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Author Topic: would this 2000 pt empire list work?  (Read 2040 times)

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Offline nawari

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would this 2000 pt empire list work?
« on: November 16, 2012, 03:58:51 AM »
hello all its been a while since i have picked up a fantasy codex, new edition 40k has been more important lol.

anyway i never ended up getting that empire army i was thinking of getting using mostly 2 battleforces. but i made up a new list that i think i will find way more fun. all comments welcomed! :D

Lord
Grand master
-ogre blade
-talisman of peservation    (240)

Heros
Captain
-BSB
-barded warhorse
-full plate armour
-steel standard           (142)

warrior priest
-barded warhorse
-heavy armour
-dawn stone              (108)

Core
knights x 30
-FC
-inner circle
-strider banner          (830)

Special
Mortar  xxx

Mortar xxx

Cannon xxx

Cannon xxx

Rare
Hellblaster xxx

Hellblaster xxx

Now i know there is no wizards but i tend to shy away from majic in general. im hoping that my artillary can lay down the hurt on MC's and enemy spellcasters etc.. my plan is to wittle down the opponent untill he reaches charge range then mop up with a horde of knights with lances re-rolling to hit :p

would this list work?
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Offline Irisado

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Re: would this 2000 pt empire list work?
« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2012, 05:22:42 AM »
I can't see it working too well to be honest.

You're relying far too heavily on artillery, which is always a risk, and one unit of Knights to do all your close combat fighting is asking the impossible in my experience.

Eighth edition Fantasy is all about large infantry blocks with supporting units, so a massive unit of Knights being your only formation is likely to be thinned out heavily by shooting and magic before it gets to combat, and then unable to smash through enough infantry blocks when it gets there.  It also has absolutely no support, making it an easy choice in terms of target priority.

I think that you would be much better off reducing the size of the Knights to a more sensible one (half the size of the current unit seems reasonable to me), and then cutting back on the artillery, and opting for big infantry blocks of between thirty to forty models, which can either be used defensively, with the Knights in a counter assault role to support them, or offensively with the Knights on the flank as a flank charge unit.

This would also allow you to spread your characters around, and get rid of the all your eggs in one basket problem that your army list currently has.

Finally, I strongly recommend that you take a Wizard.  In my experience, Empire armies are very vulnerable to magic, so you need some defence if nothing else.

I hope that helps.
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Offline nawari

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Re: would this 2000 pt empire list work?
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2012, 04:15:54 AM »
yeh i thought it was going to be a flop! lol

thanks for the reply irisado, it has saved me even thinking about buying some new models. :)

although i still do have one question. would a horde of 30 knights work well anyway? say backed up by large infrantry blocks and wizards and what not?
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Offline Irisado

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Re: would this 2000 pt empire list work?
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2012, 07:04:13 AM »
although i still do have one question. would a horde of 30 knights work well anyway? say backed up by large infrantry blocks and wizards and what not?

No, because it's too many eggs in one basket.

I'm a huge fan of cavalry, but Empire Knights really suffer in eighth edition, because they just can't break through infantry formations on their own, and if you were to take thirty to try to do it, your rank bonus would still be insufficient, and there wouldn't be sufficient killing power from the Knights which could attack to overwhelm most solid infantry blocks.  Yes, they could smash through weak cannon fodder infantry and missile troops, but then regular Empire infantry formations can do that for far fewer points, so you're not really gaining much, aside from some mobility.

Investing that many points in one unit of Knights also means that you won't have enough points to invest in the support which they would need to get the job done, and you would still also have the problem of the unit being a missile and magic magnet.  How would you protect your investment?

There's nothing wrong with keeping the Knights, but I strongly suggest that you cut the unit size in half at the very least.  You could perhaps use two smaller units in conjunction with one another, or have the Knights act as a flank charge unit with infantry in position to charge from the front.  That way, you'll get much more mileage out of the Knights in my opinion.
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Offline Benis

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Re: would this 2000 pt empire list work?
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2012, 08:20:51 AM »
Hordes of heavy cavalry have several issues that makes them pretty useless:

1. It is damn expensive. Cavalry pay a premium for movement and in a horde you cannot really expect to be able to make the most use out of it and you also pay for 20 odd horse attacks that will never come into play. Also note that generally heavy cavalry tends to be overpriced by GW so you are at a handicap from the start.

2. Footprint is too big. Just try putting up the bases on a tabletop and you see what I mean, it is inherent to lead to poor positioning. You also have to worry about dangerous terrain when it comes to cavalry and that will not be a fun thing to have to roll for and avoiding dangerous terrain with such a massive unit can lead to other poor decisions.

3. The lance is easily broken. Not only do I mean that after the charge you have little real strength but also that such a massive unit can easily be tampered with, either through shooting or magic or by getting flank charges to disrupt it. Even a steadfast unit to the front of a width of 5 20 mm bases will be a sore problem given that a lot of knights on the flanks won't be able to attack them and they will most likely be stubborn. A good opponent that has a horde of his own might just reform it should he know he faces 30 knights in 10 x 3, instead showing up with a 5 x 8 unit that you will never break by a front charge.

Not to discourage your ideas but this one simply won't float unless you happen to be lucky (which can make any idea float in Warhammer). Sadly, GW has made heavy cavalry an iffy decision to begin with and trying to make a whole list out of them will just end up in an even greater disaster.

Offline nawari

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Re: would this 2000 pt empire list work?
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2012, 02:18:57 AM »
thanks again for the replies guys.

i guess i will never have my dream of a horde of knights galloping galantly towards the enemy, lances held low ready for the final charge come true. lol

both of you make valid points and i do understand why this would be a bad idea. i guess running 15 in 2 squads in ranks of 5 would be a better option.

thanks again for the help!
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Offline Benis

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Re: would this 2000 pt empire list work?
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2012, 09:38:20 AM »
I would suggest broadening them instead so that you maximise the attacks of the unit, 2 x 7 is quite alright. You run the risk of loosing the power of your back rank faster so that you cannot disrupt but disrupting with a unit that is in three ranks of cavalry bases is usually tricky too. Knights are closer to how they were historically in the era right before they started to be seriously out-phased, they are there to protect the flanks, harass the enemy's and to deal damage to enemy units, they do pay for it though and the actual need for them in this role is also limited so don't go crazy with too many units, one per flank ought to suffice.

You might want to give the Demigryphs a chance though since they are quite solid in their role and unless you fill your specials they do perform it a bit nastier than normal knights.

 


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