anyone can be an agent if they just want to do it.

We are doing poorly in Afghan, so is the government, and the Pakistanis are dragging their feet - you cant really find many good cited links but... yeah from those of us studying it - we're in the styx.
Its an even stranger day when you have a fat Games Workshop-Fanboy Ninja declare to end you for something you did for April Fools on Teh Interwebz.

It's a strange day in the world where I find myself agreeing more often than not with Swiper.  :D


Offline The GrimSqueaker

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Re: Joining the Army
« Reply #28 on: July 9, 2008, 05:35:06 PM »
It's a strange day in the world where I find myself agreeing more often than not with Swiper.  :D

However, Afghanistan discussion can begin elsewhere if people wish but this thread has a different focus which we should return to.
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Offline Ensis Ferrae

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Re: Joining the Army
« Reply #29 on: July 9, 2008, 06:52:22 PM »
one other thing you might wish to consider, is rather than joining the Army (of any country, as im directing this to all on the board who read these, not just the OP), join your country's Air Force!

this is especially advice i would give to an american who was thinking about doing some time in the military, as our air force doesnt exactly rough it the way the army or the marines do.

Offline Vespasian Swiper

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Re: Joining the Army
« Reply #30 on: July 9, 2008, 07:12:48 PM »
Ah yes, the Navy and Airforce are totally different in terms of structure, requirement and ethos. I've eaten in RAF messes that look like they deserve to be in Vahalla compared to the Officers mess for army officers that in comparison reminds me something out of Soviet Russia.

Think of skills you want to pick up/learn - the airforce offers arguably the most opportunities regarding administration/noncombat roles.

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« Last Edit: July 9, 2008, 07:18:24 PM by Swiper »
Its an even stranger day when you have a fat Games Workshop-Fanboy Ninja declare to end you for something you did for April Fools on Teh Interwebz.

It's a strange day in the world where I find myself agreeing more often than not with Swiper.  :D


Offline Unscientific Postscript

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Re: Joining the Army
« Reply #31 on: July 10, 2008, 01:27:35 AM »
No, I'm certain I want to be nurse/nursing officer; you can be those in the RAAF as well, but they wouldn't be involved in relief/reconstruction work the way the army would.
Man: Er... excuse me?
FMG: Yes? I am a doctor, you know.
Man: I was just wondering...
FMG: Get on with it. I'm a Doctor. My time is precious.
Man: Well, it's just...
FMG: My god, man, do you even know what that word means? Let me spell it out: D O C T OR. 6 years of medical school. A PhD.
Man: Look I really...
FMG: I'm the person who makes this whole hospital work...
Man; Look mate, you're  going to have to give me 50p for that paper or get out.

Offline Ensis Ferrae

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Re: Joining the Army
« Reply #32 on: July 10, 2008, 06:52:01 AM »
that is very admirable. i know of plenty of people who went into the USAF, and USN because it keeps them out of the front. the few navy people i see/interact with are usually corpsmen, attached to the marine units (either that, or theyre in "intelligence")

but then again, if i wanted to be in the medical profession, i would put myself in a position to use those skills the most.

Offline Pvt. Dancer

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Re: Joining the Army
« Reply #33 on: July 10, 2008, 06:58:23 AM »
If I ever join the army I'm not planning on starting from the bottom and work my way up, no sir i'm doing officers training If I make that choice.

Offline Unscientific Postscript

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Re: Joining the Army
« Reply #34 on: July 10, 2008, 11:06:36 PM »
that is very admirable. i know of plenty of people who went into the USAF, and USN because it keeps them out of the front. the few navy people i see/interact with are usually corpsmen, attached to the marine units (either that, or theyre in "intelligence")

but then again, if i wanted to be in the medical profession, i would put myself in a position to use those skills the most.

Well, this is the Australian Army - not quite the same exposure to combat  ;). It also seems like the Army gets to go to more interesting places and do more interesting things - except for pilots, I guess.

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If I ever join the army I'm not planning on starting from the bottom and work my way up, no sir i'm doing officers training If I make that choice
This might seem romantic, but I think one should know what it is to be led before you try and be a leader. I can understand the motivation, but it seems wrong to assume that one will be the most disciplined/efficient/courageous soldier. 
Man: Er... excuse me?
FMG: Yes? I am a doctor, you know.
Man: I was just wondering...
FMG: Get on with it. I'm a Doctor. My time is precious.
Man: Well, it's just...
FMG: My god, man, do you even know what that word means? Let me spell it out: D O C T OR. 6 years of medical school. A PhD.
Man: Look I really...
FMG: I'm the person who makes this whole hospital work...
Man; Look mate, you're  going to have to give me 50p for that paper or get out.

Offline Cpt. Banjo

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Re: Joining the Army
« Reply #35 on: July 12, 2008, 09:05:04 AM »
You may have to go to Afghanistan, but it's a lot better deal than Iraq, IMO. 

Due to the location of the deployments, this is not for Australian service personnel. Leaving aside the injured, we've had six soldiers killed in combat in Afghanistan compared to the one (aircraft crash, IIRC).

To the OP,

Good for you if you're joining the services. Just remember that whilst you may be going in there for reasons of self-interest (life-long desire, paying-off university debts, career, etc) there quite possibly could come a time where you are then required to sacrifice. Understand this and be cool with it before you sign up.

Secondly, don't be fooled by the adds. They may show people rebuilding villages or giving vacinations to children but you need to remember that, at it's heart, the military is about violence. Consider this carefully and, as above, be cool with it before signing up.

Finally, make sure you know what you want to do before signing up for a lengthy return of service; if you're not so sure, you can't do worse than signing up as an enlisted man and picking up a trade (which, I believe, is what you want to do).

At any rate, whatever you do, good luck.
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Offline Two Blades as One, Samurai Ichirou

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Re: Joining the Army
« Reply #36 on: July 12, 2008, 11:17:37 AM »
Secondly, don't be fooled by the adds. They may show people rebuilding villages or giving vacinations to children but you need to remember that, at it's heart, the military is about violence. Consider this carefully and, as above, be cool with it before signing up.

Ya, that's the biggest thing that my dad hammers into my head about hte military. "Your job is to kill people!" Understand it and deal with it.

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Offline Ensis Ferrae

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Re: Joining the Army
« Reply #37 on: July 12, 2008, 01:50:11 PM »
Secondly, don't be fooled by the adds. They may show people rebuilding villages or giving vacinations to children but you need to remember that, at it's heart, the military is about violence. Consider this carefully and, as above, be cool with it before signing up.

Ya, that's the biggest thing that my dad hammers into my head about hte military. "Your job is to kill people!" Understand it and deal with it.

Anzuru yori umu ga yasushi

the only time where your job ISNT about killing people first, is in the medical field, which the OP has clearly stated in his postings. though, i will say that should anyone decide that the military medical field may be the place for them, prepare yourself to see some bad and nasty things. gun shot wounds, missing limbs and other combat related injuries that have to do with the big three (life, limb, and eyesight), while not a major everyday event, are rather commonplace in theater.

Offline Unscientific Postscript

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Re: Joining the Army
« Reply #38 on: July 13, 2008, 08:33:55 AM »
 
Quote
Due to the location of the deployments, this is not for Australian service personnel. Leaving aside the injured, we've had six soldiers killed in combat in Afghanistan compared to the one (aircraft crash, IIRC).

No, it was horseplay/suicide, remember - the Kovco case.

Quote
To the OP,

Good for you if you're joining the services. Just remember that whilst you may be going in there for reasons of self-interest (life-long desire, paying-off university debts, career, etc) there quite possibly could come a time where you are then required to sacrifice. Understand this and be cool with it before you sign up.

Secondly, don't be fooled by the adds. They may show people rebuilding villages or giving vacinations to children but you need to remember that, at it's heart, the military is about violence. Consider this carefully and, as above, be cool with it before signing up.

Finally, make sure you know what you want to do before signing up for a lengthy return of service; if you're not so sure, you can't do worse than signing up as an enlisted man and picking up a trade (which, I believe, is what you want to do).

At any rate, whatever you do, good luck.

As Ensis Ferrae points out, my job won't be to kill people, except in the most extreme situations. As to the advertising aspect - I haven't really seen any ads for the army, and certainly not ones about rebuilding villages etc. Most of my information on what the Australian Army actually does comes from SBS news and current affairs; obviously, this only covers actual operations, rather than the interminable training that (I imagine) is most soldier's actual life. And obviously, it is only selectively reporting events in recent operations. But it still seems to be a big part of the ADF's role in the region. Also, it may be possible to get posted in an Australian unit on peacekeeping duty with the UN.

Anyway, thanks. :)
« Last Edit: July 13, 2008, 08:35:32 AM by Unscientific Postscript »
Man: Er... excuse me?
FMG: Yes? I am a doctor, you know.
Man: I was just wondering...
FMG: Get on with it. I'm a Doctor. My time is precious.
Man: Well, it's just...
FMG: My god, man, do you even know what that word means? Let me spell it out: D O C T OR. 6 years of medical school. A PhD.
Man: Look I really...
FMG: I'm the person who makes this whole hospital work...
Man; Look mate, you're  going to have to give me 50p for that paper or get out.

Offline tryanotherone - smurfernating

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Re: Joining the Army
« Reply #39 on: July 13, 2008, 01:29:53 PM »
While a medical officer may not have to do any killing, he may get into a situation when he must do a triage which may be equally 'traumatic'.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2008, 05:57:40 PM by tryanotherone »
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