Topic: 6th edition

[Guildmage Aech]

So I'm hearing. GW lied on their web site and said non-GW store ship-to addresses would not ship until today for anyone. So like a fool mine's been at the store for two days but they won't give it to me until after midnight tonight. Not a good start to my 6th edition experience :-(

Don't you think you're over-reacting just a little about waiting a day to read the rules for a toy soldier game? Seriously calm down...

Particularly as it looks like being a really well written ruleset, I've not found anything in the rules yet that makes me want to kill a dolphin in rage and the effort at closing off traditional holes in the rules is really superb.

I think it's important everyone remembers the big picture instead of how it effects the army list they use right now. I have high hopes for this edition!

[The GrimSqueaker]

More that GW ships with a slightly pessimistic view as to the actual delivery time hence more of the packages arriving on time or slightly early rather than late with subsequent cries of rage quitting and how GW has ruined their lives forever.

The small but quite significant changes in these rules are most appreciated. As Hymirl said, it's looks far more than regardless of what armies you may play.

[nesbitt_bub1]

as always there are going to be armies that become worthless with a rules change.

This edition looks like it's going to punish vehicle spam, Mech assault, and 10 man horde lists.

I'll elaborate.

All vehicles now have hull points. Ranging from between 2 and 4 points. Any glancing or penetrating hit removes a point. Then penetrating hits get to do more on a table. Page 74.

This means armies that take a lot of weaker AV10-12 models will have fewer HP's and be more vulnerable to been glanced to death. There is a codex update listed as apendix II on page 410 that lists HP's.

Mech assault is ruined. Only assault vehicles can be assaulted from. So unless codexes get updates saying otherwise most vehicles in the game will prevent any sort of assault the turn you disembark. Regardless of distance moved. No longer can you park up and wait a turn to assault from safety. page 79 para 2.

This acts as balancing agent for the tougher armies that were using mech assault. But penalises the weaker units very heavily. To the point where i feel mech assault lists are unusable with a T3 army. Mech shooting will still work. But at a marginally reduced range (about 3" of range lost in the turn you disembark).

It also acts as a catalyst for TEQ landraider lists. I don't think this was an intended side effect but other rules regarding power weapons (p61) mean that this combination is not only powerful it's almost unstoppable.

any marine list using standard landraiders and terminators could be unstoppable if you can't force glancing hits on the tank so you can shoot the contents. However it does open up the possibility of tweaky lists that use grenades in a surround a tank pop it tactic. Either way this is far more of a concern than any other unit in the game atm. At least everything else has a valid counter tactic... Since most armies will be blocking up the TEQ list is going to provide the most moaned about list for a few months.

10 man horde lists.... geanestealers in 10 man, Eldar, dark eldar, tau, Orks. There is a new mechanic on page 21 under resolve overwatch. basically without numbers greater than 10 in a squad you risk not having a squad in range to charge with.... Anything take in 10 man units that don't get a save to a bolter will be affected.  Anyone using these tactic will want to read the powers of divination. Page 420. Everyone just became eldar.... In fact in 3/6 of the powers in that table you became more than eldar... and the basic power is guide. Meaning re-rolls to shooting your assaulting unit is guaranteed for a block defence list.... suddenly 20 guardians became very defensive..... But 10 marines can remove any small assaulting unit like flies from a wind-shield.

Time to start writing lists people.

[JusticeCetin]

It also acts as a catalyst for TEQ landraider lists. I don't think this was an intended side effect but other rules regarding power weapons (p61) mean that this combination is not only powerful it's almost unstoppable.

any marine list using standard landraiders and terminators could be unstoppable if you can't force glancing hits on the tank so you can shoot the contents. However it does open up the possibility of tweaky lists that use grenades in a surround a tank pop it tactic. Either way this is far more of a concern than any other unit in the game atm. At least everything else has a valid counter tactic... Since most armies will be blocking up the TEQ list is going to provide the most moaned about list for a few months.

See, from the way i saw it, this simply isn't true. Yeah so now you can't assault with Rhinos, it doesn't really mean that you will go all Termies in LRs, because a Squad of Purifiers in a rhino, while now less durable, cost half the price, and can shoot a LR out easy with Rending (as a single 6 is at least a glance) 

Also, if at 2k points the only vehicles you put on a table are 3 LRs, with the new power shooting seems to be gaining, every Tau player with broadsides and every gaurd player with Manticores (NOW WITH NEW BLAST RULES) is going to smile wide, and tear you up, since they can now easily break an LR, and then plasma you with their new improved plasma range.  Every "broken" list can be countered through bringing the right tools for hte job.  Honestly from what i have seen and read, plasma is the future, as it deals with those pesky TEQ you can't beat in assault, has greater range, and now improved At capability (because glances are doing something)

The only thing i saw that saddens me is the nerf to Holo-fields, because now eldar falcons seem far less viable, although i think Wraithlords seem really buff now, as people might bring less LCs and more ACs, giving htem that save they really need. 

[dalaran1991]

Does seem a lot like this ed is going to be heaven for vanilla style marines armies and Eldar kite & shoot armies. Those armies have basic units that do ok in shooting, quite decent at rapid fire range, and slightly acceptable in assault (I'm talking tactical marines, eldar dire avengers, chaos space marines, space wolves grey hunters etc). It will also make footslogging army more appealing (read: possible to play a game anyway you like, not having to put everything in metal boxes). And reduces the emphasis on deahthstar unit

So currently I'm happy. Let's wait and see what they give us tomorrow.

[Somekindofzombie]

In my own grubby, formerly nicotine stained fingers, I have my own personal copy of the 6th edition rules!  Wow what an enormous book!  Looks great!  Sweet dreams lads and lasses!

[JusticeCetin]

@dalaran.. i seriously hope you are right, as i seriously miss my gunline gaurd, and want to bring them back so badly, but simply cannot in the current Meta, with all those psycannons and Razorbacks around.  Hopefully i will be able to use squads of Men to win my battles now, not cars. 

[dalaran1991]

  Hopefully i will be able to use squads of Men to win my battles now, not cars. 

Which is how it should be.

Seriously though, on the fluffy side, more often than not the imperial forces don't have that ready access to vehicles, and they still kick some serious asses. Most of the fluff it's the infantry who do the dying and winning IMO, though they did bring lots of tanks for the cool factor. In 5th ed, every Guard army I saw, no matter what their fluff, background, I still have the impression I'm fighting Elysian or Steel Legions, with all that Valkyries and armor around.

And I want my marines on foot, not hiding in METAL BAWKSES!

It also make sense to me that if a LR takes 3 glancing hit from a missile launcher it will blow up! I mean, it's a ML! I love my LR, but I also hate the fact that my opponent has to redesign his list just to make sure that he is able to take out my LR. It's not fun for him nor for me. Usually the game revolves around who can take out whose big tank first.

Still a wish list though Those of you who did get the rulebook, give us a sit rep or please PM me. Would love to see if my wish list come true, but college student life is broke

[Somekindofzombie]

Well, its officially Saturday, June 30 where I am so I guess I can now comment on the 6th edition rules.  I have just been glancing, and have been very pleased.  One word I can say comparing 6th to 5th is: OPTIONS.  I think the missions seem more involved and varied than 5th.  There are warlord options, terrain options, ally options, primary and secondary objectives in missions, different set up arrangements, more night fighting.

I suppose every person can just look at one rule change say if it nerfs or buffs an army, but the attractive thing about 6th seems to be more variation.  My guess is the 40k player needs to think outside of his/her normal box, stop thinking " this is the way it was always done before," and use the wider array of options to make their army work.

All I know is that as an IG player that gets assaulted a lot, flamers look real nice (read about wall of fire).

[NightMoor]

Well it's official, Haywire is the new hotness. Swooping Hawks are finally useful for something! And AV 13 and 14 will still struggle against Glancing Hits, all vehicles are now a few glances away from being nuked. On the plus side, it's much easier for vehicles to gain some kind of cover save so hopefully they can shrug off the occasional glance.

[JusticeCetin]

Better cover saves for tanks.  So my Manticore +Camo netting 6th edition idea is starting to shape up nicely, Manticores and Gunlines... i like it!

 @DALARAN I have the Black Templar Book Helsreach, and i can tell you when Grimaldus gives that speech to the gaurd, the whole, this is all they challenge us with.  I seriously wanted to take my gaurd army, give the Honor of Cadia order, and charge headlong to certain doom!  If i can bring creed and honestly not feel like i am hurting myself, i will love 6th edition.  I don't much like Creed fluffwise, but i want to be able to use a real commander, not a sucicide Melta HQ

[surfingspider]

Sisters should do well then?

[Grand Master Lomandalis]

[gmod]Just a friendly reminder with the book being released today, that the move from "speculation" to "giving out rules" is a minor change, but one that has major differences in how the staff view it. Be careful in what is said, as we are strictly enforcing the rule about Copyright Infringement.[/gmod]

[WisdomLS]

I'm really liking the new rules set  Lots of cool little things and fixes to loopholes that used to be exploited.

A few highlights:

Pre-measuring - Much better and easier.
All vehicles are faster than before - A hovering futuristic transport vehicle can now more futher in a turn than a man holding a huge gun.
USR's - They've key-worded a huge amount of rules and consolidated them all in the BrB so there will be no more confusion between different books having slightly different rules. Lots of one we haven't heard of before as well.

My personal favourite though is the changes to dangerous terrain No more losing half a squad of terminator to a couple of unlucky dice (now they need to be really unlucky).
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Obviously there are some things I don't like, no assault out of non-assault vehicles is a bit of a pain, I dislike the new different power weapon rules (power axes seems very poor) and furious charge getting smashed with the nerfhammer is a huge hit to lots of the armies I play (orks, BA, Daemons) but half the fun of a new edition seems to be figuring out what works and what doesn't 

On that note my BA may be getting hurt by the reduction in effectiveness of feel no pain and furious charge but death company are now actually viable Rage goes from a huge weakness to a massive bonus, seems strange but I'm not complaining.

Goes to show that you need to look at all the rules together and not just single changes in a vacuum to get a feel for how things will play and how balanced they are.

Have fun all

[dalaran1991]

 

Holy crap those all sound great! My vanilla marines now could actually stand up to a BA assault then! And no more Orks screaming out of 5+ trucks to overwhelm my gunline
[gmod]Removed asking for copyright information.[/gmod]
 Suddenly my beloved tactical marines and devastators could see some real action rather than hiding in metal bawkses and claiming objective last turn 

Blast, I want the rulebook so much... Paycheck is coming till next week though 

[Heretek]

And no more Orks screaming out of 5+ trucks to overwhelm my gunline

so those Boyz will still be screaming out of their Trukks at you. That said, it's a bit harder than it used to be to assault out of a transport, given the new restrictions on disembarking from vehicles that move a certain distance. The changes to Fleet are also a bit of a pain, since it makes calling a Waaagh! somewhat underwhelming now.

[gmod]Removed response to request for copyright information.[/gmod]

[IainC]

The Codex FAQs are up!

Still no clarification on deep strike mishaps and Warp Quake in the GK codex. Stormtalons get boned as well, hope you SM players got a lot of use out of them last month...

[Unleash Mayhem]

I don't see how the Stormtalon is boned? All it means is it's a flyer and has it's own hover rule.

[IainC]

Not any more it doesn't. You ignore the WD rules for it.

[Unleash Mayhem]

I believe you misread what it says. It says ignore the Unit type entry, i.e. Fast Skimmer, and instead refer to it being a flyer