Topic: 'Ard Boyz in a trukk worth it?

[Dartron]

I don't think I've seen this anywhere, probably for a good reason, but I was wondering how viable are 'Ard Boyz in a trukk?  I'm asking because I played my first game with some trukk boyz the other day and they just evaporated to enemy fire!  Granted, I usually run two large squads near a Big Mek w/KFF and they seem nigh invulnerable able to soak up huge amounts of fire.  The trukk boyz zoomed up, I even got a cover save for it but my opponent shot it, it exploded sending burning wreckage into my nob bikers wounding them (I lost more casualties to exploding vehicles that game then shooting) and lost 4 boyz from the trukk.  Next turn they come around a corner, assault a Land Raider but only shake it.  Land Raider pulls away exposing boys to a Grey Knights squad which immediately vaporizes them with bolters.  After that the 4+ save almost seems worth it.
Another question too, how do things like burna boyz survive in the same trukks?  The only thing I would want in them is nobz, Megas and others.

Cheers

[skarmek]

How about sticking a mek with KFF inside?

I personally don't think ard boyz are worth it. The cost too much compared to normal boyz.

[Swarmish]

I sense the frustration in your boys getting relatively blown away rather easily.  I know -  I hated it too.  Hated it to the point that I converted up some 'ard boys, too.

Now, I can't speak for them in a trukk.  But I can speak for them in a 20-boy shoota mob.  The extra points spent on them is well worth it.  The last 2 games I played with them had them lasting all the way to round 5, and I always advance my boys (i consider it un-orky to hold objectives - that's what my grots are for.  Just my style  ) 

I was skeptical at first (I proxied 1st couple of games), but their resiliency sold me on them.  You just gotta have lots of other scarier options to be shot at. 

[SKEETERGOD]

You need more things for your opponent to shoot at.  A single truk will become an automatic high priority target, unless you have 5 trucks and some buggies. Then add in a wagon filled with nobs and a few lootas and presto your opponent has too much to shoot at, and your boys make it into combat just fine.

As for burnas, they do not have a transport option, so you have to buy them either a looted truk or a battle wagon to ride in.  I use a looted rhino with ram (40 points) and you have to buy it a few weapons too, so it ends up running about 55 points.  But when it rolls up to en enemy formation and 12 templates worth of wounds later it now becomes your opponents highest priority target.

[Alerian]

IMHO 'ard boys are only worth it with the Mad Dok...just because he makes them soooo much better.

You can almost purchase another boys squad for the cost of teh 'ard boys upgrade...and more boyz is always better than slightly tougher boys.

If you want to prtoect your boyz, your best bet are KFFs, Grot screens, bike screens, or just nore boyz!

[Swarmish]

IMHO 'ard boys are only worth it with the Mad Dok...just because he makes them soooo much better.

Absolutely!  4+/5+ troops anyone?

You can almost purchase another boys squad for the cost of teh 'ard boys upgrade...and more boyz is always better than slightly tougher boys.

I will agree 100% here.  'Ard boys can be a points sink, but they can still fill a niche quite well, however.

If you want to prtoect your boyz, your best bet are KFFs, Grot screens, bike screens, or just nore boyz!

Bingo on grots!!  Those little bullet catchers (that a lot of people here seem to loathe) work wonders.  For 60-ish points you can provide 4++ cover to a decent portion to your army.  You do have to use clever use of movement to get the best from them however, because they could get in the way  Also, it's amazing to me that in the last few games, players will actually spend time shooting at the grots instead of the meaner stuff behind them. 

Bottom line:  Proxy is your friend.  Try them out first before going through any konversions.  They may work into your playstyle. 

[Gutstikk]

Bingo on grots!!  Those little bullet catchers (that a lot of people here seem to loathe)

I believe since 5th ed began, the combination of cover improvements, go to ground and troops only scoring made these an overnight superstar with most of us here. Not all of us use them [depending on theme of army and playstyle], but I rarely see anyone complain about grots anymore. Your points about them are all pretty spot-on though.

Ard Boyz definitely have their uses, but as mentioned earlier, they work best when you can get the most out of their innate durability. Vehicles are almost always worth consideration for ard boyz, grotsnik's not a bad idea [though I think more for the FNP than the option to kit em with cybork bodies].

[Alerian]

yeah...when I recommended the Mad Doc, it had nothing to do with spending additional points on Cybork...I was pointing out that 30 4+Armor FNP Boyz that score are just brutal (or 19 + the Doc in a BW)

I have tried to make 'ard boyz work, just because they look cool on paper, but generally speaking they are a waste of points w/o the Doc.  Spending those points are more boys/nob upgrades is usually a better bet.

[Swarmish]

Bingo on grots!!  Those little bullet catchers (that a lot of people here seem to loathe)

I believe since 5th ed began, the combination of cover improvements, go to ground and troops only scoring made these an overnight superstar with most of us here. Not all of us use them [depending on theme of army and playstyle], but I rarely see anyone complain about grots anymore. Your points about them are all pretty spot-on though.

Ard Boyz definitely have their uses, but as mentioned earlier, they work best when you can get the most out of their innate durability. Vehicles are almost always worth consideration for ard boyz, grotsnik's not a bad idea [though I think more for the FNP than the option to kit em with cybork bodies].

Loathe was maybe a strong word, but in most of the lists here (looking back at the last couple dozen or so) grots seem to be missing from them.  So I assume that either they aren't liked, or people feel they are useless. 

And yeah, suggesting cybork over FNP was an oversight on my part... 16 pt boys - yeesh!

I will let you guys know how my 'ard boys do this Saturday.  I have a 1250 pt. match against a troop-heavy SM list.  He mixes it up sometimes with the addition of a whirlwind, rhinos, drop pods, and attack bikes. 
 

[Saracenar]

Loathe was maybe a strong word, but in most of the lists here (looking back at the last couple dozen or so) grots seem to be missing from them.  So I assume that either they aren't liked, or people feel they are useless. 

I use Grots! They do come in handy, as bullet shields and objective holders. I find they are generally worth the points spent on them.

As for burnas, they do not have a transport option, so you have to buy them either a looted truk or a battle wagon to ride in.

Not quite true. Well, they have no transport option, but you can also buy a trukk for a small enough boyz unit or a nobz unit and give it to them.

Personally, I have not actually used 'Ard Boyz, but since they have to be a small unit to have a trukk, then it might be an idea to make them more durable, for last minute objective snatching/contesting.

[Gutstikk]

Burna boyz in a transport are terribly destructive. They are my "most amusing unit" at the moment. Whenever possible I've been including them. They are no good vs most monstrous creatures, but we have plenty of answers for monstrous creatures elsewhere in the codex. Depending on enemy deployment of units you can flush a couple gaunt blocks with a single squad by aiming at something behind them, you can easily wipe out a terminator team if they stay in their transport [since all the templates can fire from the same point, meaning they can all cover the same number of models]. Simply tank-shock the enemy unit first, then blaze away. I have managed to score 49 wounds on an enemy unit with the burna boys before. It's pretty terrifying.

[dwfwarrior]

i run burna boys in my BW and they are simply amazing. i personally do not feel ard boys re worth the points with or without a trukk

[Dartron]

I guess it's just not worth it to have a single trukk running around.  Maybe I'll scrap it and use the leftovers to make a Quad Boss!

[Gutstikk]

It's not that a single trukk is bad - you can throw it in reserves and use it to reclaim objectives near your board edge at the game end. That's actually a pretty good use of a single trukk. It's when you want to be offensive that the single trukk doesn't work too well.

Also, ard boyz in a single trukk entering from reserves later in the game is nice because that's when you really appreciate that added resilience. Most of the other units that would bypass their armor during shooting have already been locked down by then, and in combat they aren't slouches.

[Dartron]

That's it!  I sometimes forget about the Reserves rule and how useful it can be in keeping my delicate, but highly mobile units safe in later turns.  Keeping a load of trukk boys in reserve could be really useful in claiming last minute objectives and allow me to place my trukk in a position where it's not going to be targeted by lots of ML's, LC's, and heavy weapons of the other races.

Thanks Gutstikk