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Offline Wyddr

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Help me pick a faction!
« on: September 4, 2018, 09:01:10 PM »
There are a metric beslubberton of factions in AoS, and I can't freaking decide.

So, background here: In the coming months, I'm going to start investing in AoS. I've got a pair of my friends interested (Uncle Tungsten and Roboknee) and, so far, both of them have expressed interest in collecting Kharadron Overlords (because flying steampunk dwarves are the BEST!).

So, I want to pick a faction that is thematically interesting with the Overlords. I also want to pick a faction that is fun to play and not totally hopeless. Odds of me bringing it to a tourney are small, but I don't want an army that's terrible, either.

I've kinda/sorta narrowed it down to a few options, and I'm interested to hear your thoughts. In no particular order, they are:

The Nighthaunt
They've got a spiffy new book and spiffy new models! An army of ghoooosts! Boo!

Pros: I love the models and I think the fluff is cool. They are current and very good.
Cons: They might be a bit too good (?)--like, are they just gonna roll right over the Overlords? Kinda seems like they might. Also, dwarves Vs ghosts is just a...weird matchup.

Beasts of Chaos
Granted, the new book isn't out yet, but I've always like the idea of these guys.

Pros: Sky-dwarves raiding beast-infested wastes is a cool idea. Love the Gors as models.
Cons: They seem kinda one-note as far as gameplay is concerned--mob up and charge really fast. I'm not crazy about a lot of models in the range, either. Also the prospect of collecting so large a horde army...shudder...

Slaves to Darkness
Chaos Warriors! One of the best kits ever!

Pros: I dig the models a lot, the theme works out (dwarves raiding chaos strongholds for ur-gold), and they seem pretty strong.
Cons: Also a one-note playstyle? Run and kill them with axes, right? Am I gonna do something besides charge straight at the bad guys?

Swifthawk Agents
Nobody plays these guys at all, do they? But they're some kind of elven secret agents! The Elven Pony Express?

Pros: We get to do the War of the Beard all over again--flying chariots versus airships! This range has some of my favorite models of all time--the Seaguard (sorry--Spireguard!), the Reavers, the Griffon, the Flying chariots, the Shadow Warriors!
Cons: I'm fairly certain they suck very badly. They also have no book and no battalions and no wizards (though I could certainly borrow one from another faction).

Ironjawz
Elite, armored orks? Weird.

Pros: Dwarves Vs Orks always plays well, they seem pretty strong, and they have a bunch of options.
Cons: Playstyle seems weirdly similar to 40k orks. The paintscheme GW uses for the models is eye-gougingly terrible so I can't tell if I like the basic models or not. They seem very slow.

Weirdly, I'm leaning Swifthawk Agents right now. What do you guys think? 
« Last Edit: September 4, 2018, 09:03:34 PM by Wyddr »

Offline Lord of Winter and War

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Re: Help me pick a faction!
« Reply #1 on: September 4, 2018, 09:43:28 PM »
I've been playing AoS a lot these days, and been to a few events. I'll try and answer your questions as best I can.


So, out of all of those, I have to strongly discourage the Swifthawks Agents. Great models, but they are fairly terrible. You'll win some games, but it'll be a struggle. Also, most of the models in the range you can't buy except in the discontinued 'Spire of Dawn' box. There are worse factions to play, but not many.


Also, the Swifthawks lore is that they are literally the mailmen of the mortal realms, kinda lame.


Of the others, I think all have merit. Keep in mind, AoS is a melee game, so pretty much all factions are combat-focused. Armies which rely on shooting really struggle right now.


Quote
The Nighthaunt
They've got a spiffy new book and spiffy new models! An army of ghoooosts! Boo!

Pros: I love the models and I think the fluff is cool. They are current and very good.
Cons: They might be a bit too good (?)--like, are they just gonna roll right over the Overlords? Kinda seems like they might. Also, dwarves Vs ghosts is just a...weird matchup.

Nighthaunt are good, but I think they are good because they are a meta-busting army. Most folks focus are taking units with lots of rend, for dealing with armies like Stormcast. Nighthaunts don't give a beslubber about rend. The best way to kill Nighthaunts is with horde-killing weapons, which folks often don't take.

They do have fantastic models, and a lot of options. I think they are best as a Horde army, but at least they are an easy to paint horde army.



Quote
Beasts of Chaos
Granted, the new book isn't out yet, but I've always like the idea of these guys.

Pros: Sky-dwarves raiding beast-infested wastes is a cool idea. Love the Gors as models.
Cons: They seem kinda one-note as far as gameplay is concerned--mob up and charge really fast. I'm not crazy about a lot of models in the range, either. Also the prospect of collecting so large a horde army...shudder...


Keep in mind, this book will also include Monsters of Chaos, Warherd, and Thunderscorn, along with the Brayherd. So, there could be potentially multiple army builds. But, as the only wizard in the faction is in Brayherd, you'll still want some of that.

Hard to say anything though, as the book isn't out yet. This is the first multi-faction book, so I have no idea how it'll work.

Quote
Slaves to Darkness
Chaos Warriors! One of the best kits ever!

Pros: I dig the models a lot, the theme works out (dwarves raiding chaos strongholds for ur-gold), and they seem pretty strong.
Cons: Also a one-note playstyle? Run and kill them with axes, right? Am I gonna do something besides charge straight at the bad guys?


I think this army has a lot of great options. It has fast objective grabbers/distraction units in Chariots/Maurader Horsemen, Chaos Warriors are one of the most durable battleline in the game, and their heros are tough and great support. Sorcerer Lords are arguably the best wizard in chaos. They have a few interesting battalions in the Chaos book. Their allegence abilities are sort of meh, as well as the artifacts, but at least the Realm artifacts mitigate that a bit.


Marauders, although terribly models, are one of the best horde units in the game. Also, the army can be easily played as Maggotkin of Nurgle, Disciples of Tzeentch, or Blades of Khorne if you want to mix things up.



Quote
Ironjawz
Elite, armored orks? Weird.

Pros: Dwarves Vs Orks always plays well, they seem pretty strong, and they have a bunch of options.
Cons: Playstyle seems weirdly similar to 40k orks. The paintscheme GW uses for the models is eye-gougingly terrible so I can't tell if I like the basic models or not. They seem very slow.

This is the only army you chose with literally no ranged attacks. However, they are extreamly fast. It's not hard to get +4 to charge distances with this army. 'Ard boys are very tough models, but the army is fairly slow otherwise.

The models are great, just check out google image searches. They have a great wizard too, with a fantastic spell, and is also good at casting endless spells (like the Chromatic Cogs, which you will want).

Probably best played as a horde army. Swamp the board, charge quickly, and outscore your opponent on VP's before they can fight out of their deployment zone.


If you want to compete, Anything but Swifthawks can do well. If I were thinking of a 5 round event, I think Nighthaunts could win 4-5 games, and slaves, and Ironjaws could win 2-3. If you're experianced with the faction, and play well, you could maybe win 4/5 games. I think that Ironjaws and Slaves to Darkness might struggle agaisnt the top armies in the game. But, Slaves to Darkness have some of the best mortal wound defense in the game.

Swifthawks will not do well at Tourniments. You will rarely win games. To be fair, Khardadron Overlords are probably in a worse place than all the factions you listed, besides Swifthawks. They are struggling hard being a shooting army, in a melee game.

Really, the choice comes to you. It'll be an army you have to build and paint, so I wouldn't base your choice entirely on how well the army can do. Especially as Ironjaws and Slaves will eventually get updated battletomes. I think all of those choices can be fun, and put up good fights. Buying Swifthawks I think will be a waste of money, unless you really want to play them, and try to do as well as you can with a handicap.

I'll happily answer any AoS based question you have.



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Offline Wyddr

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Re: Help me pick a faction!
« Reply #2 on: September 4, 2018, 10:17:24 PM »
Shame about Swifthawks--I really dig those models. They do seem almost impossible to track down, though. Lame.

Right now, Ironjawz seem like more fun than Beasts, Slaves, or Nighthaunt. I'm going to wait until the new Beasts book drops, though.

Offline Lord of Winter and War

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Re: Help me pick a faction!
« Reply #3 on: September 4, 2018, 10:36:40 PM »
Shame about Swifthawks--I really dig those models. They do seem almost impossible to track down, though. Lame.

Right now, Ironjawz seem like more fun than Beasts, Slaves, or Nighthaunt. I'm going to wait until the new Beasts book drops, though.

Yeah, the Swifthawks range is pretty limited. It's all plastic, but you can't buy about half the range. Unless you trawl through eBay.

Your best bet is to wait until the beast of chaos book drops, and then decide.

I do recommend in the meantime picking up the Age of Sigmar core book, as the background and lore in there might inspire you too. There is something in there for every faction.
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Re: Help me pick a faction!
« Reply #4 on: September 5, 2018, 05:12:46 AM »
I would recommend waiting for the Beasts of Chaos book to be published before deciding anything.  One of the reasons why I'm holding back on Nighthaunt, which I was tempted to get into, was that I want to see what GW decides to do with Soulblight before I make any decisions.  It's always better to wait with GW, I find, until all of the factions that you are interested in have the same tier of book, so that you can make valid comparisons.

If you do decide to play Nighthaunt, I would be happy for you though.  It would mean that I could read all your battle reports and not have to collect them myself :D.
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Offline Lord of Winter and War

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Re: Help me pick a faction!
« Reply #5 on: September 5, 2018, 06:59:52 AM »
I would recommend waiting for the Beasts of Chaos book to be published before deciding anything.  One of the reasons why I'm holding back on Nighthaunt, which I was tempted to get into, was that I want to see what GW decides to do with Soulblight before I make any decisions.  It's always better to wait with GW, I find, until all of the factions that you are interested in have the same tier of book, so that you can make valid comparisons.

If you do decide to play Nighthaunt, I would be happy for you though.  It would mean that I could read all your battle reports and not have to collect them myself :D.


I don't think you'll see a soulblight book, as they are part of Legions of Nagash. They have Allegence abilities, and their own artifacts and command traits in that book.

Their units are very solid too. I just wish the bloodknights were not an expensive finecast kit. 
« Last Edit: September 5, 2018, 07:24:30 AM by Killersquid »
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Offline Wyddr

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Re: Help me pick a faction!
« Reply #6 on: September 5, 2018, 08:59:25 AM »
The Core Book is in the mail!

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Offline Lord of Winter and War

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Re: Help me pick a faction!
« Reply #7 on: September 5, 2018, 09:15:11 AM »
The Core Book is in the mail!

It's really a fantastic book. I had loads of fun reading through all the lore in the book. Made me inspired to start more armies though ha ha.
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Offline magenb

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Re: Help me pick a faction!
« Reply #8 on: September 5, 2018, 05:57:11 PM »
Ironjawz
Elite, armored orks? Weird.

Pros: Dwarves Vs Orks always plays well, they seem pretty strong, and they have a bunch of options.
Cons: Playstyle seems weirdly similar to 40k orks. The paintscheme GW uses for the models is eye-gougingly terrible so I can't tell if I like the basic models or not. They seem very slow.

IronJaws have the IronFist battalion that lets units make a D6 move in the hero phase on top of their normal movement (can't run but can charge). Additionally They get battle trait - Mighty Destroyers also lets some units more in the hero phase as well.

So you can get some speed out of them :)

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Re: Help me pick a faction!
« Reply #9 on: September 6, 2018, 08:40:59 AM »
Yeah, I've been reading that they can go pretty damned fast!  :o

I've also seen some paintjobs that didn't look terrible (seriously, why would the GW studio paint them in a detail-obliterating yellow? WHY?), so I'm leaning that way.

They look like a lot of fun, not too model intensive, and setting up combined charges and stuff looks tactically challenging. I think the Overlords could make it tough for me, too, with all that shooting.

Well, maybe. I really don't know.

Offline Lord of Winter and War

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Re: Help me pick a faction!
« Reply #10 on: September 6, 2018, 11:27:20 AM »
You can play Iron Jaws as an elite army, but I think they play strongest when built around a strong core of 'Ard Boys.

50-60 'Ard Boys are very hard to shift, and will be a solid foundation for the other units to support. Also, they are not too many points, especially when you take a full sized unit for the points discount. 

I feel that trying to elite them out, with their low bravery, could prove a challenge to play.

I also think you're over estimating how good shooting is, this is not 40k. Shooting isn't great. Your biggest concern with shooting, is your heros being shot to death.
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Re: Help me pick a faction!
« Reply #11 on: September 6, 2018, 05:52:52 PM »
I also think you're over estimating how good shooting is, this is not 40k. Shooting isn't great. Your biggest concern with shooting, is your heros being shot to death.

Shooting isn't very effective in AOS, limited range, generally stuff that can be taken in volume has a low chance of causing wounds and doesn't rend. Shooting at Hero's is generally speaking a -1 to hit and they have good saving throws, so not really likely to do anything at all. Kind of better off using spells to nuke hero's.

Shooting is helpful when paired with a tar pit unit, since they can shoot into combat you can help whittle them down. 

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Re: Help me pick a faction!
« Reply #12 on: September 6, 2018, 06:05:44 PM »
I also think you're over estimating how good shooting is, this is not 40k. Shooting isn't great. Your biggest concern with shooting, is your heros being shot to death.

Shooting isn't very effective in AOS, limited range, generally stuff that can be taken in volume has a low chance of causing wounds and doesn't rend. Shooting at Hero's is generally speaking a -1 to hit and they have good saving throws, so not really likely to do anything at all. Kind of better off using spells to nuke hero's.

Shooting is helpful when paired with a tar pit unit, since they can shoot into combat you can help whittle them down.

Exactly! Unless you're Clan Skyre, and your shooting doesn't roll to hit and does mortal wounds muah ha ha! I kill characters all the time with my Warp Lighting Cannons, it's all they're good for.
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Offline Myen'Tal

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Re: Help me pick a faction!
« Reply #13 on: September 6, 2018, 10:06:41 PM »
I would also wait for the Beasts of Chaos book since it is so close to release. That being said, I am a fan of the nighthaunt, because their aesthetic is so neat and also they have some weight to push around on the tabletop. Ironjawz do seem quite fun to learn how to play though, and I love the new models exclusive to the Ironjawz too. Even the Ardboyz still look really great in spite of their age.

I think both would be a solid pick, though I won't count out the beasties either, I think there's a lot riding on their battletome, because it will show us how future factions might be handled and what we can expect from them.

Also, the Nova Open trailer for the Realm of Chaos definitely hints at new incoming Khorne and Slaanesh models, which promises to be cool, but there's isn't a time frame on the release.
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Offline Wyddr

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Re: Help me pick a faction!
« Reply #14 on: September 7, 2018, 10:15:29 AM »
Yeah, I'm definitely waiting on the Beasts of Chaos release before I make a final determination. I'm getting the Core Book hopefully soon and I expect I'll pick up the Ironjawz Battletome shortly after that.

I have always wanted to collect a Slaanesh army, yeah, but I kinda have always wanted to go Slaaneshi beasts rather than daemons or mortals.

Ironjawz are in the lead right now just because I (1) love the fluff, (2) like the models a LOT (once I saw them un-yellowed), and (3) I'll have to buy and paint fewer models than if I went Beasts.

We'll see, though. There might be something in the Beasts of Chaos book that makes me have to have it.

Side note: As I'm a big fan of giants, what are the general thoughts on Gargants? It seems an allied Destruction Gargant would fit thematically with the Ironjawz pretty well, the model is pretty cool, and it seems fun. Are they any good?

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Re: Help me pick a faction!
« Reply #15 on: September 7, 2018, 12:01:00 PM »
Am I too late?  :D

It is a good idea to wait and see how BoC pans out, but it seems to me that you're liking the idea of Ironjawz!  I've played with them (on loan) and they are great fun.  Easy to learn too!

Gargants are, apparently, not that great I've heard.  But they are fluffy, so don't let that put you off.  ;D

Oh, and to address another point from your first post, yes, the nighthaunt can roll over the Overlords.  Quite easily, in fact.  Been on the receiving end of it.  ;D

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Re: Help me pick a faction!
« Reply #16 on: September 7, 2018, 01:20:13 PM »
Gargants are on paper pretty terrible, but are one of only 2-3 units in the game which can kill specific models.

This can be really huge in breaking units out of coherency, as if a unit is split out of coherency at the end of a turn, then the owning player has to kill models until no models are outside 1"

If the gargant is in the he middle of a thinly spread unit of 30 models, and stuffs the middle model in his pants, it'll cause that large unit to loose 13-15 Moore models until no models are out of coherency. It's a bit of a 'gotcha' trick, but can be game winning. Not a trick you'll easily pull more than once.

But, this ignores all saves and after damage prevention rolls, so it's great against spooky ghosts. Just fill your pants with ghosts.

Otherwise, gargantans are not at all good.
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Offline Wyddr

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Re: Help me pick a faction!
« Reply #17 on: September 7, 2018, 01:23:45 PM »
But, this ignores all saves and after damage prevention rolls, so it's great against spooky ghosts. Just fill your pants with ghosts.

If you don't want me to get a gargant, conjuring up an image of filling my giant pants with ghosts is not how to do it.

Now I want one.

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Re: Help me pick a faction!
« Reply #18 on: September 7, 2018, 02:16:46 PM »
But, this ignores all saves and after damage prevention rolls, so it's great against spooky ghosts. Just fill your pants with ghosts.

Simpsons did it:



But seriously, you could take a Gargant if you balance it out with big blocks of Ardboyz.  The Gargant could act as a distraction at least, drawing enemy fire away from your actual important units.

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Re: Help me pick a faction!
« Reply #19 on: September 7, 2018, 04:49:33 PM »
But, this ignores all saves and after damage prevention rolls, so it's great against spooky ghosts. Just fill your pants with ghosts.

If you don't want me to get a gargant, conjuring up an image of filling my giant pants with ghosts is not how to do it.

Now I want one.
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